Are we over the annual poppy thread?

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 12:37AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Has the RBL ever come out and condemned the use of the poppy on memorials to unionist murder gangs in the north?

The Irish poppy wearer is in some very dubious company, no doubt.

Junkyard Tom · 04-11-2017 12:40AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

McGregor is not sporting the poppy tonight.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was 'press-ganged' into wearing it by some clown form BT Sports where UFC fights are shown.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 12:45AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if he was 'press-ganged' into wearing it by some clown form BT Sports where UFC fights are shown.

Like Roy Keane. The whole thing has long ago been devalued by that alone. Roy Keane supporting British Armed Forces past and present? Does anyone buy that?

04-11-2017 12:45AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Has the RBL ever come out and condemned the use of the poppy on memorials to unionist murder gangs in the north?

Probably not, but they should do.

And so should Sinn Féin come out and condemn the decoration of P/IRA-members graves' with the Easter Lily, perhaps. The lily is placed there by the 'National Graves Association', which maintains the graves of the likes of Seán Russell, who died aboard a Nazi U-Boat.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 12:53AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Probably not, but they should do.

And so should Sinn Féin come out and condemn the decoration of P/IRA-members graves' with the Easter Lily, perhaps. The lily is placed there by the 'National Graves Association', which maintains the graves of the likes of Seán Russell, who died aboard a Nazi U-Boat.

Genuine query: SF own the lily do they not? It is like the poppy - partisan, and therefore not reflective of everyone.

Junkyard Tom · 04-11-2017 12:58AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

And so should Sinn F come out and condemn the decoration of P/IRA-members graves' with the Easter Lily, perhaps.

I could ask what the substantive differences were between the virtuous 'old' IRA and the PIRA but I won't in favour of asking why you're bringing up the Easter Lilly in a thread about the Poppy?

04-11-2017 01:06AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Genuine query: SF own the lily do they not? It is like the poppy - partisan, and therefore not reflective of everyone.

Not quite sure if any Taoiseach or President has ever laid a wreath of lilies, but I know they have been visible in and around my homeplace (North Tipp) for many years, and yes, usually affiliated with Sinn Féin.

i fully agree with you that the poppy is divisive, no question about it. My only point is that I can no more defend the appearance of the poppy on the memorial stone of some UFF thugs, than a republican can defend the display of the Easter Lily on the grave of Seán Russell.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I could ask what the substantive differences were between the virtuous 'old' IRA and the PIRA but I won't in favour of asking why you're bringing up the Easter Lilly in a thread about the Poppy?

Because they're both divisive, and both are well-meaning symbols, that seek to commemorate wasted sacrifice, in conflicts that ought to have been resolved politically.

As I've said previously, I don't understand the reticence about the Easter Lily. My problem is not with the Easter Lily at all. I think it's a fitting tribute to a lot of Irish republicans who felt they had no choice but resort to the use of force, to achieve freedom.

Junkyard Tom · 04-11-2017 01:09AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

They're both divisive, and both are well-meaning symbols, that seek to commemorate wasted sacrifice, in conflicts that ought to have been resolved politically.

This thread is about Poppy day week month, focus for goodness sake.

04-11-2017 01:13AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This thread is about Poppy day week month, focus for goodness sake.

I know that. I'm just illustrating a point, or trying to. I can't defend the misuse of the poppy by some unionist thugs, no more than a republican can defend the misuse of the lily. It's just an example, not a deflection.

tomwaterford · 04-11-2017 01:13AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Genuine query: SF own the lily do they not? It is like the poppy - partisan, and therefore not reflective of everyone.

Sinn fein do not own the easter lily...noone deos

There's plenty people who died fighting for ireland would have nathin to do with SF

Anyone who had any issues regards money with it,should have the option of going online and printing one out for free (pretty sure it's an unoffial policy to give them out free to those who can't afford it)

It's not about the money,only to remember irelands patriot dead

Rumpy Pumpy · 04-11-2017 01:16AM

Is this now the second generation of Nordies giving out about shte that no one cares about?

Progress of a sort.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 09:36AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Sinn fein do not own the easter lily...noone deos

There's plenty people who died fighting for ireland would have nathin to do with SF

Anyone who had any issues regards money with it,should have the option of going online and printing one out for free (pretty sure it's an unoffial policy to give them out free to those who can't afford it)

It's not about the money,only to remember irelands patriot dead

Was reading about it there. It was introduced by Cumann Na mBan in 1925 to raise funds for prisoners.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 09:38AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I know that. I'm just illustrating a point, or trying to. I can't defend the misuse of the poppy by some unionist thugs, no more than a republican can defend the misuse of the lily. It's just an example, not a deflection.

You can condemn it, because it is a direct result of the intention/ meaning of the badge.

That intention (to show support for Armed forces Past and Present) makes the poppy particularly odious to some on this island. And rightly so, in all fairness.

NIMAN · 04-11-2017 09:41AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This thread is about Poppy day week month, focus for goodness sake.

Its more than a month in the UK.

Well it is on the BBC and Sky anyway.

A Little Pony · 04-11-2017 02:00PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Has the RBL ever come out and condemned the use of the poppy on memorials to unionist murder gangs in the north?

Probably not, but they should do.

And so should Sinn Féin come out and condemn the decoration of P/IRA-members graves' with the Easter Lily, perhaps. The lily is placed there by the 'National Graves Association', which maintains the graves of the likes of Seán Russell, who died aboard a Nazi U-Boat.

Just what I was going to say. Sinn Fein remember all the terrorists like the shankill bomber with a plaque put up in his name. Great warrior that he was blowing people up.

markodaly · 04-11-2017 03:45PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Has the RBL ever come out and condemned the use of the poppy on memorials to unionist murder gangs in the north?

Those in glass houses should not throw stones.

We all know that the Tri Colour is displayed on coffins of IRA men who maimed and murdered their way through the North and Britain.

Martin McGuinness a person whom I would respect far more than say that pathological liar the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, Gerry Adams, has on his headstone 'Óglaigh na hÉireann'.

Now he was never a member of Óglaigh na hÉireann, ie a member of the defence forces of the Republic of Ireland. He was a member of the provisional IRA however. Are Sinn Fein going to apologise to the defence forces for that misuse of the term?

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 03:50PM

Is there a desperate and pathetic attempt to shift the focus here or is it just me?

The thread has nothing to do with what SF do or don't do.

It is about the wearing of the poppy and what the RBL and hence the wearer of their poppies stand for and over.

markodaly · 04-11-2017 03:53PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Just what I was going to say. Sinn Fein remember all the terrorists like the shankill bomber with a plaque put up in his name. Great warrior that he was blowing people up.

Yes, interesting man. A brave IRA soldier who as it turned out as a Double Agent and was secretly working for the British.

Here is his plague.

See the use of the word Oglach. The parents of said murderer didnt want any plaque in his name.

Odhinn · 04-11-2017 03:53PM

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, interesting man. A brave IRA soldier who as it turned out as a Double Agent and was secretly working for the British.

Here is his plague.

See the use of the word Oglach. The parents of said murderer didnt want any plaque in his name.

Whats that to do with the poppy?

markodaly · 04-11-2017 03:56PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is there a desperate and pathetic attempt to shift the focus here or is it just me?

The thread has nothing to do with what SF do or don't do.

It is about the wearing of the poppy and what the RBL and hence the wearer of their poppies stand for and over.

Its about hypocrisy also. If you want the RBL to be vocal against its use in say UVF memorials then why cant one state the case about misuse of other terms and artefacts like flags on the coffin of Provo murderers?

indioblack · 04-11-2017 03:57PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is there a desperate and pathetic attempt to shift the focus here or is it just me?

The thread has nothing to do with what SF do or don't do.

It is about the wearing of the poppy and what the RBL and hence the wearer of their poppies stand for and over.

Actually it's about unresolved issues in recent Anglo-Irish history. The poppy is simply a device, a tool, to highlight these issues. That's why this is an annual thread.

Odhinn · 04-11-2017 03:57PM

markodaly wrote: »

Its about hypocrisy also. If you want the RBL to be vocal against its use in say UVF memorials then why cant one state the case about misuse of other terms and artefacts like flags on the coffin of Provo murderers?

...because it's off-topic straw manning?

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 03:59PM

markodaly wrote: »

Its about hypocrisy also. If you want the RBL to be vocal against its use in say UVF memorials then why cant one state the case about misuse of other terms and artefacts like flags on the coffin of Provo murderers?

We know where SF stand on this, is the reason. From what I can see they are upfront and don't speak with forked tongues.
There is a very clear dichotomy between some of the things the RBL say.

It's about remembrance but it is also worn in support of the Armed Forces past and present.

evolving_doors · 04-11-2017 04:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is there a desperate and pathetic attempt to shift the focus here or is it just me?

The thread has nothing to do with what SF do or don't do.

It is about the wearing of the poppy and what the RBL and hence the wearer of their poppies stand for and over.

Well it's about symbolism and cultural appropriation (including misappropriation malappropriation).

Saying sinn fein et. Al. has nothing to do with this interaction with symbols is a bit weird.

Comparisons are fair game.

Similarly Godwin doesn't apply as Nazis had appropriated symbols left right and centre.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 04:02PM

indioblack wrote: »

Actually it's about unresolved issues in recent Anglo-Irish history. The poppy is simply a device, a tool, to highlight these issues. That's why this is an annual thread.

Actually it isn't particularly, any of the many countries the British were in would have the same issues.

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 04:11PM

evolving_doors wrote: »

Well it's about symbolism and cultural appropriation (including misappropriation malappropriation).

Saying sinn fein et. Al. has nothing to do with this interaction with symbols is a bit weird.

Comparisons are fair game.

Similarly Godwin doesn't apply as Nazis had appropriated symbols left right and centre.

Bleating about SF doing something does not answer the questions about wearing the poppy and what it represents.

markodaly · 04-11-2017 04:17PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bleating about SF doing something does not answer the questions about wearing the poppy and what it represents.

So, you are admitting that Sinn Fein also carry on in the manner of the RBL?

Are you still scared of the Poppy Francie, has it been forced on you yet?

FrancieBrady · 04-11-2017 04:22PM

markodaly wrote: »

So, you are admitting that Sinn Fein also carry on in the manner of the RBL?

Are you still scared of the Poppy Francie, has it been forced on you yet?

I see you are still scared to admit you are routinely misquoting me.

I'll say it again just so you cannot claim you didn't know.

I am not scared of the poppy, and I was very specific of about where it might be 'forced'.

I suggest you calm down a bit and read properly.

tomwaterford · 04-11-2017 04:54PM

markodaly wrote: »

Its about hypocrisy also. If you want the RBL to be vocal against its use in say UVF memorials then why cant one state the case about misuse of other terms and artefacts like flags on the coffin of Provo murderers?

Noone has any issues with the poppy being used by the uff etc (I dont)...

Just the poppy is dressed up in a lie as for remberence for ww1 dead etc,

when in reality it's used to fund welfare type payments to soldiers who've been injured in the north/Iraq etc....

.I dispise those who try to pass it off as remberence while refusing to acknowledge this fact

The easter lily has never claimed to be anything other than a remberence for irelands patriot dead/those who gave their lives for ireland (whether you agree with their methods or not is 100% upto you)....money geos to the NGA for monument upkeep

markodaly · 04-11-2017 04:54PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I see you are still scared to admit you are routinely misquoting me.

I'll say it again just so you cannot claim you didn't know.

I am not scared of the poppy, and I was very specific of about where it might be 'forced'.

I suggest you calm down a bit and read properly.

It being forced on you by the mere fact by seeing it on the street and that you find it offensive and if the wearer of the poppy didn't take it off, then its forced on you.

Am I leaving anything out?

Are we over the annual poppy thread?

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