DCM 2017 Graduates: Onwards and upwards!

The Black Oil · 14-01-2018 09:55PM

Re why LSRs runs are slow - seems that's been thrashed out a good bit already. I forget the technical/scientific explanation given last year - think it was down to building your engine (strengthens the heart too?), but would imagine it's also linked to reducing risk of injury.

A line or two from the OP in the 2017 Novices thread.

Run slow. Once you think you run slow enough, run even slower. You will not be able to complete all the training miles if you don't run the majority of them slow (slower than you will run on the day itself).

skyblue46 · 14-01-2018 10:01PM

The Black Oil wrote: »

Re why LSRs runs are slow - seems that's been thrashed out a good bit already. I forget the technical/scientific explanation given last year - think it was down to building your engine (strengthens the heart too?), but would imagine it's also linked to reducing risk of injury.

A line or two from the OP in the 2017 Novices thread.

It's actually an interesting change up on the grad plan that the long run isn't the slowest run of the week any more. Hope you're keeping well.

skyblue46 · 14-01-2018 11:14PM

Just a quick question for the lads re my sessions this week. 10*300 at mile pace. If this is calculated using projected mile time based on my 5k it's in the AE range. On Saturday I have to do 4*8 mins at HM pace. This would seem to be at the crossover between tempo and threshold. Do both of these seem OK?

ariana` · 15-01-2018 10:31AM

Kellygirl wrote: »

Just looking at the Dublin Marathon website - this year the waves are starting every 15 mins but they are assigning wave times based on your previous time or estimated if a first time runner. Wonder how that will work if somebody has done a significant amount of work during the year and intends shaving a big chunk off their pb.

What are the wave times? If i entered again i'd be aiming for a good 15-20 mins off last years time :eek:

skyblue46 · 15-01-2018 10:53AM

ariana` wrote: »

What are the wave times? If i entered again i'd be aiming for a good 15-20 mins off last years time :eek:

A good 38 minutes off last years time!!!!

ariana` · 15-01-2018 10:58AM

skyblue46 wrote: »

A good 38 minutes off last years time!!!!

Now that would be sweet

Kellygirl · 15-01-2018 02:32PM

ariana` wrote: »

What are the wave times? If i entered again i'd be aiming for a good 15-20 mins off last years time :eek:

They don’t say the wave times other than 4 waves at 9, 9:15, 9:30 and 9:45. When booking you fill in your previous time and estimated time. You could say you are a first time runner too though and just give an estimated time to make sure you end up in the right wave.

Testosterscone · 15-01-2018 05:35PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

Just a quick question for the lads re my sessions this week. 10*300 at mile pace. If this is calculated using projected mile time based on my 5k it's in the AE range. On Saturday I have to do 4*8 mins at HM pace. This would seem to be at the crossover between tempo and threshold. Do both of these seem OK?

Just had a look. The slower range for AE would be fine for this. It's definitely a tough session but no more so than the hills that preceeded it.

Regarding the HM pace. This is a turning point in the plan. Your threshold work and Tempo work should be good indicators of where your fitness is. Now that you are over half way though the plan it's time to start dialing in the target pace you aim to run on Race day. Be realistic with yourself on this though if you haven't been running anywhere near this pace on your threshold runs up until now don't suddenly assume that you will magically improve fitness simply from plucking an ambitious target out of the sky. It will probably work out a somewhere between the two with it slight tilted more towards the threshold end of the range if that makes sense (Just had a look at your strava and figures and this would probably put you into the 7.20-7.30 range approx.

skyblue46 · 15-01-2018 05:58PM

Testosterscone wrote: »

Just had a look. The slower range for AE would be fine for this. It's definitely a tough session but no more so than the hills that preceeded it.

Regarding the HM pace. This is a turning point in the plan. Your threshold work and Tempo work should be good indicators of where your fitness is. Now that you are over half way though the plan it's time to start dialing in the target pace you aim to run on Race day. Be realistic with yourself on this though if you haven't been running anywhere near this pace on your threshold runs up until now don't suddenly assume that you will magically improve fitness simply from plucking an ambitious target out of the sky. It will probably work out a somewhere between the two with it slight tilted more towards the threshold end of the range if that makes sense (Just had a look at your strava and figures and this would probably put you into the 7.20-7.30 range approx.

Thanks for taking the time to have a look. I think I'll aim at 7:20 pace. My Dublin half was 7:36 and I'm hoping to have improved a bit with only six weeks done and still eight to do. I've used parkruns as tempo and threshold for the last few weeks averaging about 7:10 for threshold and 7:25 for tempo. It has been testing without being all out. I'm going to aim for a 36 min Raheny @ 7:12 miles so that should give me a good idea of where I'm at.

skyblue46 · 17-01-2018 07:38PM

Testosterscone wrote: »

Just had a look. The slower range for AE would be fine for this. It's definitely a tough session but no more so than the hills that preceded it.

Erm...for me definitely tougher than the hills!! Messed up setting the workout on the watch so ended up only doing 9 repeats. That ended up being a blessing in disguise as a 10th one would have left me typing this from my deathbed !!! Fooked!

Baby75 · 17-01-2018 08:52PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

Erm...for me definitely tougher than the hills!! Messed up setting the workout on the watch so ended up only doing 9 repeats. That ended up being a blessing in disguise as a 10th one would have left me typing this from my deathbed !!! Fooked!

Well done on getting it done:)

I got out for a session tonight, I am wondering if I should have found it harder than I did

I warmed up and we did 1 mind repeats with 3 min recovery in between them, I was trying to run at my 5km pace but kept finding that I was to fast I was aiming for 5.30 min pace and only one hit that all the rest faster. at no time did I feel I could not go on and feel great now I am finished.

but I guess I do not have a recent 5km time to go on for paces

skyblue46 · 17-01-2018 09:05PM

Baby75 wrote: »

Well done on getting it done:)

I got out for a session tonight, I am wondering if I should have found it harder than I did I warmed up and we did 1 mind repeats with 3 min recovery in between them, I was trying to run at my 5km pace but kept finding that I was to fast I was aiming for 5.30 min pace and only one hit that all the rest faster. at no time did I feel I could not go on and feel great now I am finished.

but I guess I do not have a recent 5km time to go on for paces

My pace was about 3:45 but I think it was the 60 sec rest that really made it tough

Baby75 · 17-01-2018 09:34PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

My pace was about 3:45 but I think it was the 60 sec rest that really made it tough

flying S, my pace was under 5 minutes so I had to check and slow down, hit my target pace once 5.30, the rest are faster. I guess I am a little bit happy a pace I thought I would never run I can now and I know I can sustain it for longer as well. but I just want to make sure I do it right

I will know exactly where I am after the 28th Jan

which terrifies me I always get so nervous before a 5km

skyblue46 · 17-01-2018 09:37PM

Baby75 wrote: »

flying S, my pace was under 5 minutes so I had to check and slow down, hit my target pace once 5.30, the rest are faster. I guess I am a little bit happy a pace I thought I would never run I can now and I know I can sustain it for longer as well. but I just want to make sure I do it right

I will know exactly where I am after the 28th Jan which terrifies me I always get so nervous before a 5km

Pick a target pace and go at it pretty much even paced

RolandDeschain · 17-01-2018 11:02PM

I did the 5min CV session tonight. Bloody hell. Thought my heart was going to explode on the last set.

How are folks finding the grad plans? I find the Sessions are class. I haven't missed one yet but missed a few of the LSRs so my overall weekly mileage hasn't been high enough.

Does anyone know a good S&C coach or PT for runners? Any gym work I do is more on the body building or powerlifting side. Be nice to get any gym work to make me a better runner!

RolandDeschain · 17-01-2018 11:03PM

Baby75 wrote: »

flying S, my pace was under 5 minutes so I had to check and slow down, hit my target pace once 5.30, the rest are faster. I guess I am a little bit happy a pace I thought I would never run I can now and I know I can sustain it for longer as well. but I just want to make sure I do it right

I will know exactly where I am after the 28th Jan which terrifies me I always get so nervous before a 5km

Good stuff. Great to hear the speed work pays off.

I hear ya about 5km races. I always mess them up pacing wise.

ariana` · 18-01-2018 10:02AM

Baby75 wrote: »

flying S, my pace was under 5 minutes so I had to check and slow down, hit my target pace once 5.30, the rest are faster. I guess I am a little bit happy a pace I thought I would never run I can now and I know I can sustain it for longer as well. but I just want to make sure I do it right

I will know exactly where I am after the 28th Jan which terrifies me I always get so nervous before a 5km

Me too Baby. It's definitely a love/hate relationship for me! I love the buzz afterwards especially if you've PB'ed or even just ran really well. Is it a course you've run before? I'm getting to a stage now where there are a few local 5K races every year and i've done them all twice or even 3 times so i look back at my previous efforts on Strava to break the race down and plan a strategy.

Or if you have an idea of the course profile it could help in this way?

skyblue46 wrote: »

Pick a target pace and go at it pretty much even paced

Or this, pick a realistic target and run even splits for 4km and in the last km empty the tank!

You've a good PB in you that is for sure so don't be afraid of it

Baby75 · 18-01-2018 02:14PM

RolandDeschain wrote: »

Good stuff. Great to hear the speed work pays off.

I hear ya about 5km races. I always mess them up pacing wise.

It really does, and with following the plan and running slower on your midweek runs it is nice to do a speed session and see progress

I have messed them up as well, but in fairness, I had unrealistic expectations at my last 5KM and I think I went out to fast so I was disappointed even though looking back I ran really well Hopefully I am wiser now

ariana` wrote: »

Me too Baby. It's definitely a love/hate relationship for me! I love the buzz afterwards especially if you've PB'ed or even just ran really well. Is it a course you've run before? I'm getting to a stage now where there are a few local 5K races every year and i've done them all twice or even 3 times so i look back at my previous efforts on Strava to break the race down and plan a strategy.

Or if you have an idea of the course profile it could help in this way?

Or this, pick a realistic target and run even splits for 4km and in the last km empty the tank!

You've a good PB in you that is for sure so don't be afraid of it

Thanks Ariana, I do know the course, I ran my 10k PB on it in August it is a run out of 2.5 then turn and run back in again, for the 10K I did not start with a pacer but I caught up with the 60 minute one I and stayed with her, I moved ahead of her at one point & she caught back up just after we turned at the 5km mark so stuck with her again till I hit the turn around for the 5km and I won't say I empitied the tank but I upped my pace and finished strong sprinting to the finish.

I will be doing a nice warm up and some strides beforehand to get the legs ready for the faster pace

But still, 5km are scary

its all about hanging on!

ariana` · 18-01-2018 03:29PM

Baby75 wrote: »

It really does, and with following the plan and running slower on your midweek runs it is nice to do a speed session and see progress

I have messed them up as well, but in fairness, I had unrealistic expectations at my last 5KM and I think I went out to fast so I was disappointed even though looking back I ran really well Hopefully I am wiser now

Thanks Ariana, I do know the course, I ran my 10k PB on it in August it is a run out of 2.5 then turn and run back in again, for the 10K I did not start with a pacer but I caught up with the 60 minute one I and stayed with her, I moved ahead of her at one point & she caught back up just after we turned at the 5km mark so stuck with her again till I hit the turn around for the 5km and I won't say I empitied the tank but I upped my pace and finished strong sprinting to the finish.

I will be doing a nice warm up and some strides beforehand to get the legs ready for the faster pace

But still, 5km are scary its all about hanging on!

Sure is. I get that sick nervous feeling in my stomach just thinking about them :pac: but you'll do great, i know you will. What time do you think you will target?

Baby75 · 18-01-2018 04:03PM

ariana` wrote: »

Sure is. I get that sick nervous feeling in my stomach just thinking about them :pac: but you'll do great, i know you will. What time do you think you will target?

Yep same here, no other race does that to me LOL I am thinking 27 minutes but 26 is in the back of my mind as well so we shall see

Oh picked up a new foam roller in Aldi today much better than my last one which has vanished into the great beyond caused by my kids LOL but great value at 8 euro and they had them in Lidil for 9

ariana` · 19-01-2018 09:54AM

Baby75 wrote: »

Yep same here, no other race does that to me LOL I am thinking 27 minutes but 26 is in the back of my mind as well so we shall see

Oh picked up a new foam roller in Aldi today much better than my last one which has vanished into the great beyond caused by my kids LOL but great value at 8 euro and they had them in Lidil for 9

I think you should go for 26. Set out at 5:10 pace and see how you're feeling as it goes, you'll know how you're feeling and if you need to you can readjust to 5:20 and 27 will still be well on.

I have 2 foam rollers and neither of them are cutting it at the moment. I'm just rolling over the knots and not getting into them. My latest torture device is a baseball :eek:

On the subject i was at physio again yesterday. I got a whole new routine for my right side targeting ankle flexion, glute strength & quad/hip flexor mobility. So lots of homework for me to be doing. I'd like to keep the full s&c sessions going as well and i thought they would cover me but it seems not, this right side needs some dedicated work :mad: But no reason not to carry on running in the meantime so that's good.

Baby75 · 19-01-2018 02:07PM

ariana` wrote: »

I think you should go for 26. Set out at 5:10 pace and see how you're feeling as it goes, you'll know how you're feeling and if you need to you can readjust to 5:20 and 27 will still be well on.

I have 2 foam rollers and neither of them are cutting it at the moment. I'm just rolling over the knots and not getting into them. My latest torture device is a baseball :eek:

On the subject i was at physio again yesterday. I got a whole new routine for my right side targeting ankle flexion, glute strength & quad/hip flexor mobility. So lots of homework for me to be doing. I'd like to keep the full s&c sessions going as well and i thought they would cover me but it seems not, this right side needs some dedicated work :mad: But no reason not to carry on running in the meantime so that's good.

I think I will do that, I will set it up on my watch but see how I feel and can pull back a little if needed.

I am glad you can keep running and hope the exercises pay x

skyblue46 · 19-01-2018 08:41PM

Baby75 wrote: »

I think I will do that, I will set it up on my watch but see how I feel and can pull back a little if needed.

I am glad you can keep running and hope the exercises pay x

I'd agree with E. If the purpose is to see what you can do then be reasonably aggressive with pacing. You learn nothing about training paces etc by doing a comfortable 27. A minute is a lot in a 5k and if you think 26 is possible then 27 is too slow to set your initial pace on

Baby75 · 19-01-2018 08:46PM

I feel a wee bit silly asking but anyway!!

Should I taper before the 5km and should I skip my midweek session

skyblue46 · 19-01-2018 09:12PM

Baby75 wrote: »

I feel a wee bit silly asking but anyway!!

Should I taper before the 5km and should I skip my midweek session

No need to skip a session but no big miles too close. My HM plan has a speed session 4 days before the race.

Baby75 · 19-01-2018 09:20PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

No need to skip a session but no big miles too close. My HM plan has a speed session 4 days before the race.

Great I was looking forward to my midweek session and the 5km is on Sunday the 28 so I will rest Friday & Saturday

ariana` · 22-01-2018 11:03AM

It's gone quiet in here. Everyone must be too busy running

I did an 8km race yesterday, my first race since last July so i was going to use it to check my paces on the calculator but there's no option for 8k. I guess it's not a standard race distance/

Kellygirl · 22-01-2018 11:10AM

ariana` wrote: »

It's gone quiet in here. Everyone must be too busy running

I did an 8km race yesterday, my first race since last July so i was going to use it to check my paces on the calculator but there's no option for 8k. I guess it's not a standard race distance/

What about 5miles instead? 8km is 4.97 miles so you are very close.

All going well here. Getting used to these easy runs. Did my 4 miles last night at an 11:23 pace (7.09 min/km) and didn’t break a sweat at all but didn’t find it too painful either. Was quite pleasant actually. I did the exact same route last week @ 9.33. Funny the way you can chop and change.

Also a few of my friends are enjoying these easy paces so I still have company when I thought I wouldn’t have.

ariana` · 22-01-2018 11:14AM

Kellygirl wrote: »

What about 5miles instead? 8km is 4.97 miles so you are very close.

All going well here. Getting used to these easy runs. Did my 4 miles last night at an 11:23 pace (7.09 min/km) and didn’t break a sweat at all but didn’t find it too painful either. Was quite pleasant actually. I did the exact same route last week @ 9.33. Funny the way you can chop and change.

Also a few of my friends are enjoying these easy paces so I still have company when I thought I wouldn’t have.

That's great that it's going well, it'll be interesting to see as your training goes on if it makes a big difference. I found i got used to them too! Find them actually very enjoyable now. And i managed to slow my friends down a bit too, not quite to my easy pace but it's a work in progress

Yeah, i'll use the 5mi option, thanks! My watch measured a small bit over 8km anyhow so it's probably close enough.

Kellygirl · 22-01-2018 11:19AM

I’ll be interested to see if it makes much difference to your paces when you input the new pb.

DCM 2017 Graduates: Onwards and upwards!

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