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First-time meetings, league and championship

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  • 12-11-2017 7:43pm
    #1
    laoisman11
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭


    I was a little intrigued by the number of first time meetings in the SFC this year (10 in 2017 compared to 2 in 2015 - source Wikipedia), so I decided to do a little digging.........

    So it turns out that while most teams seem to have played each other in the league:
    244rt5u.png

    The same cannot be said for the championship:
    23uom78.png

    Both combined of course result in fewer teams that have not met, with the overall award going to Waterford:
    24uzvgw.png

    For the above, I have not taken into account London, New York or Kilkenny.

    For an overall view of how many times each team has played each other in league, championship or both combined, the PDF attached has this information (warning - not suitable for mobile users!).

    By my reckoning, there remain 98 possible first-time combinations in the SFC, 6 in the league and just 4 overall (again, not taking London, New York or Kilkenny into account).

    A caveat: I have not included games that were abandoned or given as walkovers. There is also the possibility of some missing information from the earlier years.


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    #2
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,179 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Dublin are missing from your graphs but not from the pdf


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    #3
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Only teams I cannot recall Dublin footballers playing are Waterford and Antrim. That's going back to mid 70s. I suspect they were in same division as Antrim in early 70s.


    Excellent stats by the way.

    Dublin have played Mayo 14 times in SFC. Ten of those meetings have been from 1985 inclusive. Strange the way major rivalries are built. In obverse, Kerry and Cavan have met in SFC same number of times, and were the major rivalry at one time, but I think only once in last 50 years?


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    #4
    laoisman11
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Dublin are missing from your graphs but not from the pdf

    If a team is missing, it means that they have played all other teams.


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    #5
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Just as a matter of interest when is the last time Dublin played Waterford.


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    #6
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,763 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Just as a matter of interest when is the last time Dublin played Waterford.

    Never in senior football but they played in a under 21 football AI semi final in 2003 believe it or not

    We play each other frequently enough in the hurling in the league and last championship meeting was in 2015 in the AI QFs


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    #7
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Never in senior football but they played in a under 21 football AI semi final in 2003 believe it or not

    We play each other frequently enough in the hurling in the league and last championship meeting was in 2015 in the AI QFs


    I remember the 21s game, but stats refer to senior league and championship. League was very strangely structured in early 70s where you could be relegated from first division to the bottom one, as happened Dublin at least once. So they played Kilkenny the year before they won the All Ireland. So they might have played Waterford at some stage in league at that time.


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    #8
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,179 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Never in senior football but they played in a under 21 football AI semi final in 2003 believe it or not

    We play each other frequently enough in the hurling in the league and last championship meeting was in 2015 in the AI QFs

    According to Laoisman's pdf, Dublin have played Waterford four times in the NFL and once in the Championship.


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    #9
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Looking at the Wiki articles, looks like Dublin would have played Waterford in 1973-74 (when they were in the bottom division).
    They played each other in the 1898 All Ireland final which was the one and only time they've met in championship football.

    For Meath, we actually played Sligo in the championship for the first time this year so the only team (bar London and NY obviously) we haven't played in the championship is Clare.
    Are Kerry and Dublin the only two teams that have played everyone (bar KK and/or NY) in the championship at some stage.


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    #10
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,179 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Are Kerry and Dublin the only two teams that have played everyone (bar KK and/or NY) in the championship at some stage.

    Laoisman's table has 29 teams, as per response to me he has left out those who have played everyone - Dublin and Kerry - and also the three least frequent - Kilkenny, New York and London. That adds to 34. so the answer to your question is yes, unless someone can find a mistake in his work (and usually he is right).


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    #11
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,003 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Noticed a error in the OPs .PDF.

    Mayo and Clare have meet once in SFC rather than never, this year.


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    #12
    laoisman11
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Are Kerry and Dublin the only two teams that have played everyone (bar KK and/or NY) in the championship at some stage.

    From the PDF championship table, the only team that Dublin have not played against is New York, while Kerry have not played against either Kilkenny or New York.


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    #13
    laoisman11
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Noticed a error in the OPs .PDF.

    Mayo and Clare have meet once in SFC rather than never, this year.

    Good spot, cheers, must have a look at that and rectify it.


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    #14
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Looking at the Wiki articles, looks like Dublin would have played Waterford in 1973-74 (when they were in the bottom division).
    They played each other in the 1898 All Ireland final which was the one and only time they've met in championship football.

    For Meath, we actually played Sligo in the championship for the first time this year so the only team (bar London and NY obviously) we haven't played in the championship is Clare.
    Are Kerry and Dublin the only two teams that have played everyone (bar KK and/or NY) in the championship at some stage.


    Kind of thought they might have played Waterford around that stage. League in 70s threw up some very interesting games. For a few years the quarter finals included teams from all the divisions. Remember seeing Cork playing Armagh and Galway playing Antrim in quarter finals in 1976. Think Dublin beat Galway in semi final and Derry in final. Seeing Armagh and Antrim was pretty exotic in those times.

    Kilkenny were pretty prominent in Leinster in early years so that's when Dublin would have played them in championship.

    Fair play laoisman. Very interesting stuff.


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    #15
    Doltanian
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Doltanian


    Kerry has played every team in Ireland except Kilkenny. Kerry have also played London and Kerry have defeated every single team in Ireland except Down and Kerry have a positive win record over every team they have met recording more wins than defeats over every county bar Down.


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    #16
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,003 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Doltanian wrote: »
    Kerry has played every team in Ireland except Kilkenny. Kerry have also played London and Kerry have defeated every single team in Ireland except Down and Kerry have a positive win record over every team they have met recording more wins than defeats over every county bar Down.


    The Down one is odd.

    It even happened as recently as 2010, when Kerry were defending All Ireland champions.

    In 2017 Kerry lost for the first time in 21 years in the championship to Mayo.

    Mayo were wearing red and black.


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    #17
    mickmackey1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    The spirit of Jimmy Magee lives on! Great work Laoisman.


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    #18
    Doltanian
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Doltanian


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    The Down one is odd.

    It even happened as recently as 2010, when Kerry were defending All Ireland champions.

    In 2017 Kerry lost for the first time in 21 years in the championship to Mayo.

    Mayo were wearing red and black.

    Down are an unusual county in that they come good only very rarely and have often met understrength and an of era Kerry team as occurred back in 1991 also, but you really have to hand it to them they have a phenomenal record against Kerry. Back in 2010 when Kerry were drawn against Down my father immediately said you might aswell stay at home as he remembered well the 1960's and the hoodoo held firm that day, a small bit like the Mayo curse. I was fully expecting Kerry to win handily that day and was very surprised, Its known as the Down hoodoo in Kerry.

    Similarly back in 2012 when Kerry defeated Tyrone in Killarney there was joyus celebrations as Tyrone had built up a hoodoo over Kerry defeating them in 2003, 2005 and 2008, however in 2012 and 2015 Kerry were victorious.

    In more recent times there is a new Dublin hoodoo after emerging with Dublin winning the last 4 encounters.


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    #19
    dog_pig
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭dog_pig


    Doltanian wrote: »
    Kerry has played every team in Ireland except Kilkenny. Kerry have also played London and Kerry have defeated every single team in Ireland except Down and Kerry have a positive win record over every team they have met recording more wins than defeats over every county bar Down.

    If you're talking about SFC then Kerry and Donegal have played twice, one win each?


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    #20
    Doltanian
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Doltanian


    dog_pig wrote: »
    If you're talking about SFC then Kerry and Donegal have played twice, one win each?

    Yes, however Kerry defeated Donegal in an-Ireland Final in the most recent encounter which puts Kerry ahead in the fixture standing.


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    #21
    dog_pig
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭dog_pig


    Doltanian wrote: »
    Yes, however Kerry defeated Donegal in an-Ireland Final in the most recent encounter which puts Kerry ahead in the fixture standing.

    Regardless of how you're judging it, below isn't accurate:
    Doltanian wrote: »
    Kerry have a positive win record over every team they have met recording more wins than defeats over every county bar Down.


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    #22
    laoisman11
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    I finally got around to fixing the bugs in this, and I have added in the 2018 league games.

    League
    ztyey0.png

    Championship
    2jahpoj.png

    Both combined
    24yqt7a.png

    For the above, I have not taken into account London, New York or Kilkenny.

    For an overall view of how many times each team has played each other in league, championship or both combined, the attached PDF has this information, including those for London, New York and Kilkenny (warning - not suitable for mobile users!).

    By my reckoning, there remain 89 possible first-time combinations in the SFC, 6 in the league and just 4 overall (again, not taking London, New York or Kilkenny into account).

    A caveat: I have not included games that were abandoned or given as walkovers. There is also the possibility of some missing information from the earlier years.


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