Heavyweight Boxing

Morrison J · 24-01-2018 9:26pm

walshb wrote: »

I’d hazard a guess that he’d more than likely have knocked Fury out. Fury is a piss poor power puncher. Even Wlad I reckon survives his best.

Why didn't he commit so if it's that easy? He was blatantly petrified of what would come back.

Fury can punch, he just doesn't step into his punches too often. He's a boxer more than a puncher. If Wlad had committed, missed and left himself open, I have zero doubt the 6'9 Fury could've knocked him out with a counter. It's heavyweight boxing.

walshb · 24-01-2018 9:40pm

Nobody said it was easy...

He didn’t commit because he’s a windbag.You said it. “Petrified.” What a sad indictment for the HW champion of the world. He has fought like a windbag for years, using his physical advantages to better smaller men. Too windy to then try and hold onto his title by committing and fighting like a man, a champion, the HW champion of the world when faced with a clearly bigger man with skills.

He was not much different vs. AJ. Just that AJ easier to tag. He still fought his usual safety cautious approach...

This BS about him letting AJ off the hook...no, he did not. He was just too windy to actually try and close the show....unlike AJ, who threw the kitchen sink to seal the deal.

walshb · 24-01-2018 9:42pm

Btw, I wouldn’t dare call him a windbag to his face!

Danye · 24-01-2018 9:44pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Why didn't he commit so if it's that easy? He was blatantly petrified of what would come back.

Fury can punch, he just doesn't step into his punches too often. He's a boxer more than a puncher. If Wlad had committed, missed and left himself open, I have zero doubt the 6'9 Fury could've knocked him out with a counter. It's heavyweight boxing.

Only he can answer that.

If he wasn’t aggressive against Fury because he was fearful of Fury’s power, why on earth was he aggressive against AJ, who regardless of what you think about him as a boxer has far more devasting Power than Fury.

Morrison J · 24-01-2018 9:59pm

Danye wrote: »

If he wasn’t aggressive against Fury because he was fearful of Fury’s power, why on earth was he aggressive against AJ, who regardless of what you think about him as a boxer has far more devasting Power than Fury.

Because Fury is a moving target and Joshua is as stationary as it gets.

Fury was switching in and out of stances all fight. Wlad notoriously likes to set his feet before throwing and Fury never let him get comfortable.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a power thing. He knew if he lunged forward going for a big shot, he'd more than likely miss because of Fury's head movement and get countered with a clean punch that'd be scored by the judges. In a fight of few scoring punches Wlad knew he couldn't afford to be letting Fury catch him with eye catching counters.

Fury's skillset was too much for Wlad in that fight. That's the bottom line really.

yourdeadwright · 25-01-2018 10:31am

walshb wrote: »

Morrison J wrote: »

If Wlad had fought aggressive against Fury he'd have more than likely got knocked out himself and he knew it.

I’d hazard a guess that he’d more than likely have knocked Fury out. Fury is a piss poor power puncher. Even Wlad I reckon survives his best.

If that is the case why didn't Wlad fight aggressive ?
I think it was his 66 pro fight i'm sure he realised he was losing ,Could you for a moment think maybe it was Fury that stopped him from being aggressive,
WalshB you trying to say Wlad just decided he didn't want to hit Fury or decided he didn't want to win the fight, He wasn't let fight his own gameplan and its something no one done to him before,

yourdeadwright · 25-01-2018 10:34am

Morrison J wrote: »

Danye wrote: »

If he wasn’t aggressive against Fury because he was fearful of Fury’s power, why on earth was he aggressive against AJ, who regardless of what you think about him as a boxer has far more devasting Power than Fury.

Because Fury is a moving target and Joshua is as stationary as it gets.

Fury was switching in and out of stances all fight. Wlad notoriously likes to set his feet before throwing and Fury never let him get comfortable.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a power thing. He knew if he lunged forward going for a big shot, he'd more than likely miss because of Fury's head movement and get countered with a clean punch that'd be scored by the judges. In a fight of few scoring punches Wlad knew he couldn't afford to be letting Fury catch him with eye catching counters.

Fury's skillset was too much for Wlad in that fight. That's the bottom line really.

The above is a correct, and why Tyson performance was better,
Wlad for the first time in 66 fights didn't have an answer, Its not that he didn't;t want to get to Tyson but more he simply couldn't , Tyson footwork is miles better than any heavy weight out there ,people find it hard to believe cause he's fat but he's streets ahead of AJ for movement,

walshb · 25-01-2018 12:21pm

There were many instances where Wald could have let the hands go and he just didn't.

Yes, Fury's movement was very good. I watched it back. I still wasn't overly impressed with the overall performance, but his feet and movement for a big man are very good, something I have always said.

Depends on how one likes to rate a performance.

For me AJ put an actual physical punching beating on Wlad. He hit him, hurt him, rocked him and stopped him. Sure, there were scary moments for him and it was close, but that is HW boxing, and AJ, remember, is there to be be hit. He comes to fight and trade. Completely different style compared to Fury.

Fury pecked and poked and spoiled his way to a points win where I found it to be really lacking in areas I favor, scoring clean punches.

For me I cannot rate that win better than AJs win...

Separately: The Fury that beat Wlad would absolutely not get away with that against AJ. Does anyone think AJ would be scared sh1tless to get hit, like Wlad seemed to be? AJ would go for it, force the pressure, let the hands go and wreck Fury at mid range, and eat him up inside.

AJ in similar positions that Wlad was in would have scored effectively, and would at least have thrown meaningful punches.

yourdeadwright · 25-01-2018 3:29pm

walshb wrote: »

There were many instances where Wald could have let the hands go and he just didn't.

Yes, Fury's movement was very good. I watched it back. I still wasn't overly impressed with the overall performance, but his feet and movement for a big man are very good, something I have always said.

Depends on how one likes to rate a performance.

For me AJ put an actual physical punching beating on Wlad. He hit him, hurt him, rocked him and stopped him. Sure, there were scary moments for him and it was close, but that is HW boxing, and AJ, remember, is there to be be hit. He comes to fight and trade. Completely different style compared to Fury.

Fury pecked and poked and spoiled his way to a points win where I found it to be really lacking in areas I favor, scoring clean punches.

For me I cannot rate that win better than AJs win...

Separately: The Fury that beat Wlad would absolutely not get away with that against AJ. Does anyone think AJ would be scared sh1tless to get hit, like Wlad seemed to be? AJ would go for it, force the pressure, let the hands go and wreck Fury at mid range, and eat him up inside.

AJ in similar positions that Wlad was in would have scored effectively, and would at least have thrown meaningful punches.

Why do you think Wlad was scared to let his hands go v Tyson but not scared v AJ ?
Wlad is a far better boxer tham AJ , AJ just survived and barley won and it was due to being over a decade younger so fitter and stronger nothing else, But Tyson outfoxed Wlad at his own game and that doesn't impress you ,
You just said yourself AJ fought his own style of fight of standing there and banging
Wlad hasn't done that in over 12 years and still nearly stopped him and he was 40 after two years out,

walshb · 25-01-2018 4:16pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Why do you think Wlad was scared to let his hands go v Tyson but not scared v AJ ?
Wlad is a far better boxer tham AJ , AJ just survived and barley won and it was due to being over a decade younger so fitter and stronger nothing else, But Tyson outfoxed Wlad at his own game and that doesn't impress you ,
You just said yourself AJ fought his own style of fight of standing there and banging
Wlad hasn't done that in over 12 years and still nearly stopped him and he was 40 after two years out,

Actually, Wlad let the hands go as little vs. AJ as well.....

Check the punch stats. He was timid vs. AJ, just that he was forced to fight a little harder against AJ when he did fight due to AJ forcing the pace and making the fight far more dangerous than the Fury fight.

Wlad is absolutely not a far better boxer than AJ. He was down on points in a boxing match against him. AJ is technically quite effective. He looks stiff and is slow on the feet, but he is 250 lbs. You don't win gold at the games without being able to box.

Just face facts: Wlad was behind on points, hurt and then knocked out by AJ. Clear win at the end.

Against Fury he lost a snoozer on points with not a scratch on him because he barely got hit properly over 36 mins.

AJs win for me is the more impressive.

yourdeadwright · 25-01-2018 5:16pm

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Why do you think Wlad was scared to let his hands go v Tyson but not scared v AJ ?
Wlad is a far better boxer tham AJ , AJ just survived and barley won and it was due to being over a decade younger so fitter and stronger nothing else, But Tyson outfoxed Wlad at his own game and that doesn't impress you ,
You just said yourself AJ fought his own style of fight of standing there and banging
Wlad hasn't done that in over 12 years and still nearly stopped him and he was 40 after two years out,

Actually, Wlad let the hands go as little vs. AJ as well.....

Check the punch stats. He was timid vs. AJ, just that he was forced to fight a little harder against AJ when he did fight due to AJ forcing the pace and making the fight far more dangerous than the Fury fight.

Wlad is absolutely not a far better boxer than AJ. He was down on points in a boxing match against him. AJ is technically quite effective. He looks stiff and is slow on the feet, but he is 250 lbs. You don't win gold at the games without being able to box.

Just face facts: Wlad was behind on points, hurt and then knocked out by AJ. Clear win at the end.

Against Fury he lost a snoozer on points with not a scratch on him because he barely got hit properly over 36 mins.

AJs win for me is the more impressive.

Wlad is also a Olympic champion and has outboxed everyone he has face his whole life except Tyson . AJ would not have made the final if it was not in London he clearly got beat in the Semi final
Of the tree judges two had AJ ahead one had Wlad ahead, so again stop trying to rewrite history , Aj did not outbox him ,
I will remind you again Wlad was 40yearold and two years out of the ring and was holding his own with a 28 yearold who was fitter and stronger ,
I would say it was Wlads boxing that kept it so close ,
It was AJ's youth and power that won him the fight not boxing skills ,he is as stiff as a board in the ring, but massive with big power and it saved him that night,

yourdeadwright · 25-01-2018 5:22pm

Just to highlight how much rubbish you talk,
AJ landed 30% of his total punches , Wlad landed 36 %
Aj landed 22% of his jab to Wlad's 42 %
You said check the stats and I did, it shows Wlad was the way more accurate of the two but the decade in the difference allowed AJ to the throw way more punches even though most missed,
AJ was only ahead in power hosts and it was 37% to 32% which ud expect from a huge guys ten years younger.
again Aj is not a technically sound as Wlad or Tyson its not even close, and again the Wlad he fought was 40 and 2 years removed

yourdeadwright · 25-01-2018 5:26pm

You need to realise that everything Eddie Hearn and sky tell you is not 100% accurate

yourdeadwright · 25-01-2018 5:30pm

Sorry for the rant, but AJ also weighted in at his heaviest ever for the fight , that tells you he was looking to add power as he knew himself he was not outboxing Wlad

walshb · 25-01-2018 5:45pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Just to highlight how much rubbish you talk,
AJ landed 30% of his total punches , Wlad landed 36 %
Aj landed 22% of his jab to Wlad's 42 %
You said check the stats and I did, it shows Wlad was the way more accurate of the two but the decade in the difference allowed AJ to the throw way more punches even though most missed,
AJ was only ahead in power hosts and it was 37% to 32% which ud expect from a huge guys ten years younger.
again Aj is not a technically sound as Wlad or Tyson its not even close, and again the Wlad he fought was 40 and 2 years removed

Excsue me....I never mentioned accuracy. I simply mentioned punches thrown/volume, so keep your knickers on.

walshb · 25-01-2018 5:47pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Sorry for the rant, but AJ also weighted in at his heaviest ever for the fight , that tells you he was looking to add power as he knew himself he was not outboxing Wlad

He was a couple lbs heavier, even less than a couple of lbs than some previous fights......overall percentage wise it is pretty negligible. Not sure why you think (or know) that it was to add power?

a lb or two lbs heavier on a man the size of AJ........

So no, it does not tell me that he was looking to add power. Only he could know if that is true.....or if that was his intention/plan!

walshb · 25-01-2018 5:48pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

You need to realise that everything Eddie Hearn and sky tell you is not 100% accurate

Eddie told me nothing. Stop fixating on manufactured hype!

walshb · 25-01-2018 5:51pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

as he knew himself he was not outboxing Wlad

Yet he did outbox him.....

hmmmmmm

walshb · 25-01-2018 6:09pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Of the tree judges two had AJ ahead one had Wlad ahead, so again stop trying to rewrite history , Aj did not outbox him ,

Yes, AJ was ahead on the cards. I said this. Nothing to do with rewriting history. Do you ever stop to read back over the nonsense you spout? It would help an awful lot here.

Me: "He was down on points in a boxing match against him."

At the time of stoppage this is true. It's a fact. It is not rewriting history.

yourdeadwright · 25-01-2018 6:40pm

Ok so a AJ who got knocked down barley survives and was down on one of the judges score cards , connected with less accurcey than hos oppenet , Still managed out boxed Wlad haha your some boy ,
He won and fair play to him bit in know worls did he out box him or look impreaive aginst a 40yeard ild who hadnt fought in 2 years and was beaten in that last fight ,
Stop the nonsens will ye

yourdeadwright · 25-01-2018 6:50pm

i just can't see how u think Wlad was out boxed ? He lost yes but he was not outboxed at all ,
His work in the ring was far cleaner , he hit the targer more often and made AJ miss more ofthen to ,
Again he did lose but very nearly won , so u saying he was outboxed is miles off the mark ,

yourdeadwright · 25-01-2018 6:59pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, AJ was ahead on the cards. I said this. Nothing to do with rewriting history. Do you ever stop to read back over the nonsense you spout? It would help an awful lot here.

Me: "He was down on points in a boxing match against him."

At the time of stoppage this is true. It's a fact. It is not rewriting history.

Yes thats true but u said he was out boxed , being up on one score card and having sat AJ down hard on his ass would piont at the fact he was not out boxed , He lost yes but he was not outboxed ,
AJ won a 50/50 wjere he had to come back to win aginst a 40 yearold who'd lost his last fight which was 2 years previous, no where near as impressive as Fury not being touched

My orginal piont stands Fury win was miles more impresive if ypu understand boxing

walshb · 25-01-2018 6:59pm

I am not saying he was clearly outboxed..

He was behind on points...I think fairly so in a close fight..

Outboxed. But in a close fight...

I never said otherwise...

Visconti · 25-01-2018 7:58pm

Danye wrote: »

I’d disagree with this.

The Wlad AJ fought was a very different, aggressive man compared to the one Fury fought. If Wlad had the same aggression and willingness to throw his hands as he did in his last fight he might of stopped Fury.

Your gauging whos better between the 2 based on their performances against Wlad, but two very different Wlads. Chalk and cheese.

Apart from the Wlad fight, who has Fury got on his resume?

If Fury is also so good, why didn’t he achieve much as an amateur?

Amateur game and pro game are totally different. Lots of good solid pros had average amateur records.
Fury is the most skilled heavy weight on the planet.
I hope he proves it again to the world.

Visconti · 25-01-2018 8:00pm

walshb wrote: »

But it's Fury knocking around with MTK, not AJ...

Anyway, way off point....

Whats the problem with MTK ? Good facilities, good sparring, Macklin is a well respected guy in the boxing world.

walshb · 25-01-2018 8:05pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

My orginal piont stands Fury win was miles more impresive if ypu understand boxing

You clearly don’t.

yourdeadwright · 26-01-2018 12:18pm

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

My orginal piont stands Fury win was miles more impresive if ypu understand boxing

You clearly don’t.

Says the man whos claiming AJ out boxed Wlad, when he was on his arse losing on one score card and over a decade younger,
He did not win that fight due to having outboxed Wlad, he won as he was a fresher younger, stronger man, If anything it was the fact Wlad could use his skill and outbox AJ that made it such a close fight,
Outbox "defeat (an opponent) by superior boxing ability." this was not what AJ did,
Your refusal to look at what actually happened is funny, you'll say anything to not have to give Fury's performance against Wlad any credit,
Fury is the only man in the last 10 year 's to outbox Wlad and you just can't handle that,
Here's a question ,if instead of AJ v Wlad that was a Fury v Wlad rematch , and it went the exact same way but Fury taking place in the ring , Which win would be more impressive ?
Beating him on the cards untouched or winning a 50/50 slug fest after being dropped and barley surviving ,
Your being swayed by the name and not looking at the actual performance ,

walshb · 26-01-2018 12:46pm

AJ ahead on two cards to one....wining on points. I am ok calling that AJ out-boxing (albeit closely) Wlad

BTW, Wlad too on his arse during the fight...

Get over it. Wlad lost. Was losing at the time he was stopped...facts

Had it went 12 and to decision AJ may well have won on points. You do realize this, no? What would you have called that? Wlad out-boxing AJ but losing on points, or AJ out-boxing Wlad and winning on points?

You keep dealing in hearsay and bluster.....

walshb · 26-01-2018 12:56pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Beating him on the cards untouched or winning a 50/50 slug fest after being dropped and barley surviving ,
Your being swayed by the name and not looking at the actual performance ,

Why don't you start a poll? It seems that it's quite annoying to you to think that someone could be more impressed with AJs win over Wlad compared to Fury's win over Wlad.

dinorebel · 26-01-2018 1:22pm

The above discussion is pretty much a rerun of the Wlad v Fury fight lots of hot air but not much actual content:D

Heavyweight Boxing

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