Best Club Hurling Team not to win an All Ireland

blue note · 24-11-2017 12:28pm #1

You hear the intercounty question posed often enough, but which is the best club team not to have collected the big one?

Being from Waterford, I'd have to say Mount Sion in the mid 00's had an incredible collection of players. Ken McGrath and Eoin Kelly, both HOTY nominees in their careers and Tony Browne a winner of the thing. They didn't just have intercounty lads on the team, they had some of the top intercounty lads in the country on the team. And it wasn't as if they players around them were average either.

But when you look at the great club sides over that time, you'd have put Mount Sion on a par with them on paper. It always surprises me that they never even got to a final.

So what are the other great sides to come up short - I'm sure every county reckons they have a couple. Thurles recently look like they under-achieved. I know some people think the same of Ballyboden, but I wouldn't agree.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 24-11-2017 4:02pm

In football it would have to be Clann na Gael of Roscommon in the 80s. To consistently reach so many finals, they must have been a great side. They never won it though.

Exiled1 · 24-11-2017 4:48pm

Football: Clann na Gael in the 80s, Eire Óg Carlow were exceptional in the 90s.
Hurling: Toomevara early 00s, ditto Mount Sion.

randd1 · 24-11-2017 5:39pm

blue note wrote: »

You hear the intercounty question posed often enough, but which is the best club team not to have collected the big one?

Being from Waterford, I'd have to say Mount Sion in the mid 00's had an incredible collection of players. Ken McGrath and Eoin Kelly, both HOTY nominees in their careers and Tony Browne a winner of the thing. They didn't just have intercounty lads on the team, they had some of the top intercounty lads in the country on the team. And it wasn't as if they players around them were average either.

But when you look at the great club sides over that time, you'd have put Mount Sion on a par with them on paper. It always surprises me that they never even got to a final.

So what are the other great sides to come up short - I'm sure every county reckons they have a couple. Thurles recently look like they under-achieved. I know some people think the same of Ballyboden, but I wouldn't agree.

I wouldn't agree at all, is it just the one final they've got to? They're a bit too flash in the pan, to be considered one of the best not to win it. Like the current Thurles side, some really great players but just not good enough in panel strength beyond the county.

Rathnure of Wexford and Dunloy of Antrim in the hurling would be certainly be in the mix as the best sides that never won it, brilliant and consistent sides in winning the province at their best, but never got over the line though in the big one. I think its 10 finals between them but no trophy, and had serious teams for both for the best part of a decade each.

LooseCannonUF · 24-11-2017 6:12pm

St Rynaghs in Offaly.

Exiled1 · 24-11-2017 7:45pm

LooseCannonUF wrote: »

St Rynaghs in Offaly.

Not really. Rynaghs were good but too many were too old after their only appearance against Roscrea in '71.
Forgot Rathnure in the seventies/early eighties.... a genuine powerful team who seemed to freeze on the big day in Croker. A bad habit of Wexford teams in AI finals in seventies too.

Powerhouse · 24-11-2017 8:03pm

randd1 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree at all, is it just the one final they've got to? They're a bit too flash in the pan, to be considered one of the best not to win it. Like the current Thurles side, some really great players but just not good enough in panel strength beyond the county.

Rathnure of Wexford and Dunloy of Antrim in the hurling would be certainly be in the mix as the best sides that never won it, brilliant and consistent sides in winning the province at their best, but never got over the line though in the big one. I think its 10 finals between them but no trophy, and had serious teams for both for the best part of a decade each.

Dunloy seems a very strange inclusion considering the extent of the beatings the got in those finals: 1995 - 13 points; 1996 - 13 points, 2003 - 11 points and 2004 - 8 points, and allowing for the reality that they are coming through the weakest province so have a huge chance of being in an All Ireland semi-final when they win their county.

If they had to do like (to take one example) Ballygunner had to do in Munster this year (play the winners of Tipperary, Clare and Limerick in the space of a few weeks), or what Dicksboro had to do (play the All-Ireland champions in their opening game) they would struggle to come through the province.

You are quibbling with the panel strength of Mount Sion and Thurles (and I'll have to bow to your knowledge of both panels), but I'd be surprised if Dunloy had any greater depth.

fowlerDgrowler · 24-11-2017 9:14pm

You'd have to mention the De La Salle team that lost to clarinbridge in the All Ireland semi-final. Last puck of the game in normal time to draw and then the goal as the last puck of the game. Clarinbridge won that final easy as well.

LooseCannonUF · 24-11-2017 9:32pm

Exiled1 wrote: »

Not really. Rynaghs were good but too many were too old after their only appearance against Roscrea in '71.
Forgot Rathnure in the seventies/early eighties.... a genuine powerful team who seemed to freeze on the big day in Croker. A bad habit of Wexford teams in AI finals in seventies too.

Had the competition been introduced ten, even a couple of years earlier, they would have been up there, there abouts.
Some lads from that team have 10 or 12 county medals. With Martin having the most, as he was the keeper.
During their prime, I've no doubt about it.

titan18 · 24-11-2017 10:51pm

Exiled1 wrote:

Not really. Rynaghs were good but too many were too old after their only appearance against Roscrea in '71. Forgot Rathnure in the seventies/early eighties.... a genuine powerful team who seemed to freeze on the big day in Croker. A bad habit of Wexford teams in AI finals in seventies too.

Tbf, whoever was coming out of Cork in the 70s would have been big favourites. Between Barrs, Blackrock and Glen, they were dominant that decade

PeterCasey · 25-11-2017 6:00pm

titan18 wrote: »

Tbf, whoever was coming out of Cork in the 70s would have been big favourites. Between Barrs, Blackrock and Glen, they were dominant that decade

Fenians Johnstown were beaten by St Finbarrs they had some good hurlers the Hendersons, Nicky Orr, Billy, Martin Fitzpatrick Shem and Pat Delaney, plenty of great club players that got a run with the County team it was 1974 they were beaten by the mighty Barrs in the end players like Charlie, Gerald, Mccarthy, JBM, Plenty more.

debok · 25-11-2017 11:39pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

Dunloy seems a very strange inclusion considering the extent of the beatings the got in those finals: 1995 - 13 points; 1996 - 13 points, 2003 - 11 points and 2004 - 8 points, and allowing for the reality that they are coming through the weakest province so have a huge chance of being in an All Ireland semi-final when they win their county.

If they had to do like (to take one example) Ballygunner had to do in Munster this year (play the winners of Tipperary, Clare and Limerick in the space of a few weeks), or what Dicksboro had to do (play the All-Ireland champions in their opening game) they would struggle to come through the province.

You are quibbling with the panel strength of Mount Sion and Thurles (and I'll have to bow to your knowledge of both panels), but I'd be surprised if Dunloy had any greater depth.

That mount sion panel also had Eoin magrath Brian flannery Brian greene Michael white all Munster winners with waterford as well as those named already above. They had savage panel but were coming up against a great ballygunner team with Hartley Frampton Flynn billy o Sullivan tom fives Andy maloney. Twas savage battles just too get out of the county. Then when they dud get out Munster had great teams at the time in doora bearfield ,Newtown shandrum . Dunloy wouldn't ever get out of Munster .they can catch teams on the hop in one off semi finals but there then got out in final

Stacksofwacks · 26-11-2017 12:59am

Patrickswell of Limerick had a good team in the 90's with Gary kirby, Ciaran Carey, Barry Foley they got to a few finals but dont think they actually won the AI. i remember Mullnahone from Tipp had Eoin kelly, John leahy, Paul Kelly, Brian O Meara, Paul Curran all on the team at one stage but they didnt win a whole lot maybe 1 or 2 counties.

danganabu · 28-11-2017 4:39pm

I assume the question is only in relation to since 1971, Toomevara for me, they dominated Tipp similar to how Thurles are currently but its easy to see why Thurles struggle outside of Tipp in tight, physical games in winter, but Toom should have had no such fears and really should have won at least two AI's if not more. Indiscipline cost them dearly.

danganabu · 28-11-2017 4:41pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

i remember Mullnahone from Tipp had Eoin kelly, John leahy, Paul Kelly, Brian O Meara, Paul Curran all on the team at one stage but they didnt win a whole lot maybe 1 or 2 counties.

Before Leahy's emergence they were a totally football club and infact when he started hurling at adult level they were Junior b so it was a very low starting base and was a remarkable achievement to win a senior county final within 15 years, they would never have had a strong enough panel to compete outside of Tipp.

Mehapoy · 28-11-2017 7:49pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Patrickswell of Limerick had a good team in the 90's with Gary kirby, Ciaran Carey, Barry Foley they got to a few finals but dont think they actually won the AI. i remember Mullnahone from Tipp had Eoin kelly, John leahy, Paul Kelly, Brian O Meara, Paul Curran all on the team at one stage but they didnt win a whole lot maybe 1 or 2 counties.

That Patrickswell team were good, won a rake of limerick titles and got to one or 2 finals and won a few Munsters, had Carey brothers, Kirby, Foley, Anthony carmody

MfMan · 29-11-2017 5:44pm

Not best side maybe but underachievers; Salthill won the 1990 Galway county championship at a canter and had a powerful side at the time with various county senior & underage players, including from other counties, in every line. Everyone in Galway thought they would dominate the domestic scene in the county for years to come. Lavey beat them in the AI club series, Corofin gained revenge in the county final the following year and the future was then Corofin's instead, pretty much ever since. Took Salthill years to get back to being true contenders again.

joebloggs32 · 30-11-2017 12:20am

Exiled1 wrote: »

Not really. Rynaghs were good but too many were too old after their only appearance against Roscrea in '71.
Forgot Rathnure in the seventies/early eighties.... a genuine powerful team who seemed to freeze on the big day in Croker. A bad habit of Wexford teams in AI finals in seventies too.

Rynaghs played two more finals, one of which was lost after a replay in casement park. Their team in the 70s played a major part in bringing up the standards in the Offaly county team.

feargale · 29-12-2017 3:35pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Patrickswell of Limerick had a good team in the 90's with Gary kirby, Ciaran Carey, Barry Foley they got to a few finals but dont think they actually won the AI. i remember Mullnahone from Tipp had Eoin kelly, John leahy, Paul Kelly, Brian O Meara, Paul Curran all on the team at one stage but they didnt win a whole lot maybe 1 or 2 counties.

The first Mullinahoneman to be picked for Tipp was on the county minor team in 1941.

dirtyden · 29-12-2017 8:17pm

danganabu wrote: »

I assume the question is only in relation to since 1971, Toomevara for me, they dominated Tipp similar to how Thurles are currently but its easy to see why Thurles struggle outside of Tipp in tight, physical games in winter, but Toom should have had no such fears and really should have won at least two AI's if not more. Indiscipline cost them dearly.

How they lost against ballyhale in an all Ireland semi shall always remain a mystery to me. Completely outplayed them but ballyhale stuck in there and shefflin got some great scores near end of game after Tommy Dunne was sent off. Not sure what year it was 2005 I think. Fantastic hurling game though.

thesultan · 29-12-2017 10:24pm

debok wrote: »

Powerhouse wrote: »

Dunloy seems a very strange inclusion considering the extent of the beatings the got in those finals: 1995 - 13 points; 1996 - 13 points, 2003 - 11 points and 2004 - 8 points, and allowing for the reality that they are coming through the weakest province so have a huge chance of being in an All Ireland semi-final when they win their county.

If they had to do like (to take one example) Ballygunner had to do in Munster this year (play the winners of Tipperary, Clare and Limerick in the space of a few weeks), or what Dicksboro had to do (play the All-Ireland champions in their opening game) they would struggle to come through the province.

You are quibbling with the panel strength of Mount Sion and Thurles (and I'll have to bow to your knowledge of both panels), but I'd be surprised if Dunloy had any greater depth.

That mount sion panel also had Eoin magrath Brian flannery Brian greene Michael white all Munster winners with waterford as well as those named already above. They had savage panel but were coming up against a great ballygunner team with Hartley Frampton Flynn billy o Sullivan tom fives Andy maloney. Twas savage battles just too get out of the county. Then when they dud get out Munster had great teams at the time in doora bearfield ,Newtown shandrum . Dunloy wouldn't ever get out of Munster .they can catch teams on the hop in one off semi finals but there then got out in final

Mount Sion totally underachieved with what they had. You had Ballygunner winning three in a row from 96_98. Mount sion won the following three. Loads of inter county players. In 94 they won everything in the county from u14 up. Jim Green was too cocky going up against Dunloy and was talking about all Irelands on the radio beforehand. I saw them come up against st Josephs in Fraher field but I felt Ken McGrath could never better Seanie Mc.

thesultan · 29-12-2017 10:26pm

danganabu wrote: »

I assume the question is only in relation to since 1971, Toomevara for me, they dominated Tipp similar to how Thurles are currently but its easy to see why Thurles struggle outside of Tipp in tight, physical games in winter, but Toom should have had no such fears and really should have won at least two AI's if not more. Indiscipline cost them dearly.

They played in one epic with ballyhale in portlaoise. Did BRusland get the line?

The Lost Sheep · 30-12-2017 12:21am

danganabu wrote: »

I assume the question is only in relation to since 1971, Toomevara for me, they dominated Tipp similar to how Thurles are currently but its easy to see why Thurles struggle outside of Tipp in tight, physical games in winter, but Toom should have had no such fears and really should have won at least two AI's if not more. Indiscipline cost them dearly.

Would agree with that. won 11 counties between 92 and 2008 yet won 3 munsters. Toome always had style that should have done quite well in winter and the slower more physical games and yes indisciplne cost them but was bit more than that but not sure exactly what that was.

Exiled1 · 30-12-2017 1:51pm

dirtyden wrote: »

How they lost against ballyhale in an all Ireland semi shall always remain a mystery to me. Completely outplayed them but ballyhale stuck in there and shefflin got some great scores near end of game after Tommy Dunne was sent off. Not sure what year it was 2005 I think. Fantastic hurling game though.

Was at that game. 2006. One of the great club contests. Typical performance/result for both sides. Shamrocks hurled away despite 11 point deficit at one stage and nicked points from every angle. Then discipline, as usual let Toomevara down. this time it was a totally uncharacteristic swipe by Tommy Dunne that got himself sent off. Shamrocks piled on the pressure and Henry nailed every half chance.
No doubt Toom were a wonderful side but when not allowed bully their opposition, they showed weakness.

Topcat32 · 07-01-2018 12:22pm

Exiled1 wrote: »

Was at that game. 2006. One of the great club contests. Typical performance/result for both sides. Shamrocks hurled away despite 11 point deficit at one stage and nicked points from every angle. Then discipline, as usual let Toomevara down. this time it was a totally uncharacteristic swipe by Tommy Dunne that got himself sent off. Shamrocks piled on the pressure and Henry nailed every half chance.
No doubt Toom were a wonderful side but when not allowed bully their opposition, they showed weakness.

Cha Fitzpatrick was at his brilliant best in the second half.

Best Club Hurling Team not to win an All Ireland

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