Are we over the annual poppy thread?

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 04:57PM

markodaly wrote: »

It being forced on you by the mere fact by seeing it on the street and that you find it offensive and if the wearer of the poppy didn't take it off, then its forced on you.

Am I leaving anything out?

No, wrong. Go back and read again.

markodaly · 04-11-2017 05:05PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, wrong. Go back and read again.

Am I not correct?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If I tell them I find it offensive and they continue to wear it, they are forcing it on me.

Your own words, right there.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 05:16PM

markodaly wrote: »

Am I not correct?

Your own words, right there.

Now find where I would have the right to ask that.

You are doing ok, just stick with it.

And by the way, you seem to have a need to have a personal rant at somebody, but it isn't just about me. There are many, who have issues with the poppy.

A Little Pony · 04-11-2017 05:20PM

markodaly wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, wrong. Go back and read again.

Am I not correct?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If I tell them I find it offensive and they continue to wear it, they are forcing it on me.

Your own words, right there.

Caught out and yes, that is what he said. Everyone else in the thread just laughed. But people hate Britain so much that rationality doesn't come into it, they see the Poppy as a British symbol and so it must be destroyed, people who wear it must not be allowed to wear it.

markodaly · 04-11-2017 05:25PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Now find where I would have the right to ask that.

You can ask that in pretty much any European and liberal country. I can ask someone on the street to not wear white socks with black shoes, but doesn't mean they will entertain me.

"OMG, he is FORCING his bad fashion sense against me, HEEEELP, I am being oppressed"

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 05:31PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Caught out and yes, that is what he said. Everyone else in the thread just laughed. But people hate Britain so much that rationality doesn't come into it, they see the Poppy as a British symbol and so it must be destroyed, people who wear it must not be allowed to wear it.

You missed the bit about location too.

Oh well, such is the desperation to take the glare away from what poppy wearers are signed up to.

'WEAR YOUR POPPY TO SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR THE ARMED FORCES PAST AND PRESENT.'

Can you get any more 'British' than that?
Let's at least be honest here.

A Little Pony · 04-11-2017 06:09PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Caught out and yes, that is what he said. Everyone else in the thread just laughed. But people hate Britain so much that rationality doesn't come into it, they see the Poppy as a British symbol and so it must be destroyed, people who wear it must not be allowed to wear it.

You missed the bit about location too.

Oh well, such is the desperation to take the glare away from what poppy wearers are signed up to.

'WEAR YOUR POPPY TO SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR THE ARMED FORCES PAST AND PRESENT.'

Can you get any more 'British' than that?
Let's at least be honest here.

Why do you care so much? It's bizarre.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 06:18PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Why do you care so much? It's bizarre.

About as much as you care about Dev's place in history?

It is a bizarre thing to ask someone on a 'discussion' forum though,.

kingchess · 04-11-2017 06:24PM

I have to ask again why the hell would any Irish people want to give money to ex British soldiers?. They are not our Soldiers ,they are not under the control of the Dail,they do not obey our orders if we were stupid enough to give them orders,So why are they deserving of our charity again?? And I have no problem with any British person wearing a poppy around the wilds of West Cork,or any other part of Ireland, because as British people they are paying respect to their own Army and fair play to them for supporting ex soldiers who obeyed the orders of their Government in the likes of Northern Ireland, Iraq etc.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 06:27PM

The sheer hypocrisy of someone in the DUP talking about 'freedom" when they are doing what they are doing in northern Ireland

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/peace-activists-miss-point-of-red-poppies-says-dups-gregory-campbell-36287498.html

Jawgap · 04-11-2017 06:36PM

kingchess wrote: »

I have to ask again why the hell would any Irish people want to give money to ex British soldiers?. They are not our Soldiers ,they are not under the control of the Dail,they do not obey our orders if we were stupid enough to give them orders,So why are they deserving of our charity again?? And I have no problem with any British person wearing a poppy around the wilds of West Cork,or any other part of Ireland, because as British people they are paying respect to their own Army and fair play to them for supporting ex soldiers who obeyed the orders of their Government in the likes of Northern Ireland, Iraq etc.

Because it's not just ex-squaddies who get a dig out.

An uncle of mine served on the Arctic convoys before spending nearly 40 years working for Irish Shipping and a few other companies.

When he got seriously ill, and was terminal the best the HSE could offer him and his family was a public hospital ward.....my auntie was contacting the RBL to try and trace former shipmates and arrange for his pension to be stopped in due course......when they heard what has happening they swung into action, liaised with the HSE and made and paid for the necessary arrangements to get him home and give him and his family some dignity in his final week.

That's one reason I wear my poppy and make a small donation in his name each year.

A Little Pony · 04-11-2017 06:39PM

kingchess wrote: »

I have to ask again why the hell would any Irish people want to give money to ex British soldiers?. They are not our Soldiers ,they are not under the control of the Dail,they do not obey our orders if we were stupid enough to give them orders,So why are they deserving of our charity again?? And I have no problem with any British person wearing a poppy around the wilds of West Cork,or any other part of Ireland, because as British people they are paying respect to their own Army and fair play to them for supporting ex soldiers who obeyed the orders of their Government in the likes of Northern Ireland, Iraq etc.

A very simplistic view to take on the history of Ireland and why Irish people wear the poppy of which includes multiple reasons and I would like to think people are smart enough to know this.

Over 100 thousand Irish men fought in the British Army in WW1, the impact on Irish society was huge, so many Irish people will have ancestors who fought in the trenches, it really isn't that complicated to think people who want to remember them would wear a poppy.

Ireland has a complex history, it isn't just as simple as "why would any Irish person wear it" when at that time the whole island of Ireland was within the Empire. Thousands of Irish men thought very little of it to go and serve in the British Army, particularly Protestant tradition in Ulster. Many actively wanted to sign up and fight for king and country as they saw it.
I attended a museum event last year which had an orange sash on display which was found on the battlefield, over 5 victoria cross recipients who represented the orange. That is why you have a lot of Irish people who wear the poppy and attend events involving the poppy, fund the RBL with donations.

Others who don't like it don't have to wear it, don't have to attend events in which it features, just like I don't attend Irish Republican commemorations, if you disagree with it, you are entitled to express that opinion, just as those of us who do wear it or put funds towards it with charity events are entitled to reflect on our history.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 06:40PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Because it's not just ex-squaddies who get a dig out.

An uncle of mine served on the Arctic convoys before spending nearly 40 years working for Irish Shipping and a few other companies.

When he got seriously ill, and was terminal the best the HSE could offer him and his family was a public hospital ward.....my auntie was contacting the RBL to try and trace former shipmates and arrange for his pension to be stopped in due course......when they heard what has happening they swung into action, liaised with the HSE and made and paid for the necessary arrangements to get him home and give him and his family some dignity in his final week.

That's one reason I wear my poppy and make a small donation in his name each year.

Plenty of charities work away in the background but don't ask you to wear a symbol to show support for past and present members of the Armed Forces.

You chose to comply with this request. Why spectacularly miss the point?

markodaly · 04-11-2017 06:43PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You missed the bit about location too.

The Republic of Ireland is a country that has a constitution which enshrines and protects freedom of expression. So, it does not matter how offended you are about a poppy or how many times you ask a person to remove it or how much you think its then forced upon you. It does not really matter

The constitution protects that persons right to wear a poppy.

Jawgap · 04-11-2017 06:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Plenty of charities work away in the background but don't ask you to wear a symbol to show support for past and present members of the Armed Forces.

You chose to comply with this request. Why spectacularly miss the point?

No, and neither does the RBL. They'll quite happily accept my donation without making it conditional on me wearing / not wearing a poppy. I wear it because I choose to.....just like I wear my Deora Dé in July when I make a small donation to ONE/Brú na Bhfiann......maybe someone will see it and prompt a subsequent donation.

indioblack · 04-11-2017 06:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Actually it isn't particularly, any of the many countries the British were in would have the same issues.

And they may have forums to air these issues .
On Boards the one thread guaranteed to be used on an annual basis is this one.
Once again, on a practical level, what is required? What can be done, if practicable ?

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 06:49PM

markodaly wrote: »

The Republic of Ireland is a country that has a constitution which enshrines and protects freedom of expression. So, it does not matter how offended you are about a poppy or how many times you ask a person to remove it or how much you think its then forced upon you. It does not really matter

The constitution protects that persons right to wear a poppy.

Have I called for it to be banned?

Get your facts straight before ranting. That's the end of my engaging with your miscomprehension.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 06:57PM

Jawgap wrote: »

No, and neither does the RBL. They'll quite happily accept my donation without making it conditional on me wearing / not wearing a poppy. I wear it because I choose to.....just like I wear my Deora Dé in July when I make a small donation to ONE/Brú na Bhfiann......maybe someone will see it and prompt a subsequent donation.

So why not a Lily? If you pay for one it goes to the National Graves Association.

Jawgap · 04-11-2017 07:05PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So why not a Lily? If you pay for one it goes to the National Graves Association.

They don't help people, do they?

The RBL helped a family member, ONE helps ex-soldiers who've fallen on hard times......the NGA works to......

To restore, where necessary, and maintain fittingly the graves and memorials of our patriot dead of every generation.

To commemorate those who died in the cause of Irish freedom.

To compile a record of such graves and memorials

Plus where are their accounts published?

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 07:08PM

Jawgap wrote: »

They don't help people, do they?

The RBL helped a family member, ONE helps ex-soldiers who've fallen on hard times......the NGA works to......

Plus where are their accounts published?

I'm sure well kept graves helps people.

I don't know if the NGA publish accounts.
You need to see the accounts of every org you give small amounts of donations to?

Jawgap · 04-11-2017 07:15PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm sure well kept graves helps people.

I don't know if the NGA publish accounts.
You need to see the accounts of every org you give small amounts of donations to?

Yes, I do. I want to see any money I give is spent locally.

Yes, I'm sure we'll kept graves and memorials help families and individuals struggling to keep a roof over their heads or arrange palliative care :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 07:26PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, I do. I want to see any money I give is spent locally.

Yes, I'm sure we'll kept graves and memorials help families and individuals struggling to keep a roof over their heads or arrange palliative care :rolleyes:

You know how much a Lily costs? We aren't talking life and death figures here. A euro will get you several of them maybe.

But thanks for the image of you asking to see their accounts before you donate.

yabbav · 04-11-2017 07:45PM

only scobies hate the poppy

drumaneen · 04-11-2017 11:35PM

Irish Poppy donations working in Ireland:
Remembering the Fallen, Caring for the Living
https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/news/royal-british-legion-announces-republic-ireland-fund

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 11:55PM

drumaneen wrote: »

Irish Poppy donations working in Ireland:
Remembering the Fallen, Caring for the Living
https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/news/royal-british-legion-announces-republic-ireland-fund

An NGA for British war dead. Has Jawgap checked the accounts?

05-11-2017 12:06AM

drumaneen wrote: »

Irish Poppy donations working in Ireland:
Remembering the Fallen, Caring for the Living
https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/news/royal-british-legion-announces-republic-ireland-fund

I notice they specifically mention ww1 & 2 in that piece. Being careful because its the RoI I wonder?

Junkyard Tom · 05-11-2017 12:07AM

Leaving aside the atrocities committed against the Irish people by British forces why is there a need for the RBL charity at all? Surely the British state should be taking care of the memory of those who've 'fallen' and those who've fallen on hard times?

FrancieBrady · 05-11-2017 12:14AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Leaving aside the atrocities committed against the Irish people by British forces why is there a need for the RBL charity at all? Surely the British state should be taking care of the memory of those who've 'fallen' and those who've fallen on hard times?

I'm watching the Vietnam war series and it seems the caring empire builders don't give much of a **** about you after you serve honourably. They'll give you an exuberant and glorious grave though.

Junkyard Tom · 05-11-2017 12:53AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm watching the Vietnam war series and it seems the caring empire builders don't give much of a **** about you after you serve honourably. They'll give you an exuberant and glorious grave though.

Disposable heroes.

Jawgap · 05-11-2017 05:53AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

An NGA for British war dead. Has Jawgap checked the accounts?

Actually, the CWGC are probably more the equivalent of the NGA.

And it's always been the case that money donated to the RBL in Ireland stays in Ireland. Plus the fact remains that even if the RBL are funding initiatives that support commemoration, the bulk of funds still go towards helping actual people and their families.

And given the recent charity scandals here, I'd say there's nothing wrong with checking a charity's accounts before donating to see if your comfortable with what they're doing, where and how much they spend on admin. It's like the crowd I do a bit of voluntary work for - I deliberately picked one that's local and spends less than 5% of money raised on admin/overheads.

Are we over the annual poppy thread?

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