Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

$ausage$ · 05-03-2018 12:09PM

What would I like Ulster to do?

You see that in its self is the issue. We as clubs should not have to ask. The clubs (all be it dublin ones lately) create their future. Yes the schools are the main influx but that is narrowing down an already small group of players. When is the last time you heard of a guy given a shot at say 26-28? Never! I personally have watched some Ulster AIL teams this season that could have won against Ulster senior side. And I am not being flippant here I really mean that. Is there no Ulster scouting at all in the club game? I can think of 2 players who could do a job at ulster in just one team who have not gone past u20's im guessing if even that far. (I am not going to name names)

Dan Soper
Why not give him the chance, sure he pretty much has the same CV as Mcgloc had when he got the job?

**Edit
I would also like to add, why do ulster coaches/academy not see it working in say a club and go and ask what they did? is it just big heads don't want to or what? Some Ulster clubs can produce players year after year.... surely its not all down to the water and good spuds?

Former Former · 05-03-2018 12:20PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Slightly unfair to single out Farrell and Arnold. Both were stuck behind international or future international players and game time was going to be limited.
Olding, Marshall, Cave, Payne, McCloskey were ahead in the pecking order and unfortunately 7 into 2 just doesn't go.

I wasn't really singling them out as such and understand why they left, Farrell in particular, just noting that there's a bit of an irony in that the guys who moved on are in the Ireland squad while the players who would have kept them out of the Ulster team can't get a look-in with Joe.

To make things worse, Payne is likely finished, Olding is TBD and Cave is out of contract at the end of the season, so Ulster may end up with a bit of a crisis at centre.

errlloyd · 05-03-2018 12:27PM

Former Former wrote: »

I wasn't really singling them out as such and understand why they left, Farrell in particular, just noting that there's a bit of an irony in that the guys who moved on are in the Ireland squad while the players who would have kept them out of the Ulster team can't get a look-in with Joe.

To make things worse, Payne is likely finished, Olding is TBD and Cave is out of contract at the end of the season, so Ulster may end up with a bit of a crisis at centre.

Sure they can just push one of their many outhalves into the "second playmaker role"

Utah_Saint · 05-03-2018 12:35PM

Former Former wrote: »

mfceiling wrote: »

Slightly unfair to single out Farrell and Arnold. Both were stuck behind international or future international players and game time was going to be limited.
Olding, Marshall, Cave, Payne, McCloskey were ahead in the pecking order and unfortunately 7 into 2 just doesn't go.

I wasn't really singling them out as such and understand why they left, Farrell in particular, just noting that there's a bit of an irony in that the guys who moved on are in the Ireland squad while the players who would have kept them out of the Ulster team can't get a look-in with Joe.

To make things worse, Payne is likely finished, Olding is TBD and Cave is out of contract at the end of the season, so Ulster may end up with a bit of a crisis at centre.

It is ironic but the current batch of available ulster centres are woefully out of form in a terrible team. I think Farrell is decent but maybe not as good as some believe. I still think McCloskey and Marshall are better when on form. Olding irrespective of things outside rugby had potential to be a star but I doubt that will happen now. We have a few very good prospects coming through in Hume and Curtis.

Edit: and another giant Centre in Butler. Although not sure how good he is.

The Lost Sheep · 05-03-2018 01:16PM

$ausage$ wrote: »

What would I like Ulster to do?

You see that in its self is the issue. We as clubs should not have to ask. The clubs (all be it dublin ones lately) create their future. Yes the schools are the main influx but that is narrowing down an already small group of players. When is the last time you heard of a guy given a shot at say 26-28? Never! I personally have watched some Ulster AIL teams this season that could have won against Ulster senior side. And I am not being flippant here I really mean that. Is there no Ulster scouting at all in the club game? I can think of 2 players who could do a job at ulster in just one team who have not gone past u20's im guessing if even that far. (I am not going to name names)

Dan Soper
Why not give him the chance, sure he pretty much has the same CV as Mcgloc had when he got the job?

**Edit
I would also like to add, why do ulster coaches/academy not see it working in say a club and go and ask what they did? is it just big heads don't want to or what? Some Ulster clubs can produce players year after year.... surely its not all down to the water and good spuds?

Ive seen enough of many ulster clubs over the years and theyre not that good. Dublin clubs are helped by the schools in Dublin/Leinster yes but also by huge numbers moving to the capital from around the country.
Look at most Dublin ail sides team sheets and you will see plenty of connacht/munster born players who moved for work
When people say scouting what do you want? All AIL games are videod and IRFU have them for refereeing development and other purposes.
The academy coaches cant go into a club and shouldnt as thats not their role. That is role of the development officers and all clubs have a CCRO who works mainly with kids and getting people into club to play but surely they can do more at adult level.

bilston · 05-03-2018 01:19PM

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

$ausage$ wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

I was reading something the other week that claimed Leinster spend £1.4m on club rugby per year while Ulster rugby spend £40,000. That can't possibly be right can it?

If it is true then whoever is making those calls should be sacked on the spot.

It is imperative that at least one of and preferably both Banbridge and Ballynahinch get promoted to 1A next season. We also need Malone to get promoted to 1B and for Ballymena to stay in 1B. And it would be great if Rainey can get into 2A. Basically we need as many clubs playing at as high a level as possible to help with the development of future Ulster players.

Having watched all 3 clubs this season I have a few points.

1. What do ulster do for these clubs? Please don't say they give them players because it is only when it fits their agenda and in some cases can case the team to go backwards introducing so many players into the match day squad esp if they have only trained one day that week.

2. These clubs have got to where they are not thanks to ulster rugby but to the hard work and effort put in by the local players and coaches. Most have been over looked at some under age level for not going to the right school or not being the right shape or size.

3. There are coaches and players out there that can do the job for ulster. We just need to give them a try and step up. We are calling for this much experience or that they have won that. Why? Why not see what we have here and use it. You just have to look at the club v academy game at the start of the year to see we have the players and we don't need to be going to Leinster or where ever for more "talent".

4. I understand that a DoR/Head Coach will need to be someone with experience but Humph didn't have much? Dam McCaul have little to none and now we want him back because he went on to win.

Lets take this opportunity to look in and promote.

Very good comments. Cheers.

Dan Soper gets talked about a lot for example and I like his brand of rugby but he is at the biggest all boy school in Ulster so he should be getting the results in Schools Cup using the law of averages.

Disappointed today's semi moved as I won't see it now. Armagh have a good chance I reckon.

I reckon it's MCB's year having watched 3 of the semi finalists this year.

Soper has won 3 Schools Cups in a row, and was only favourite for one of those years. He has also done a great job at Banbridge. Faloon seems to be doing well with Armagh. Why not get those guys involved somewhere along the way? If you had those two with an experienced gnarly DoR (someone like Richard Cockerill has been mentioned on uafc, but the key is EXPERIENCED DoR) then you might have a team to work with.

bilston · 05-03-2018 01:23PM

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Former Former wrote: »

mfceiling wrote: »

Slightly unfair to single out Farrell and Arnold. Both were stuck behind international or future international players and game time was going to be limited.
Olding, Marshall, Cave, Payne, McCloskey were ahead in the pecking order and unfortunately 7 into 2 just doesn't go.

I wasn't really singling them out as such and understand why they left, Farrell in particular, just noting that there's a bit of an irony in that the guys who moved on are in the Ireland squad while the players who would have kept them out of the Ulster team can't get a look-in with Joe.

To make things worse, Payne is likely finished, Olding is TBD and Cave is out of contract at the end of the season, so Ulster may end up with a bit of a crisis at centre.

It is ironic but the current batch of available ulster centres are woefully out of form in a terrible team. I think Farrell is decent but maybe not as good as some believe. I still think McCloskey and Marshall are better when on form. Olding irrespective of things outside rugby had potential to be a star but I doubt that will happen now. We have a few very good prospects coming through in Hume and Curtis.

Edit: and another giant Centre in Butler. Although not sure how good he is.

Curtis looks very good as a potential playmaking 12. He seems a tough wee fecker too. I quite hopeful he could be a good 'un.

Hume certainly has the ability, but he has been out of the game for a while so just needs to stay fit for the rest of the season.

bilston · 05-03-2018 01:26PM

We probably need to stop throwing kids into the Ulster team at 19/20 and then deciding that they aren't good enough after 5 games. By all means give kids a go, but if it doesn't work out don't throw them to the wolves. Let them go and play A rugby or club rugby and then in a year or two, or even three they may be better for it.

I'm starting to see a bit of this with Jonny Stewart which is very frustrating.

mfceiling · 05-03-2018 01:34PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Dungannon are now mid/bottom of 2B and have been since change from 4 divisions to 5. Its been gradual decline from when they were in division 1

I've heard from a lad fairly high up in the club that they receive more funding when they are down a division or 2 and they're in no rush to drive on. Could be shìte talk but I've watched them play recently and they are poor.
It used to be they took a fair few lads from the Royal School but a lot of the pupils now head for college in England and aren't available at weekends or during the week for training.

stephen_n · 05-03-2018 01:40PM

That DM article was very appropriate for Ulster, some really good stuff in it, but ultimately going nowhere and taking a long time to get there. Seemed to start a lot of points without finishing them, which made it hard going.

The point about forwards from the academy was only half made. Saying there have been highly rated forwards that have gone through and been let go, is only half the story. If they were good enough, like Annett, they’d still be playing professionally. If a lot of them are, then it’s an identification issue, if they aren’t then it’s probably a supply issue.

The Lost Sheep · 05-03-2018 01:47PM

bilston wrote: »

Soper has won 3 Schools Cups in a row, and was only favourite for one of those years. He has also done a great job at Banbridge. Faloon seems to be doing well with Armagh. Why not get those guys involved somewhere along the way? If you had those two with an experienced gnarly DoR (someone like Richard Cockerill has been mentioned on uafc, but the key is EXPERIENCED DoR) then you might have a team to work with.

These have done well in these clubs at AIL level but where do you get them involved?
Do you start with provincial A team or age grade? They are going well in the AIL but big step up from coaching division 2 AIL sides to the pro game.

bilston wrote: »

We probably need to stop throwing kids into the Ulster team at 19/20 and then deciding that they aren't good enough after 5 games. By all means give kids a go, but if it doesn't work out don't throw them to the wolves. Let them go and play A rugby or club rugby and then in a year or two, or even three they may be better for it.

I'm starting to see a bit of this with Jonny Stewart which is very frustrating.

Ye possibly do but if good enough then old enough.... The A team has finally started doing well in the B&I as by and large theyve been ****e. Interestingly the 3 times they qualified for knockouts before this season theyve been knocked out by Munster

$ausage$ · 05-03-2018 02:07PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Soper has won 3 Schools Cups in a row, and was only favourite for one of those years. He has also done a great job at Banbridge. Faloon seems to be doing well with Armagh. Why not get those guys involved somewhere along the way? If you had those two with an experienced gnarly DoR (someone like Richard Cockerill has been mentioned on uafc, but the key is EXPERIENCED DoR) then you might have a team to work with.

These have done well in these clubs at AIL level but where do you get them involved?
Do you start with provincial A team or age grade? They are going well in the AIL but big step up from coaching division 2 AIL sides to the pro game.

Why is playing D1b ok for the players but not the coaches? Is it really that big of a step up for a coach? I dont think so.

Anyway at some point we have to say, yes give him/her a go. But when? when they go away somewhere else and do well and we cant get them back? Soper/Faloon for my money deal day in day out with the younger players which is exactly what ulster will have now. Infact many of them have probably been coached by them at some stage so why not give them a go? If they can develop talent and have proven so then what's to lose?

EDIT**

it could be unfair to have Faloon & Soper at the same level. Faloon has not really won or done anything yet as a head coach. Soper I believe has take his club from Q1 to AIL 1 and had 3 schools cups and a number of finals.
Interesting to see they face off this week!

The Lost Sheep · 05-03-2018 02:14PM

$ausage$ wrote: »

Why is playing D1b ok for the players but not the coaches? Is it really that big of a step up for a coach? I dont think so.

Anyway at some point we have to say, yes give him/her a go. But when? when they go away somewhere else and do well and we cant get them back? Soper/Faloon for my money deal day in day out with the younger players which is exactly what ulster will have now. Infact many of them have probably been coached by them at some stage so why not give them a go? If they can develop talent and have proven so then what's to lose?

Do you really want a guy to go from coaching AIL level straight to main coaching role with the province? Its a huge step up. Would you not put him straight into the provincial set up but not at pro side in pro14 level first.
They have coached AIL and schools sides but that is a small number of younger players. It isnt at all many/most of the pro players in ulster coached by these guys. Ulster are in big trouble. Going to completely inexperienced pro coaches isnt really the right way to go. You need a steady hand. Bring them in if they want with a more experienced and if good enough move them to head coach in time.

$ausage$ · 05-03-2018 02:15PM

Where was McLaughlin's step up?

The Lost Sheep · 05-03-2018 02:19PM

$ausage$ wrote: »

Where was McLaughlin's step up?

McLaughlin was coaching schools level, been involved with irish 21s, then the irish squad as skills coach before going in as head coach with ulster

bilston · 05-03-2018 03:11PM

I'm a bit surprised Soper hasn't been asked to at least join the Academy set up, maybe he has and has said no.

But you'd think he would have excellent knowledge of the best young players coming through the system whether they be players he has coached at Inst or done analysis on at the other schools.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Peel and Aaron Dundon. I haven't seen any improvement from our backs this season at all. We've relied on individual brillance from Piutau, Stockdale and Gilroy and it's no coincidence that those guys have been unavailable in the last 2 or 3 weeks when we've gone to absolute s***...

awec · 05-03-2018 03:16PM

The backs have been rubbish this year. Not impressed by Peel's work so far.

The Black Stags · 05-03-2018 04:47PM

awec wrote: »

The backs have been rubbish this year. Not impressed by Peel's work so far.

He has one year experience of 'backs and skills coach' at Bristol who I'm reading were relegated the season he coached them; before joining Ulster as assistant coach.
Perhaps unsurprisingly his Ulster page bio is entirely focused on his days as a player with no mention of his coaching credentials.
http://www.ulsterrugby.com/team/16190.php

prawnsambo · 05-03-2018 04:51PM

The Black Stags wrote: »

He has one year experience of 'backs and skills coach' at Bristol who I'm reading were relegated the season he coached them; before joining Ulster as assistant coach.
Perhaps unsurprisingly his Ulster page bio is entirely focused on his days as a player with no mention of his coaching credentials.
http://www.ulsterrugby.com/team/16190.php

Is that not the new reality at Ulster though? Who's going to want to work there in a coaching capacity? Dwayne Peel may well be the best available who'd want the job.

The Black Stags · 05-03-2018 05:03PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

The Black Stags wrote: »

He has one year experience of 'backs and skills coach' at Bristol who I'm reading were relegated the season he coached them; before joining Ulster as assistant coach.
Perhaps unsurprisingly his Ulster page bio is entirely focused on his days as a player with no mention of his coaching credentials.
http://www.ulsterrugby.com/team/16190.php

Is that not the new reality at Ulster though? Who's going to want to work there in a coaching capacity? Dwayne Peel may well be the best available who'd want the job.

At this moment in time you're correct, but at that time there was a lot more enthusiasm that things were about to go the right way. Kiss was bedded in picking his own team. World class forwards coach Gibbs was in, Piutau, Coetzee were fit and available, couple of Lions in the team etc. I'd think at the time they could have tried to get someone with more pedigree, or at least some track record.

Will be interesting to see if he stays or goes though.

durthacht · 05-03-2018 06:28PM

awec wrote: »

The backs have been rubbish this year. Not impressed by Peel's work so far.

I haven't seen Ulster as much as you but I wonder how much of their poor back play is down to the forwards not generating momentum for them? McCloskey and Marshall seem auxiliary flankers defending for most of any game I see, and when they do attack they are taking a pass with a defender within two meters of them.

Having said that, I'm so disappointed in Luke Marshall. I first saw him at the opening match in the Aviva in 2010 and he was awesome that day, and a couple of days ago I watched his game against Scotland on YouTube. He was such an exciting player, so fast and dynamic with quick feet and clever angles albeit with a mediocre pass. That all seems to have gone and now he's all about power like a blonde Bastareaud. He looked like he could have been a top class test quality centre but now he's just an average Pro 14 player. Such a shame.

So maybe it's bad forwards or maybe bad coaching. Or maybe a bit of both.

jacothelad · 05-03-2018 06:51PM

durthacht wrote: »

I haven't seen Ulster as much as you but I wonder how much of their poor back play is down to the forwards not generating momentum for them? McCloskey and Marshall seem auxiliary flankers defending for most of any game I see, and when they do attack they are taking a pass with a defender within two meters of them.

Having said that, I'm so disappointed in Luke Marshall. I first saw him at the opening match in the Aviva in 2010 and he was awesome that day, and a couple of days ago I watched his game against Scotland on YouTube. He was such an exciting player, so fast and dynamic with quick feet and clever angles albeit with a mediocre pass. That all seems to have gone and now he's all about power like a blonde Bastareaud. He looked like he could have been a top class test quality centre but now he's just an average Pro 14 player. Such a shame.

So maybe it's bad forwards or maybe bad coaching. Or maybe a bit of both.

Brian McLaughlin happened to Luke Marshall. He moved him from 13 to 12 and told him to bosh and blatter forward. Ruined a good player. People seem to have forgotten how bad it was at times under him and there is a ground swell for his return. Given that he had a forward pack of Court, Best, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy, Wannenberg, Henry, Ferris etc and backs such as Pienaar, Bowe, Trimble, Marshall, Cave, Wallace, Gilroy, Terblanche, his record is pretty uninspiring apart from getting to a cup final. Time has given a few people rose-tinted 20/20 hindsight. He is an o.k.coach I suppose but he had advantages of personnel that his successors did not.

Hands Like Flippers · 05-03-2018 06:58PM

bilston wrote: »

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

$ausage$ wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

I was reading something the other week that claimed Leinster spend £1.4m on club rugby per year while Ulster rugby spend £40,000. That can't possibly be right can it?

If it is true then whoever is making those calls should be sacked on the spot.

It is imperative that at least one of and preferably both Banbridge and Ballynahinch get promoted to 1A next season. We also need Malone to get promoted to 1B and for Ballymena to stay in 1B. And it would be great if Rainey can get into 2A. Basically we need as many clubs playing at as high a level as possible to help with the development of future Ulster players.

Having watched all 3 clubs this season I have a few points.

1. What do ulster do for these clubs? Please don't say they give them players because it is only when it fits their agenda and in some cases can case the team to go backwards introducing so many players into the match day squad esp if they have only trained one day that week.

2. These clubs have got to where they are not thanks to ulster rugby but to the hard work and effort put in by the local players and coaches. Most have been over looked at some under age level for not going to the right school or not being the right shape or size.

3. There are coaches and players out there that can do the job for ulster. We just need to give them a try and step up. We are calling for this much experience or that they have won that. Why? Why not see what we have here and use it. You just have to look at the club v academy game at the start of the year to see we have the players and we don't need to be going to Leinster or where ever for more "talent".

4. I understand that a DoR/Head Coach will need to be someone with experience but Humph didn't have much? Dam McCaul have little to none and now we want him back because he went on to win.

Lets take this opportunity to look in and promote.

Very good comments. Cheers.

Dan Soper gets talked about a lot for example and I like his brand of rugby but he is at the biggest all boy school in Ulster so

Soper has won 3 Schools Cups in a row, and was only favourite for one of those years. He has also done a great job at Banbridge. Faloon seems to be doing well with Armagh. Why not get those guys involved somewhere along the way? If you had those two with an experienced gnarly DoR (someone like Richard Cockerill has been mentioned on uafc, but the key is EXPERIENCED DoR) then you might have a team to work with.

I agree with what you say here save RBAI were only favourite one of the three years. They were surprised to win the first year but expected it years 2 and 3 AFAIK. Doesn't change the point though about the numbers he has to work with. E.g., only MCB can match the number of teams RBAI can put out. E.g., u14 a b and c. Approx 5 teams at senior level as well. He has unsurprisingly managed to get the best RBAI players to Banbridge e.g. Hume Lowry etc and fair do's to him.

Armagh have 3 good year groups (Y12-14) but it will be slim pickings thereafter. WF will have his work cut out with the Royal School senior team thereafter.

Hands Like Flippers · 05-03-2018 06:59PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

$ausage$ wrote: »

Why is playing D1b ok for the players but not the coaches? Is it really that big of a step up for a coach? I dont think so.

Anyway at some point we have to say, yes give him/her a go. But when? when they go away somewhere else and do well and we cant get them back? Soper/Faloon for my money deal day in day out with the younger players which is exactly what ulster will have now. Infact many of them have probably been coached by them at some stage so why not give them a go? If they can develop talent and have proven so then what's to lose?

Do you really want a guy to go from coaching AIL level straight to main coaching role with the province? Its a huge step up. Would you not put him straight into the provincial set up but not at pro side in pro14 level first.
They have coached AIL and schools sides but that is a small number of younger players. It isnt at all many/most of the pro players in ulster coached by these guys. Ulster are in big trouble. Going to completely inexperienced pro coaches isnt really the right way to go. You need a steady hand. Bring them in if they want with a more experienced and if good enough move them to head coach in time.

Plus no real job security with senior job at UR. Contrast with say Super at RBAI where everyone thinks he is awesome...

awec · 05-03-2018 07:51PM

jacothelad wrote: »

Brian McLaughlin happened to Luke Marshall. He moved him from 13 to 12 and told him to bosh and blatter forward. Ruined a good player. People seem to have forgotten how bad it was at times under him and there is a ground swell for his return. Given that he had a forward pack of Court, Best, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy, Wannenberg, Henry, Ferris etc and backs such as Pienaar, Bowe, Trimble, Marshall, Cave, Wallace, Gilroy, Terblanche, his record is pretty uninspiring apart from getting to a cup final. Time has given a few people rose-tinted 20/20 hindsight. He is an o.k.coach I suppose but he had advantages of personnel that his successors did not.

100%.

McLaughlin is not the answer.

I hope the next coaching staff have no previous connection to Ulster Rugby and no previous connection to the IRFU. I don't want jobs for the boys or some IRFU lickspittle.

prawnsambo · 05-03-2018 07:54PM

awec wrote: »

100%.

McLaughlin is not the answer.

I hope the next coaching staff have no previous connection to Ulster Rugby and no previous connection to the IRFU. I don't want jobs for the boys or some IRFU lickspittle.

Jono Gibbes and Dwayne Peel are wondering where that puts them. :rolleyes:

salmocab · 05-03-2018 07:58PM

Not really sure about this Soper, he’s a schools coach so it would be a massive step up, what Ulster need is a good strong coach who can rip that squad apart and start again, it’s a long term project but that means that some quality will be needed short term and a schools coach won’t attract that.
He may well be a good enough coach but ulster can’t take risks at the moment they need a quality coaching team.
I know people were suggesting a strong DOR and then other indigenous coaches but to me that’s just a waste maybe in 2/3 years time but right now they need a seriously strong hand.

Hands Like Flippers · 05-03-2018 08:00PM

salmocab wrote: »

Not really sure about this Soper, he’s a schools coach so it would be a massive step up, what Ulster need is a good strong coach who can rip that squad apart and start again, it’s a long term project but that means that some quality will be needed short term and a schools coach won’t attract that.
He may well be a good enough coach but ulster can’t take risks at the moment they need a quality coaching team.
I know people were suggesting a strong DOR and then other indigenous coaches but to me that’s just a waste maybe in 2/3 years time but right now they need a seriously strong hand.

Also coaches Banbridge.

bilston · 05-03-2018 08:05PM

jacothelad wrote: »

durthacht wrote: »

I haven't seen Ulster as much as you but I wonder how much of their poor back play is down to the forwards not generating momentum for them? McCloskey and Marshall seem auxiliary flankers defending for most of any game I see, and when they do attack they are taking a pass with a defender within two meters of them.

Having said that, I'm so disappointed in Luke Marshall. I first saw him at the opening match in the Aviva in 2010 and he was awesome that day, and a couple of days ago I watched his game against Scotland on YouTube. He was such an exciting player, so fast and dynamic with quick feet and clever angles albeit with a mediocre pass. That all seems to have gone and now he's all about power like a blonde Bastareaud. He looked like he could have been a top class test quality centre but now he's just an average Pro 14 player. Such a shame.

So maybe it's bad forwards or maybe bad coaching. Or maybe a bit of both.

Brian McLaughlin happened to Luke Marshall. He moved him from 13 to 12 and told him to bosh and blatter forward. Ruined a good player. People seem to have forgotten how bad it was at times under him and there is a ground swell for his return. Given that he had a forward pack of Court, Best, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy, Wannenberg, Henry, Ferris etc and backs such as Pienaar, Bowe, Trimble, Marshall, Cave, Wallace, Gilroy, Terblanche, his record is pretty uninspiring apart from getting to a cup final. Time has given a few people rose-tinted 20/20 hindsight. He is an o.k.coach I suppose but he had advantages of personnel that his successors did not.

Did Marshall even play that much under McGlock? Did he not make his breakthrough under Amscombe. Our midfield under McLaughlin was Wallace/Cave surely? I thought Marshall was always a 12, in fact at school he was a 10 as far as I know. He was never a 13. He moved to 13 only a couple of years IIRC.

The problem for Luke is he can't pass. If he could learn to pass on the run hencpuld be a top player, but he's never mastered it.

Hands Like Flippers · 05-03-2018 09:54PM

He coaches Banbridge as well

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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