Are we over the annual poppy thread?

not yet · 08-11-2017 02:10PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

I don't think murder is something to trivialize.

Of course they murdered innocent people, the facts don't lie on that. I believe in capital punishment, so yes.

That's fair enough..

not yet · 08-11-2017 02:12PM

Odhinn wrote: »

The vast majority of British military action over the last few centuries was in connection with empire, one way or another. This is their fourth time round in the area now known as Afghanistan.

Ah, the aul rape and pillage never goes out of fashion..

Timberrrrrrrr · 08-11-2017 03:39PM

not yet wrote: »

Do you agree men in the BA shot and killed innocent people, Aidan McAnespie maybe..? If your answer is yes does it then follow these men should be Hanged.

Would you call for your republican hero's who killed innocent people over the years to be hanged?

Seems the Germans don't have an issue with the poppy

Check out @ladbible’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/ladbible/status/928281289366605824?s=09

A Little Pony · 08-11-2017 03:53PM

Odhinn wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The fundamental flaw with this is the British Army faces groups like the ISIS and Al Qaeda and the PIRA in the past and some wars are worth fighting for, such as WW2 and the Falkands War. The idea that war should never happen is one born out of naivety and utopia delusions.

.

The vast majority of British military action over the last few centuries was in connection with empire, one way or another. This is their fourth time round in the area now known as Afghanistan.

More than a few centuries if you count in the glorious Kingdom of England.

A Dub in Glasgo · 08-11-2017 03:53PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Seems the Germans don't have an issue with the poppy

Already highlighted and discussed earlier in the thread

A Little Pony · 08-11-2017 03:58PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

not yet wrote: »

Do you agree men in the BA shot and killed innocent people, Aidan McAnespie maybe..? If your answer is yes does it then follow these men should be Hanged.

Would you call for your republican hero's who killed innocent people over the years to be hanged?

Seems the Germans don't have an issue with the poppy

Check out @ladbible’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/ladbible/status/928281289366605824?s=09

Germany lost more men than the British Empire during the war, a war they didn't recover from until very late in the 20th century, Britain too, our Empire lessened and WW2 finished it off.

not yet · 08-11-2017 04:10PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Would you call for your republican hero's who killed innocent people over the years to be hanged?

Seems the Germans don't have an issue with the poppy

Check out @ladbible’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/ladbible/status/928281289366605824?s=09

Cool your jets there Susan, I never called for anyone to be hung. I'd kindly request you go back and read it again..

You know the old saying measure once cut twice, or is it Measure- well you know what I mean.

I'd imagine the Germans just want an easy life..

not yet · 08-11-2017 04:44PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Germany lost more men than the British Empire during the war, a war they didn't recover from until very late in the 20th century, Britain too, our Empire lessened and WW2 finished it off.

Would you mind if I ask a serious question..

Why do you insist on using an outdated term like the British Empire, I honestly find it cringe worthy.

A Little Pony · 08-11-2017 04:45PM

not yet wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Germany lost more men than the British Empire during the war, a war they didn't recover from until very late in the 20th century, Britain too, our Empire lessened and WW2 finished it off.

Would you mind if I ask a serious question..

Why do you insist on using an outdated term like the British Empire, I honestly find it cringe worthy.

It was the British Empire, I'm hardly going to call it Spain or New Zealand am I?

not yet · 08-11-2017 04:49PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

It was the British Empire, I'm hardly going to call it Spain or New Zealand am I?

You can call it Zanibar for all I care but most people would stick to Britain.

not yet · 08-11-2017 04:50PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Germany lost more men than Britain Empire during the war, a war they didn't recover from until very late in the 20th century, Britain too, our Empire lessened and WW2 finished it off.

See...!! it works just as well.

A Little Pony · 08-11-2017 04:53PM

not yet wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

It was the British Empire, I'm hardly going to call it Spain or New Zealand am I?

You can call it Zanibar for all I care but most people would stick to Britain.

Get over it.

not yet · 08-11-2017 04:55PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Get over it.

Rule Britannia eh..

maryishere · 08-11-2017 07:22PM

robinph wrote: »

Well the German football team don't seem to have a problem with the poppy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41914544

The Germans were not as badly oppressed by the British as James McLean and his community were. The British army in N. Ireland lost over a thousand dead and thousands more injured, mostly through no-warning bombs, proxy bombs, snipers, booby traps under family cars of reservists, etc. The British military killed 305 in N. Ireland over 38 years ie about 9 people per year. Of the total 305 killed between 1969 to 2007:
156 (~51%) were civilians
127 (~41%) were members of republican paramilitaries, including:
110 members of the Provisional Irish Republican Army
11 members of the Official Irish Republican Army
5 members of the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA)
1 member of the Irish People's Liberation Organisation (IPLO)
13 (~4%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries, including:
7 members of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA)
6 members of the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
2 were Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) officers

The Germans soccer team with be wearing the Poppy in a few days time because they were not as badly oppressed. Good on them.

DFB president Reinhard Grindel said: 'I positively welcome the decision to allow both the English and the German national teams to wear poppy armbands, because these are not about political propaganda in any way.
'They're about remembering the kind of values that were kicked to the ground in two World Wars but are cherished by football: respect, tolerance, and humanity.'

indioblack · 08-11-2017 07:26PM

not yet wrote: »

See...!! it works just as well.

But less accurately. The British empire was still in being during WW2.
Therefore, if criticisms of British imperialism is merited in other periods of history, it should also apply in WW2. The term may be unpleasant, but it is not inaccurate in the time frame the poster referenced.

not yet · 08-11-2017 07:34PM

indioblack wrote: »

But less accurately. The British empire was still in being during WW2.
Therefore, if criticisms of British imperialism is merited in other periods of history, it should also apply in WW2. The term may be unpleasant, but it is not inaccurate in the time frame the poster referenced.

Fair point.

maryishere · 08-11-2017 07:38PM

not yet wrote: »

Why do you insist on using an outdated term like the British Empire,

Well in WW2 there was a huge contribution to the war effort from around the world, from Canada for example (over the course of the war over 1.6 million Canadians served in uniform (out of a prewar population of 11 million). By the end of the war, almost a million Australians had served in the armed forces (out of a population of under 7 million). 2.5 million Indians served. Many New Zealanders, Rhodesians, etc served, as did many from other countries.
Italy, Spain, Holland, Portugal, Belgium etc all had colonies / empires too.

not yet · 08-11-2017 07:39PM

maryishere wrote: »

The Germans were not as badly oppressed by the British as James McLean and his community were. The British army in N. Ireland lost over a thousand dead and thousands more injured, mostly through no-warning bombs, proxy bombs, snipers, booby traps under family cars of reservists, etc. The British military killed 305 in N. Ireland over 38 years ie about 9 people per year. Of the total 305 killed between 1969 to 2007:
156 (~51%) were civilians
127 (~41%) were members of republican paramilitaries, including:
110 members of the Provisional Irish Republican Army
11 members of the Official Irish Republican Army
5 members of the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA)
1 member of the Irish People's Liberation Organisation (IPLO)
13 (~4%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries, including:
7 members of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA)
6 members of the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
2 were Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) officers

The Germans soccer team with be wearing the Poppy in a few days time because they were not as badly oppressed. Good on them.

DFB president Reinhard Grindel said: 'I positively welcome the decision to allow both the English and the German national teams to wear poppy armbands, because these are not about political propaganda in any way.
'They're about remembering the kind of values that were kicked to the ground in two World Wars but are cherished by football: respect, tolerance, and humanity.'

So what your saying is of all the people killed by the BA over half were innocent civilians..

tomwaterford · 08-11-2017 07:40PM

maryishere wrote: »

Well in WW2 there was a huge contribution to the war effort from around the world,.

So in a world war,countries from around the world participated?

In other news,the sky is blue?

maryishere · 08-11-2017 07:46PM

not yet wrote: »

So what your saying is of all the people killed by the BA over half were innocent civilians..

Yes, and Republicans killed far more innocent civilians than the BA did. In fact Republicans done most of the killing in Ireland, and most of the damage to property.

Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:
1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
723 (~35%) were civilians
187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces

maryishere · 08-11-2017 07:48PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

So in a world war,countries from around the world participated?

In other news,the sky is blue?

"Not yet" asked another poster why they were "using an outdated term like the British Empire". I explained for the poster "not yet".

not yet · 08-11-2017 07:57PM

maryishere wrote: »

Yes, and Republicans killed far more innocent civilians than the BA did. In fact Republicans done most of the killing in Ireland, and most of the damage to property.

Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:
1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
723 (~35%) were civilians
187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces

You do realise of course that loyalist dead squads killed more civilians then Republicans..?

end of the road · 08-11-2017 07:58PM

maryishere wrote: »

The British army in N. Ireland lost over a thousand dead and thousands more injured, mostly through no-warning bombs, proxy bombs, snipers, booby traps under family cars of reservists, etc. The British military killed 305 in N. Ireland over 38 years ie about 9 people per year. Of the total 305 killed between 1969 to 2007:
156 (~51%) were civilians
127 (~41%) were members of republican paramilitaries, including:
110 members of the Provisional Irish Republican Army
11 members of the Official Irish Republican Army
5 members of the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA)
1 member of the Irish People's Liberation Organisation (IPLO)
13 (~4%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries, including:
7 members of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA)
6 members of the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
2 were Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) officers

nope. 99% of people killed by the BA were civilians. only about 5 were republicans and no loyalists or RUC were killed by the BA.

maryishere wrote: »

Yes, and Republicans killed far more innocent civilians than the BA did. In fact Republicans done most of the killing in Ireland, and most of the damage to property.

Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:
1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
723 (~35%) were civilians
187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces

the BA RUC and loyalists killed more innocence then republicans ever could have. the loyalists did lots of damage as well.

not yet · 08-11-2017 08:01PM

maryishere wrote: »

Yes, and Republicans killed far more innocent civilians than the BA did. In fact Republicans done most of the killing in Ireland, and most of the damage to property.

Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:
1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
723 (~35%) were civilians
187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces

Of those killed by British security forces:

187 (~51.5%) were civilians
145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces

Of those killed by loyalist paramilitaries:

878 (~85.4%) were civilians
94 (~9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
41 (~4%) were members of republican paramilitaries
14 (~1%) were members of the British security forces

Ain't facts and figures great..

indioblack · 08-11-2017 08:13PM

not yet wrote: »

Fair point.

It muddies the waters, though. If opposition to the Third Reich is considered worthy of commemoration, this would have to logically include being aware that Britain was an imperial power at the time. Like most things in history, it's seldom black and white.

maryishere · 08-11-2017 08:18PM

end of the road wrote: »

nope. 99% of people killed by the BA were civilians. only about 5 were republicans and no loyalists or RUC were killed by the BA.

Wrong.

If you look at total deaths:
Responsible party
Republican paramilitary groups 2058
Loyalist paramilitary groups 1027
British security forces 363
Persons unknown 79
Irish security forces 5
Total 3532

If you look at those killed by British security forces:
187 (~51.5%) were civilians
145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

That is over almost 4 decades of the troubles. In addition,99% of damage to property, totaling billions of pounds, (economic targets) was caused by Republicans.

The German soccer team are wearing the Poppy in a few days time, they are obviously not considering themselves MOPS ( most oppressed people ever ).

end of the road · 08-11-2017 08:24PM

maryishere wrote: »

Wrong.

If you look at total deaths:
Responsible party
Republican paramilitary groups 2058
Loyalist paramilitary groups 1027
British security forces 363
Persons unknown 79
Irish security forces 5
Total 3532

If you look at those killed by British security forces:
187 (~51.5%) were civilians
145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

That is over almost 4 decades of the troubles. In addition,99% of damage to property, totaling billions of pounds, (economic targets) was caused by Republicans.

The German soccer team are wearing the Poppy in a few days time, they are obviously not considering themselves MOPS ( most oppressed people ever ).

99% of people killed by the BA were civilians. only about 5 were republicans and no loyalists or RUC were killed by the BA. i don't care about the german team, they aren't relevant to me.

maryishere · 08-11-2017 08:36PM

end of the road wrote: »

9951.5% of people killed by the BA security forces were civilians. only about 5 145 were republicans and no 18 loyalists or and 13 RUC security forces were killed by the BA / security forces. i don't care about the german team, they aren't relevant to me.

Fixed that for you.

not yet · 08-11-2017 08:39PM

maryishere wrote: »

Fixed that for you.

Ya fixed it badly though...

maryishere · 08-11-2017 08:50PM

end of the road wrote: »

. only about 5 were republicans

Do you not remember the dozens and dozens and dozens of IRA funerals alone? Even well known PIRA like the 8 at Loughgall, the 3 at Gibralter, etc etc.
The East Tyrone PIRA Brigade lost 28 members killed by British forces in the period 1987–1992.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign

Are we over the annual poppy thread?

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