What's the point of it all?

one world order · 10-12-2017 12:04pm

The US dollar like nearly all currencies has lost 96% of its value since 1913. Gold is the best store of value throughout history. One ounce gold would get you very good clothes 2,000 yrs and so too today.

Funniest statement I've heard so far is 'Fiat is backed by future GDP of a country!'. The US dollar is the worlds reserve currency, so other currencies use dollars in reserve for giving value to their own currencies . As the US dollar had to move off the gold standard it is now backed by oil.

So the US federal reserve, which is owned by the Rothschilds and some other unsavoury families print currency out of thin air, lend it to US government and charge interest. If all currency was used to repay the federal reserve it would never be enough because of the interest.

Also currency is created out of thin air when banks key numbers into a computer when given out loans and charging interest, better known as fractional reserve banking. There is far more debt in the world than actual fiat currency and it can't ever be repaid.

Cental banks around the world have pumped the financial system with massive liquidity the past 9yrs through creating new currency and debt. It's not sustainable and it will end during the next overdue recession.

It will be interesting seeing this play out over the next few years and if cryptocurrencies will be the answer. I prefer to keep a mixture of cryptos and precious metals so I'm covered either way.

Dohnjoe · 10-12-2017 12:39pm

alb wrote: »

No, you're not, the inventor of bitcoin has no control over it. You're replacing government with the will of the economic majority of the bitcoin network.

By the will of an oligarchy of greedy miners. Value is determined by an uncontrolled Wild West secondary market.

Dohnjoe · 10-12-2017 12:42pm

one world order wrote: »

The US dollar like nearly all currencies has lost 96% of its value since 1913.

Currencies are not supposed to increase in value. They are meant to be spent, not hoarded like cryptos.

cnocbui · 10-12-2017 12:52pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Currencies are not supposed to increase in value. They are meant to be spent, not hoarded like cryptos.

Tell that to governments who have allowed the richest 1% to own more than 50% of the world's wealth.

Dohnjoe · 10-12-2017 1:04pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Tell that to governments who have allowed the richest 1% to own more than 50% of the world's wealth.

And crypto solves this issue how?

daRobot · 10-12-2017 1:56pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Tell that to governments who have allowed the richest 1% to own more than 50% of the world's wealth.

And 4% of Bitcoin addresses hold 95% of BTC. No different really.

pro_gnostic_8 · 10-12-2017 2:24pm

daRobot wrote: »

And 4% of Bitcoin addresses hold 95% of BTC. No different really.

This can be a misleading stat.
Much of those 4% of wallets and the bitcoin they hold within are Exchange wallets holding btc owned by their many customers.
E.G., the richest wallet known is the Bitfinex cold wallet holding $1.7 Billion dollars worth.

kaymin · 10-12-2017 5:06pm

one world order wrote: »

Funniest statement I've heard so far is 'Fiat is backed by future GDP of a country!'. The US dollar is the worlds reserve currency, so other currencies use dollars in reserve for giving value to their own currencies . As the US dollar had to move off the gold standard it is now backed by oil.

Such nonsense. The USD has an inverse relationship to the price of oil. Also going by your logic, economic performance / GDP growth or outlook has no bearing on the strength of a country's currency since their USD reserves remain the same. Twaddle.

_Kaiser_ · 10-12-2017 8:27pm

So as a complete noob to this whole idea beyond the very high level concept, has the boat been missed at this stage and if not, what sort of investment would you need to make it at all worthwhile? Reading threads about datacentres being used to mine suggests that I may be far too late to the party?

Cheers

grindle · 10-12-2017 9:57pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

...what sort of investment would you need to make it at all worthwhile?
...
I may be far too late to the party?

How much to make it worthwhile depends on what you want out of it.
Put in whatever amount your life won't be destroyed by if the price drops by 80%

It's unlikely that you're late to the party - has Bitcoin's goal been met? Not by a long shot.

Assetbacked · 12-12-2017 4:10pm

The whole point of people getting involved in bitcoin the past few months at least is to speculate, not to adopt it as an alternative to traditional currency. In addition, perhaps some are looking to avoid AML restrictions with traditional financial transactions.

grindle · 12-12-2017 4:25pm

That's why you should take the longer view. It's not going to get smaller long term unless it's usurped. The idea is firing up in people's minds now - as long as you aren't a numpty your money is safer in your own hands than it is with a bank.

Rather: your money is actually yours, as opposed to an IOU which you have to seek permission from a bank or government to use and...oh, another pension fund halved, oopsies.

Sorry about that.

blanch152 · 12-12-2017 4:31pm

covfefe wrote: »

That's akin to saying that companies using private networks would decimate the value of the internet.

One of the core values of Bitcoin is the fact that it is a globally distributed network that isn't controlled by any government or central bank who all seem to be decimating the value of their respective currencies through reckless money printing.

Bitcoin is a hedge against that, but it is still a very risky investment so people should tread carefully.

The value of the internet is minimal.

The value of Google, Facebook and other companies exploiting the internet is vast.

Assetbacked · 16-12-2017 12:13pm

It begins to unravel;

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-moneylaundering/eu-agrees-clampdown-on-bitcoin-platforms-to-tackle-money-laundering-idUSKBN1E928M

"EU agrees clampdown on bitcoin platforms to tackle money laundering"

cnocbui · 16-12-2017 12:27pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

It begins to unravel;

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-moneylaundering/eu-agrees-clampdown-on-bitcoin-platforms-to-tackle-money-laundering-idUSKBN1E928M

"EU agrees clampdown on bitcoin platforms to tackle money laundering"

I think unraveling is over the top. It should only worry entities like Local Bitcoins. All the major exchanges already practice Know Your Customer principles for account creation.

No doubt this might have some effect four years from now when they get around to the actual doing.

Dohnjoe · 18-12-2017 6:07pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

It begins to unravel;

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-moneylaundering/eu-agrees-clampdown-on-bitcoin-platforms-to-tackle-money-laundering-idUSKBN1E928M

"EU agrees clampdown on bitcoin platforms to tackle money laundering"

This is actually good news for crypto - it forces the market infrastructure to comply, to fit in with regulations

It's like S Korea giving exchanges 6 months to adopt to new criteria and regulations, which means they are being kept "on-side", part of the eco-system

As long as exchanges can stay on the right side of regulators, then we get to have our cake (making fiat profits on secondary markets)

el diablo · 27-12-2017 3:41am

daRobot wrote: »

This video sums up some of key the issues I foresee with Bitcoin:

Jim Rickards is a gold seller, he's completely clueless on cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. of course he's anti-Bitcoin as his whole business model is threatened by the emergence of cryptocurrencies. He's been spouting the same old nonsense for years- that gold was going to soar to $10,000 per ounce.:rolleyes:
Same goes for Peter Schiff. Two bitter old gold bugs living in the past.

KilOit · 27-12-2017 9:58am

el diablo wrote: »

Jim Rickards is a gold seller, he's completely clueless on cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. of course he's anti-Bitcoin as his whole business model is threatened by the emergence of cryptocurrencies. He's been spouting the same old nonsense for years- that gold was going to soar to $10,000 per ounce.:rolleyes:
Same goes for Peter Schiff. Two bitter old gold bugs living in the past.

Wouldn't call him clueless, he made some valid points about the cost of mining and more regulation happening. Either one could crash BTC big time

Wanderer78 · 27-12-2017 10:53am

el diablo wrote:

Jim Rickards is a gold seller, he's completely clueless on cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. of course he's anti-Bitcoin as his whole business model is threatened by the emergence of cryptocurrencies. He's been spouting the same old nonsense for years- that gold was going to soar to $10,000 per ounce. Same goes for Peter Schiff. Two bitter old gold bugs living in the past.

His arguments on the current 'effective' global gold standard are interesting though, and you d have to wonder why so many individuals and countries are buying so much gold, according to him of course? It's clearly obvious, to me anyway, that the price of bitcoin is in a bubble, this could ruin it's potential and longevity, only time will tell, but it is an exciting time for money and our overall monetary systems. I'd have to agree with Bill black though, if bitcoin was our main currency during the crash, we d be in deep trouble now

What's the point of it all?

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