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Part L compliance

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  • 21-03-2018 6:50pm
    #1
    Nelly2018
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭


    Wondering can someone help please. We have built a house three years ago and trying now to get the paperwork completed with the architect however we have been advised by the BER guy our house is coming in as an A rated house however falling short on Part L compliance by 5% and therefore we cannot get a cert of compliance. We have a mortgage on our house and the title deeds have gone back to the bank without any certs.

    We were initially advised that a 30 tube solar system and oil heating would suffice however we are now been told we must also put up pv panels ( which i believe may be doubling up with the solar panels already there to heat the water) and a wood burning stove in order to comply. Our house is around 2800 sq ft.

    My question is what if we let this lie and dont sort it? The fact we already have the solar panels does this mean that the panels were never going to comply with the renewable criteria and therefore we were ill advised?

    Are there any other renewable options as our Ber guy has not given us any other ones. My architect has advised it should be sorted however what happens if its not?

    Thanks for any feedback.


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    #2
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Who done the original preliminary BER assessment during or prior to construction?


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    #3
    Nelly2018
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Nelly2018


    kceire wrote: »
    Who done the original preliminary BER assessment during or prior to construction?

    The guy that done the original provisional ber wasnt able to get us into the 10% renewable rating at the end and i had been back and forth to him over the past year to try and rectify, eventually losing patience, So i spoke to our architect and he advised we should switch to another ber guy which we did and now he is recommending these pv panels in addition to what we have. I just dont know what to do now. These pv panels are costing an extra 4000eur to put in, but they are of no use to us as solars already heating water and we both work so wouldnt be able to avail of the electricity generated as we wouldnt be at home so we would not benefit from it.


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    #4
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,762 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Nelly2018 wrote: »
    These pv panels are costing an extra 4000eur to put in

    How many panels is he telling you to put in? That sounds like an absurd amount for a few panels for compliance.


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    #5
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Nelly2018 wrote: »
    The guy that done the original provisional ber wasnt able to get us into the 10% renewable rating at the end and i had been back and forth to him over the past year to try and rectify, eventually losing patience, So i spoke to our architect and he advised we should switch to another ber guy which we did and now he is recommending these pv panels in addition to what we have. I just dont know what to do now. These pv panels are costing an extra 4000eur to put in, but they are of no use to us as solars already heating water and we both work so wouldnt be able to avail of the electricity generated as we wouldnt be at home so we would not benefit from it.

    What I don’t understand is how you got to this stage without compliance.
    The pre lim assessment sets out what you need. You don’t commence works until you know what you need to comply.


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    #6
    Nelly2018
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Nelly2018


    kceire wrote: »
    What I don’t understand is how you got to this stage without compliance.
    The pre lim assessment sets out what you need. You don’t commence works until you know what you need to comply.

    The pv quoted was for a 1.5kw. Do we have any other option other than putting it in now then? What happens if we dont comply? Do we get no certs what soever. Whos fault is it? It is the original ber guy who has washed his hands of it all?


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    #7
    Dudda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Dudda


    What type of heating do you have and what demand does it have? Could you switch out the oil or whatever it is for an Air Source Heat pump?


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    #8
    Nelly2018
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Nelly2018


    Dudda wrote: »
    What type of heating do you have and what demand does it have? Could you switch out the oil or whatever it is for an Air Source Heat pump?

    Dont think thats an option as would be very expensive and our current heating would be dormant then.


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    #9
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Nelly2018 wrote: »
    The guy that done the original provisional ber wasnt able to get us into the 10% renewable rating at the end and i had been back and forth to him over the past year to try and rectify, eventually losing patience, So i spoke to our architect and he advised we should switch to another ber guy which we did and now he is recommending these pv panels in addition to what we have. I just dont know what to do now. These pv panels are costing an extra 4000eur to put in, but they are of no use to us as solars already heating water and we both work so wouldnt be able to avail of the electricity generated as we wouldnt be at home so we would not benefit from it.

    as queried above.....
    you started the build without knowing what specification you needed to comply with Part L.

    who told you a 30 tube system would suffice? did that person carry out a preliminary DEAP assessment to check this?


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    #10
    Nelly2018
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Nelly2018


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    as queried above.....
    you started the build without knowing what specification you needed to comply with Part L.

    who told you a 30 tube system would suffice? did that person carry out a preliminary DEAP assessment to check this?

    We had a meeting with architect before the build and confirmed what heating system was being put in place and it was confirmed this was ok and should pass. However now we are been told it cant comply and are being told by the architect its the ber guys fault and we have to recify it.


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    #11
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Nelly2018 wrote: »
    We had a meeting with architect before the build and confirmed what heating system was being put in place and it was confirmed this was ok and should pass. However now we are been told it cant comply and are being told by the architect its the ber guys fault and we have to recify it.

    "should pass" ?? any architect with DEAP knowledge should know that 30 tubes on a 2800 sq ft house wouldnt come close.

    as the architect here was the professional i would put the blame squarely on their shoulders for allowing you to commence the build without know EXACTLY what specification was required to pass Part L.

    also, to be honest, the BER guy telling you what doesnt meet regulations is a complete waste of time... im sure you were engaging him to tell you what DOES meet, not what doesnt.


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    #12
    Nelly2018
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Nelly2018


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    "should pass" ?? any architect with DEAP knowledge should know that 30 tubes on a 2800 sq ft house wouldnt come close.

    as the architect here was the professional i would put the blame squarely on their shoulders for allowing you to commence the build without know EXACTLY what specification was required to pass Part L.

    also, to be honest, the BER guy telling you what doesnt meet regulations is a complete waste of time... im sure you were engaging him to tell you what DOES meet, not what doesnt.

    Yes architect doesnt seem to want to take the blame, he is very professional though and we were delighted with everything else he done. Hes blaming the initial ber guy so we got a new ber guy as per his instruction and this new guy is now recommending pv panels and wood burning stove to meet the requirements. Do you know if we have the option of not doing any of this? What happens if we just leave it? We are very happy in the house and plan on being here for a long time but will we run into problems down the line if we ever decide to sell do you know? Thanks for all the advice!!


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    #13
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Nelly2018 wrote: »
    ... and this new guy is now recommending pv panels and wood burning stove to meet the requirements. Do you know if we have the option of not doing any of this? What happens if we just leave it? We are very happy in the house and plan on being here for a long time but will we run into problems down the line if we ever decide to sell do you know? Thanks for all the advice!! ...

    I dont know the legalilty of all these,sorry to hear about your troubles.
    Thats why i simportant all to be agreed adn signed off ...

    Can i suggest to wait until,accordign to some rumours,we may get some incentive / grants to install solar PVs,well, we hope some time this year.
    A 2Kw system,6x330W panels will cost around €2-3k and that should give you back €500 per 1Kw -> €500 x 2 = €1,000 back.
    I'm sure that price will be increased with another installer / supplier rip off then but at least you may be able to sort out the issue "today".


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    #14
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,177 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Seems strange that they would be recommending PV panels. If you actually want PV panels you're faced with a ferocious uphill struggle to get them connected to the grid in a legit manner and then you end up donating power to the grid since the feed in tariff is kind of in limbo.


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    #15
    Nelly2018
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Nelly2018


    rolion wrote: »
    I dont know the legalilty of all these,sorry to hear about your troubles.
    Thats why i simportant all to be agreed adn signed off ...

    Can i suggest to wait until,accordign to some rumours,we may get some incentive / grants to install solar PVs,well, we hope some time this year.
    A 2Kw system,6x330W panels will cost around €2-3k and that should give you back €500 per 1Kw -> €500 x 2 = €1,000 back.
    I'm sure that price will be increased with another installer / supplier rip off then but at least you may be able to sort out the issue "today".

    Thanks yes so really have to sort it then. Wonder would we qualify for a grant if we had to do it in the first place in line with planning though


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    #16
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Seems strange that they would be recommending PV panels. If you actually want PV panels you're faced with a ferocious uphill struggle to get them connected to the grid in a legit manner and then you end up donating power to the grid since the feed in tariff is kind of in limbo.

    you wouldnt do that..... the output required to meet teh rest of the renewable regs would be so low as to be uneconomical to connect to grid. Youd just set it up to be used in the dwelling on a "use it or lose it" basis.

    to the OP

    the obvious low cost solution is to install another 30 tube system.
    i assume you have a 300 liter cylinder?


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    #17
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,177 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    you wouldnt do that..... the output required to meet teh rest of the renewable regs would be so low as to be uneconomical to connect to grid. Youd just set it up to be used in the dwelling on a "use it or lose it" basis.

    to the OP

    the obvious low cost solution is to install another 30 tube system.
    i assume you have a 300 liter cylinder?

    how exactly would you "lose it" though? Battery system with no dump load?


  • Options
    #18
    Nelly2018
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Nelly2018


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    you wouldnt do that..... the output required to meet teh rest of the renewable regs would be so low as to be uneconomical to connect to grid. Youd just set it up to be used in the dwelling on a "use it or lose it" basis.

    to the OP

    the obvious low cost solution is to install another 30 tube system.
    i assume you have a 300 liter cylinder?

    Can i not sell the house if i dont comply. I seem to be on limbo and dont know how to rectify this. We done everything we were told to do all through the process.


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    #19
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    how exactly would you "lose it" though? Battery system with no dump load?

    Nah, just use a divertor switch to heat your immersion


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    #20
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Nelly2018 wrote: »
    Can i not sell the house if i dont comply. I seem to be on limbo and dont know how to rectify this. We done everything we were told to do all through the process.


    You'd be selling a sub standard product, and the sale price would be reduced by at least the cost of bringing it to standard.

    I feel for you because you've been badly advised and no one wants to take responsibility for that.

    Your architect should not have allowed you to commence without knowing EXACTLY what specification you needed to comply


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    #21
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Seems strange that they would be recommending PV panels. If you actually want PV panels you're faced with a ferocious uphill struggle to get them connected to the grid in a legit manner and then you end up donating power to the grid since the feed in tariff is kind of in limbo.

    There’s no ferocious uphill struggle to get connected. You just need and inverter that’s is compliant with EN 50348

    https://www.esbnetworks.ie/help-centre/connect-a-micro-generator


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    #22
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Seems strange that they would be recommending PV panels. If you actually want PV panels you're faced with a ferocious uphill struggle to get them connected to the grid in a legit manner and then you end up donating power to the grid since the feed in tariff is kind of in limbo.

    There’s no ferocious uphill struggle to get connected. You just need and inverter that’s is compliant with EN 50348

    https://www.esbnetworks.ie/help-centre/connect-a-micro-generator


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