After BXD: The next big public transport project for Dublin?3

marno21 wrote: »

Varadkar, who started, Luas Cross City, has stated his ambitions to drastically improve public transport in Dublin in his 10 year Capital Plan.

He has namedropped:

Metro North
DART Expansion
Luas Poolbeg
Luas F (Lucan)
Luas Finglas

Which one will start next?

MN Lite will be next (hopefully) along with Bus Connects improvements

sugarman wrote: »

It should be Metro North AND Ballbriggan.

Ballbriggan is arguably needed more than Metro North to ease central housing demands. So much potential and space for development but too inaccessible with irregular wanderly wagon bus routes and undependable train services.

Ballybriggan will have a shocking frequency. I'm not sure it would help with housing demands

In the same sentence I think I heard Leo mention Metro North and the Luas to finglas. Did I hear right?

marno21 wrote: »

Level crossing removal and resignalling definitely anyway.

There are no level crossings on the Balbriggan line, which is probably why it's such an attractive proposition for the government, while offering little to the public at large.

There are 6 level crossings to remove on the Maynooth line. Ashtown is going to be the worst, I don't know whether land was ever reserved for a bridge here, but it's a real tight squeeze in the space of the current crossing, probably impossible to fit a bridge in there in fact. I wonder if this alignment would be possible:



Alternatively, maybe something could be constructed to meet the Navan Road Parkway junction? It would provide a better capacity than the Ashtown Road roundabout.

The other major ones are Coolmine Road and Clonsilla Road. Coolmine I think there's probably enough space for a bridge here, maybe they can also lower the track a little as it seems to be quite high above the canal here? Clonsilla Road, I suspect there have been solid plans for this one before as it's a heavily used car route (I know there were draft plans for all of these crossings in the past), but there's plenty of room around too.

Then there are a bunch of very minor road crossings that shouldn't be too much trouble. The old Porterstown Road one should be really simple to close, it's already "bypassed". Barberstown, there might be a couple of locals who grumble, but there is an alternative access route available that isn't too much of a diversion. Then there's another across from Intel, again a very short diversion is already available. I don't know why these 3 are still open at all to be honest.

MJohnston wrote: »

There are no level crossings on the Balbriggan line, which is probably why it's such an attractive proposition for the government, while offering little to the public at large.

There are 6 level crossings to remove on the Maynooth line. Ashtown is going to be the worst, I don't know whether land was ever reserved for a bridge here, but it's a real tight squeeze in the space of the current crossing, probably impossible to fit a bridge in there in fact. I wonder if this alignment would be possible:



Alternatively, maybe something could be constructed to meet the Navan Road Parkway junction? It would provide a better capacity than the Ashtown Road roundabout.

The other major ones are Coolmine Road and Clonsilla Road. Coolmine I think there's probably enough space for a bridge here, maybe they can also lower the track a little as it seems to be quite high above the canal here? Clonsilla Road, I suspect there have been solid plans for this one before as it's a heavily used car route (I know there were draft plans for all of these crossings in the past), but there's plenty of room around too.

Then there are a bunch of very minor road crossings that shouldn't be too much trouble. The old Porterstown Road one should be really simple to close, it's already "bypassed". Barberstown, there might be a couple of locals who grumble, but there is an alternative access route available that isn't too much of a diversion. Then there's another across from Intel, again a very short diversion is already available. I don't know why these 3 are still open at all to be honest.

Clonsilla would be good for cars as well I was stuck there for 30 mins tonight

Regarding Dart Underground...I think it's time to start thinking pragmatically about this. It doesn't seem like it's ever going to happen, and yet it's clearly a vital piece of infrastructure. It's not even being mentioned at all. Which means there's something politically preventing it from being an achievable goal. I don't know whether it's just FG, or any government, but I suspect a lot of it has to do with CIE.

So, that pragmatic thinking - what is there that can be done to expand the DART network without DART underground? Aside from linking Heuston line trains to Pearse, one of the big selling points of DU was relieving the pressure on capacity around Connolly. I think it's potentially time to start thinking about Docklands as an important station to the future of the DART network.

I think the Maynooth line in particular, if upgraded to DART, could increase frequency substantially without DU by avoiding Connolly completely. The Broombridge Luas helps enable this too - passengers that want to connect to the DART lines could switch from Docklands bound trains at BB to Luas, or use the existing Red line connection to Connolly. Seems like you could also connect the northern DART line to Docklands too, with not too much engineering work.

From the Hazelhatch line, maybe it's time to think more seriously about what the Phoenix Park Tunnel is capable of being upgraded to? If we had hybrid DARTs, capable of running without overhead lines for a short distance, does PPT become a possibility for use in Hazelhatch electrification?

In the meantime, in parallel, we have to move forward with non-CIE owned projects that reduce the other reasons for DU being a necessity.

What it should be: Dart Underground. Its the only project that has far reaching benefits on all transport links into and out of the city - not just heavy rail.

What it will be: some lower cost abomination that doesn't address the key issues i.e. increasing capacity on alternatives to the car.

MJohnston wrote: »

Regarding Dart Underground...I think it's time to start thinking pragmatically about this. It doesn't seem like it's ever going to happen, and yet it's clearly a vital piece of infrastructure. It's not even being mentioned at all. Which means there's something politically preventing it from being an achievable goal. I don't know whether it's just FG, or any government, but I suspect a lot of it has to do with CIE.

So, that pragmatic thinking - what is there that can be done to expand the DART network without DART underground? Aside from linking Heuston line trains to Pearse, one of the big selling points of DU was relieving the pressure on capacity around Connolly. I think it's potentially time to start thinking about Docklands as an important station to the future of the DART network.

I think the Maynooth line in particular, if upgraded to DART, could increase frequency substantially without DU by avoiding Connolly completely. The Broombridge Luas helps enable this too - passengers that want to connect to the DART lines could switch from Docklands bound trains at BB to Luas, or use the existing Red line connection to Connolly. Seems like you could also connect the northern DART line to Docklands too, with not too much engineering work.

From the Hazelhatch line, maybe it's time to think more seriously about what the Phoenix Park Tunnel is capable of being upgraded to? If we had hybrid DARTs, capable of running without overhead lines for a short distance, does PPT become a possibility for use in Hazelhatch electrification?

In the meantime, in parallel, we have to move forward with non-CIE owned projects that reduce the other reasons for DU being a necessity.

Is an interchange with Connolly possible where the Maynooth line to Docklands passes under the Northern Dart?

MN Next . DU as well but it wont make the financial numbers so it'll keep getting canned.

What will happen next is a reorganization of Dublin Bus with some improvements to bus lanes and a clamp down on left turning motorists, then Metro North. Cars will be banned from Bachelors walk and the NTA will build a liffey cycle route after removing that project from DCC. Rate payers should seek legal advice on suing the council for spending 7 years wasting their money on that project.

Better bus priority is needed. I drove into Dublin a couple of evenings ago and it seemed that the bus lane on left hand side of St Johns Road by Heuston station is not actually a bus lane, or rather the rules governing bus lanes just don't seem to apply to some cars. Why is that?

Also what I would like to see brought in next is integrated ticketing. Leap is out 6 years now and we were promised that the leap was the precursor to integrated ticketing, however that is yet to materialize. Do we need to scrap leap and start again? what is the reason for it's failure? and why aren't we being told more about it?

After all that basic and essentially free stuff is done I'd like to see metro north and Maynooth electrification go ahead. Electrifying Balbriggan doesn't do anything but increase journey times for everyone.

I'd like to see more city centre luas lines as opposed to suburban extensions. A second east west line on the south side and a second north-south line to the west of Capel st is required before we go branching off into the burbs.

Idbatterim wrote: »

I am dead against more city centre luas lines on surface, which they would be! Cant wait to see what businesses will have to say if they think one will run outside their door, given the experience of LCC.

Build DU, as much of a disgrace as CIE and the unions are, its too damaging for everyone to not build it, because CIE and the unions have to be tackled!

Id like to see the luas linked to bray as is planned and then also extended from broombridge to outside the m50...

I'm dead set against Luas going further than the M50. It's so slow. I'm dreading they'll plonk it out to Lucan.

Heavy rail please and lots of it.

I'd also settle for Kishoge opening at some point this side of my 40s.

re. the Ashtown crossing suggestion, youre spot on.
Heres the Irish rail proposal



from : https://navanroad.com/2015/11/20/ashtown-level-crossing/

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Oh aye. I just really hate trams.

having taken the trip from dundrum to broombridge yesterday, the amount of times they stopped at junctions when nothing else was approaching the junction and there is perfect line of sight was laughable!

traffic should have to legally yield right of way to luas at minor junctions in my opinion, where there is very good visibility for all parties...