How things have changed in 50 years!

Snickers Man · 08-12-2017 7:01pm #1

Just looking at some old footage of a match between Wales and New Zealand in 1967 and came across this nugget of information in the commentary by the late legendary Bill McClaren.

"The two heaviest packs I've ever known in an international field!"

The New Zealanders averaged "15st 8.5lbs" or 99.3kg
The Welsh averaged "15st 5.5lbs" or 97.95kg

By contrast, looking at the data from the program from the Ireland England match last season, the starting Irish pack averaged a whopping 113.25kg or 17st 11lbs in old money.
The English were even heavier, averaging 115.25kg or 18st 2lbs in old money.

That's evolution for you!! Each pack nearly 2.5 stones per man heavier nowadays. And the Irish are far from the biggest pack around.

PS The Irish would have been a little heavier if Jamie Heaslip had not had to cry off at teh last minute.

PPS Apologies for not linking this using the YouTube shortcut but I don't know how to jump to a specific part of the recording using that method.

prawnsambo · 08-12-2017 7:19pm

If you pause and right-click on the video you get a menu and one of the items is to copy the video url at the current time.

Snickers Man · 08-12-2017 7:39pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

If you pause and right-click on the video you get a menu and one of the items is to copy the video url at the current time.

Can't get it to work with the

Snickers Man · 08-12-2017 7:40pm

It works using the command as I have done in the OP with the underlined text.

prawnsambo · 08-12-2017 7:42pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Can't get it to work with the

Add the normal video code and append ?t=n where n equals the number of seconds into the video.

Snickers Man · 08-12-2017 7:55pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Add the normal video code and append ?t=n where n equals the number of seconds into the video.

I must be doing something wrong. If I leave in the https://www bit it doesn't work at all. If I take that out and put in just the Youtube video code, and the no of seconds, it just goes back to the start.

Maybe I'm being very stupid.

prawnsambo · 08-12-2017 8:02pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

I must be doing something wrong. If I leave in the https://www bit it doesn't work at all. If I take that out and put in just the Youtube video code, and the no of seconds, it just goes back to the start.

Maybe I'm being very stupid.

It could be vbulletin doesn't support it, trying below:

Edit: Yep, it works. Here's what it should look like (left out the last ] so you can see it):

Snickers Man · 08-12-2017 9:12pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

It could be vbulletin doesn't support it, trying below:

Edit: Yep, it works.

No. It doesn't. When I click on that clip it takes me to the start of the video. Singing God Save the Queen. (They don't do that in Cardiff any more!)

Maybe it's my settings. When you click on the video clip on that page does it take you to 224 seconds?

prawnsambo · 08-12-2017 9:52pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

No. It doesn't. When I click on that clip it takes me to the start of the video. Singing God Save the Queen. (They don't do that in Cardiff any more!)

Maybe it's my settings. When you click on the video clip on that page does it take you to 224 seconds?

It works for me. You probably have it open in another tab or you've played it already, sometimes that carries through. Clear your cache and refresh this page and it should work.

CatFromHue · 09-12-2017 2:06am

The study was conducted by the National Center for Health Statistics at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

So how big are we? The following figures are for Americans age 20-74:

The average height for men increased from just over 5-foot-8 in 1960 to 5-9? in 2002, while the average height for women increased from slightly over 5-3 in 1960 to 5-4 in 2002.

And the added girth:

The average weight for men rose "dramatically," in the CDC's words, from 166.3 pounds in 1960 to 191 pounds in 2002. Women went from 140.2 pounds in 1960 to 164.3 pounds in 2002.

166lbs is 75kg

so the average man in each of those packs was 20kg heavier than the average man on the street

LeinsterDub · 09-12-2017 2:54am

10-20% increase in 50 years isn't actually that big when you factor in professionalism. The nfl has registered 50 % over the same time period. www.menshealth.com/fitness/the-evolution-of-the-football-player%3famp

Yeah_Right · 09-12-2017 9:32am

I remember reading that Justin Marshall at the 1999 RWC weighed more than Sean Fitzpatrick at the 1987 RWC. Obviously professionalism has played a big part in the size increase of players. Have to say that I'm glad that in recent years we have started to see smaller faster players in the backlines. For a while it was beginning to looking like no one under a 100kg would be able to play pro rugby.

awec · 09-12-2017 10:30am

prawnsambo wrote: »

It could be vbulletin doesn't support it, trying below:

Edit: Yep, it works. Here's what it should look like (left out the last ] so you can see it):

Watched the first 5-10 minutes of that. Nothing but scrums and line outs along the far side of the pitch. Hard to watch.

prawnsambo · 09-12-2017 10:49am

awec wrote: »

Watched the first 5-10 minutes of that. Nothing but scrums and line outs along the far side of the pitch. Hard to watch.

Still fascinating to see how many of the laws have changed since then. Lineouts thrown one-handed, no appreciable gap in the lineout, no lifting and just a mad scramble for the ball.

Then you can see why the kick out on the full was stopped (except in the 22) since it was just such a slow wobble up the pitch via the touchline.

Penalties had to be touched off the ground, kick-offs taken from a placed ball, rucks looking much more like scrums and scrums very high relative to modern times and as wobbly as feck, the engage just all over the place until they're facing the right way. Very few tackles also. Just get the ball and hoof it until you manage to get to striking distance.

Sephiral · 09-12-2017 2:22pm

I am not sure that the American statistics would be the best in this context. They have a quite serious problem with obesity and nutrition which will probably not really reflect the increase in physical size due to better nutrition and healthcare generally.

These things vary a lot depending on country. For example, the Netherlands went from near the average height in Europe to the tallest nation in half a century due to diet changes.

Snickers Man · 10-12-2017 2:40am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Still fascinating to see how many of the laws have changed since then. Lineouts thrown one-handed, no appreciable gap in the lineout, no lifting and just a mad scramble for the ball.

Then you can see why the kick out on the full was stopped (except in the 22) since it was just such a slow wobble up the pitch via the touchline.

Penalties had to be touched off the ground, kick-offs taken from a placed ball, rucks looking much more like scrums and scrums very high relative to modern times and as wobbly as feck, the engage just all over the place until they're facing the right way. Very few tackles also. Just get the ball and hoof it until you manage to get to striking distance.

I don't think there was ever a law about needing to throw in two-handed. Just as well because everybody throws it in one handed today. Although not in the same style as the New Zealanders. That strange overarm style they used in the clip was still in force when the All Blacks came in 1972/73 and I saw them for the first time "in the flesh". But they were the only people throwing in that way.

I also seem to remember that there was a rule about kicking off from a placed ball. If a try was unconverted, the restart had to be with a dropped kick; otherwise a placed ball was used. I believe the thinking behind that was to let scoreboard operators, or fans in cases where there was no scoreboard, be in no doubt as to whether a conversion had been successful or not.

The scrum, too, was a complete shambles by today's standards.

OldRio · 10-12-2017 11:40am

God I feel old. Started playing Rugby 2 years after that clip.
Scrum after scrum after scrum. Yup that sums it up.

.ak · 10-12-2017 12:02pm

Anyone else notice it was the wingers throwing in the lineouts?

prawnsambo · 10-12-2017 1:50pm

.ak wrote: »

Anyone else notice it was the wingers throwing in the lineouts?

Yeah. It was for a long time up to whoever had the best throw regardless of where they played. Hookers really only nailed it down in the seventies I think.

Losty Dublin · 10-12-2017 11:06pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

I also seem to remember that there was a rule about kicking off from a placed ball. If a try was unconverted, the restart had to be with a dropped kick; otherwise a placed ball was used. I believe the thinking behind that was to let scoreboard operators, or fans in cases where there was no scoreboard, be in no doubt as to whether a conversion had been successful or not.

Interesting story to why this was so.

In the original version of rugby football, a try gave a team a "try" at kicking at goal. An attacker would punt the ball from a point on the try line parallel to where the ball was grounded to a teammate downfield; once his teammate got the ball he could then kick for goal. If the kick at goal was successful the ball was restarted off the ground from halfway; if it was unsuccessful then play would restart with a punt from underneath the posts.

As time went by and a try was garnished with points, the restart punt for an unconverted try was soon moved down to the halfway line. Once here it remained just so until 1992 when a drop kick was permitted for all restarts in game. The grounded kick off to open a half of rugby missed this amendment and stayed in place until 2002.

How things have changed in 50 years!

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