Are we over the annual poppy thread?

wexandproud · 31-10-2017 06:27PM

riffmongous wrote: »

If it's just about remembrance why isn't the white poppy more popular?

it's red because the red poppy grows abundantly in the north of france and thats where the tradition has come from .
Personally i would like to wear one to remember relations of my mothers who fought in ww1 however i couldn't be bothered bringing all the grief from the small minded shinner brigade and the usual small minded a..hole types down here .
the reason they joined up was nothing to do with the love of all things british , it was to feed their families in times of desperate poverty.

31-10-2017 06:31PM

wexandproud wrote: »

it's red because the red poppy grows abundantly in the north of france and thats where the tradition has come from .
Personally i would like to wear one to remember relations of my mothers who fought in ww1 however i couldn't be bothered bringing all the grief from the small minded shinner brigade and the usual small minded a..hole types down here .
the reason they joined up was nothing to do with the love of all things british , it was to feed their families in times of desperate poverty.

There is more to it than that

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_poppy

Jawgap · 31-10-2017 06:34PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Size would be a factor imo. These things are getting bigger, curious in and off itself.

And location. The poster who said they would wear it and not care, being the type I would object to.
The fact that many on this island have themselves lost loved ones to the actions of the British army should provoke some sensitivity in the wearer.

Isn't is supposed to be about respect? I don't see much respect from a lot of posters here, tbh.
It is noteworthy that there is no progress in northern Ireland because of the issue of respect for rights and cultural identity.

By all means wear the poppy, but recognise that there are sensitivities around it when in Ireland.

I wonder if any of the keyboard warriors who find poppies offensive would express their offence to this guy

31-10-2017 06:35PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

the white poppy is not a symbol of remembrance, but a symbol of moral equivalence which is adored by those who seem to grieve for dead anti-Nazis and Nazis alike.

It is nothing more than a tasteless parody of the poppy.

Can you expand on that? I've never heard it referred to like this before.

Does the rbl red poppy also not remember and support financially murderers and non-murderers alike?

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2017 06:38PM

wexandproud wrote: »

it's red because the red poppy grows abundantly in the north of france and thats where the tradition has come from .
Personally i would like to wear one to remember relations of my mothers who fought in ww1 however i couldn't be bothered bringing all the grief from the small minded shinner brigade and the usual small minded a..hole types down here .
the reason they joined up was nothing to do with the love of all things british , it was to feed their families in times of desperate poverty.

Why is your mind 'bigger'?
I am sure the 'shinners' are remembering what this army did here on this island, some of it in living memory.
Why does your remembrance take precedent over somebody else's?

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2017 06:57PM

Jawgap wrote: »

I wonder if any of the keyboard warriors who find poppies offensive would express their offence to this guy

Good man. Misrepresent what is being said now.

Did your attention not span yet to where I said that I have no prob with the poppy if worn in a respectful way? (do they come much smaller than your man's, in the picture you posted?)
I mean I have said it several times on the thread and once before directly in reply to you.

31-10-2017 07:09PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Does the rbl red poppy also not remember and support financially murderers and non-murderers alike?

Only if you don't believe in dictionaries, and want to reinvent the meaning of the word 'murder'.

I'm going to stick with the dictionary meaning of words, and the red poppy.

If others want to publicly express their mourning for dead Nazis, for example, that's their prerogative. I don't often the quote the saints, but on this occasion I might paraphrase Saint Augustine -- violence ought to be a last resort, but God gave man the sword for a good reason.

It seems to me absolutely ludicrous to suggest that all of those killed in war deserve to be remembered or mourned.

Jawgap · 31-10-2017 07:17PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Good man. Misrepresent what is being said now.

Did your attention not span yet to where I said that I have no prob with the poppy if worn in a respectful way? (do they come much smaller than your man's, in the picture you posted?)
I mean I have said it several times on the thread and once before directly in reply to you.

Size isn't everything.....I'd say attitude is more important......and I reckon McGregor could wear the largest poppy imaginable and no keyboard warrior here who finds it offensive would call him out on it to his face

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2017 07:21PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Size isn't everything.....I'd say attitude is more important......and I reckon McGregor could wear the largest poppy imaginable and no keyboard warrior here who finds it offensive would call him out on it to his face

And that would mean what?

Jawgap · 31-10-2017 07:24PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And that would mean what?

That there are limits to the "moral outrage" keyboard warriors are willing to express in real life should they be unfortunate enough to encounter an enamel flower.

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2017 07:26PM

Jawgap wrote: »

That there are limits to the "moral outrage" keyboard warriors are willing to express in real life should they be unfortunate enough to encounter an enamel flower.

Why would expressing how you feel to McGregor be any different to anybody else?

Jawgap · 31-10-2017 07:34PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would expressing how you feel to McGregor be any different to anybody else?

Off you go then......@TheNotoriousMMA

don't forget to let us know what hashtag you use.

indioblack · 31-10-2017 07:37PM

Years ago I debated the poppy issue with a poster now long gone from Boards.
His objection concerned British imperialism and the British military in Ireland, [he specified Bloody Sunday].
My reply was to have no remembrance at all - nothing else I believed, could satisfy him or be practically achieved.
His response was to suggest remembrance for the participants in the two world wars only.
I replied that this could not be. The participants in both wars would have been, indirectly and willingly or otherwise, maintaining British imperialism - therefore the only practical solution was to end the commemorations.
I added that this should apply to any state or section of a country that made reference to it's past, however respectfully, if that past included events that are objectionable on moral grounds.

31-10-2017 07:46PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Only if you don't believe in dictionaries, and want to reinvent the meaning of the word 'murder'.

I'm going to stick with the dictionary meaning of words, and the red poppy.

If others want to publicly express their mourning for dead Nazis, for example, that's their prerogative. I don't often the quote the saints, but on this occasion I might paraphrase Saint Augustine -- violence ought to be a last resort, but God gave man the sword for a good reason.

It seems to me absolutely ludicrous to suggest that all of those killed in war deserve to be remembered or mourned.

Unless they are British is what you are saying.

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2017 07:50PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Off you go then......@TheNotoriousMMA

don't forget to let us know what hashtag you use.

For starters, I don't object to him wearing the poppy, unless he is doing it to be confrontational or provocative. As I have said on numerous occasions to you. But you seem to be stubbornly ignoring that point.

Secondly, you seem to be suggesting that he would react violently which kinda reveals that you might wish to do the same. Why bring up McGregor, a kickboxer I believe, (is that the name for his sport?) otherwise?

I wonder how he would react to you inferring that he is a bully and a thug to boot? That he would react violently and unprofessionally (a boxer's hands used to be treated as lethal weapons in law I think) is a serious allegation to make.

You have his contact details, tell us how you get on with that.

Timberrrrrrrr · 31-10-2017 07:52PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

For starters, I don't object to him wearing the poppy, unless he is doing it to be confrontational or provocative. As I have said on numerous occasions to you. But you seem to be stubbornly ignoring that point.

Secondly, you seem to be suggesting that he would react violently which kinda reveals that you might wish to do the same. Why bring up McGregor, a kickboxer I believe, (is that the name for his sport?) otherwise?

I wonder how he would react to you inferring that he is a bully and a thug to boot? That he would react violently and unprofessionally (a boxer's hands used to be treated as lethal weapons in law I think) is a serious allegation to make.

You have his contact details, tell us how you get on with that.

Please elaborate, how does one wear a poppy in a confrontational or provocative manner?

31-10-2017 07:53PM

indioblack wrote: »

Years ago I debated the poppy issue with a poster now long gone from Boards.
His objection concerned British imperialism and the British military in Ireland, [he specified Bloody Sunday].
My reply was to have no remembrance at all - nothing else I believed, could satisfy him or be practically achieved.
His response was to suggest remembrance for the participants in the two world wars only.
I replied that this could not be. The participants in both wars would have been, indirectly and willingly or otherwise, maintaining British imperialism - therefore the only practical solution was to end the commemorations.
I added that this should apply to any state or section of a country that made reference to it's past, however respectfully, if that past included events that are objectionable on moral grounds.

To be blunt about it, its the reason i’ll never buy a poppy. Can you imagine trying to have a whip round for down and out Paras in the Bogside? It would be like trying to collect money for old Leibstandarte soldiers in Tel Aviv or something.

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2017 07:56PM

indioblack wrote: »

Years ago I debated the poppy issue with a poster now long gone from Boards.
His objection concerned British imperialism and the British military in Ireland, [he specified Bloody Sunday].
My reply was to have no remembrance at all - nothing else I believed, could satisfy him or be practically achieved.
His response was to suggest remembrance for the participants in the two world wars only.
I replied that this could not be. The participants in both wars would have been, indirectly and willingly or otherwise, maintaining British imperialism - therefore the only practical solution was to end the commemorations.
I added that this should apply to any state or section of a country that made reference to it's past, however respectfully, if that past included events that are objectionable on moral grounds.

Interesting angle.

Personally I don't think there is a need to do away with remembrance. But the poppy thing shows there is a thin line between remembrance and glorification and provocation.
We as a state took great care, not to provoke or glorify, in our remembrance of 1916.
Other states should copy.

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2017 07:58PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Please elaborate, how does one wear a poppy in a confrontational or provocative manner?

We have covered that ground already.

Jawgap · 31-10-2017 08:03PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

For starters, I don't object to him wearing the poppy, unless he is doing it to be confrontational or provocative. As I have said on numerous occasions to you. But you seem to be stubbornly ignoring that point.

Secondly, you seem to be suggesting that he would react violently which kinda reveals that you might wish to do the same. Why bring up McGregor, a kickboxer I believe, (is that the name for his sport?) otherwise?

I wonder how he would react to you inferring that he is a bully and a thug to boot? That he would react violently and unprofessionally (a boxer's hands used to be treated as lethal weapons in law I think) is a serious allegation to make.

You have his contact details, tell us how you get on with that.

yes, two words not normally associated with Conor McGregor

I very much doubt he'd react violently.....he is supremely well disciplined, not to mention PR savvy.....which is not to say he wouldn't give short shrift to anyone suggesting him wearing a poppy someone is offensive or makes him less Irish.

Btw, I've met him. A nephew of mine was facilitated through the Make-a-Wish Foundation and I went as one of his helpers. I don't have much time for MMA but as a person I'd rate him very highly. Behind the "box office" is a thorough gentleman.

ohnonotgmail · 31-10-2017 08:03PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have covered that ground already.

you really haven't.

Timberrrrrrrr · 31-10-2017 08:05PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have covered that ground already.

No, you made some vague assertations to "location" (personal or geographical?)so I'll ask again, hie dies one wear a poppy in a confrontational or Provocative manner?

These are your words so all I'm asking is that you elaborate and explain exactly what you mean by them.

Jawgap · 31-10-2017 08:06PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Please elaborate, how does one wear a poppy in a confrontational or provocative manner?

I think if someone takes offence you've been provocative and/or confrontational

Timberrrrrrrr · 31-10-2017 08:11PM

Jawgap wrote: »

I think if someone takes offence you've been provocative and/or confrontational

Inrhink everything ibwear would do that to someone at one time or another, maybe I should just walk around naked, that's sure not to offend anyone :pac:

Jawgap · 31-10-2017 08:12PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Inrhink everything ibwear would do that to someone at one time or another, maybe I should just walk around naked, that's sure not to offend anyone :pac:

No......apparently size matters too......see the photo of Foster versus the one of McGregor.

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2017 08:14PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No, you made some vague assertations to "location" (personal or geographical?)so I'll ask again, hie dies one wear a poppy in a confrontational or Provocative manner?

These are your words so all I'm asking is that you elaborate and explain exactly what you mean by them.

Let's take an extreme, if McGregor was sitting at a SF Ard Fheis in that picture. I would say that was provocative and confrontational.
If somebody was to walk up my street in a border town or certain areas of Belfast or Derry, with the poppy Arlene is wearing, that would be confrontational and provocative.
If somebody came in to relatives of mine homes, were they remember children killed by British forces, wearing a poppy of any size, that would be confrontational and provocative, if they knew the circumstance. They most certainly would be told in that house.

There are all sorts of places on this island, in short. So, imo, it is respectful to remember those sensitivities.
By the way, there are plenty of Unionists who frequent this town to worship, and they don't do it. And knowing some of them and having discussed this with some of them, I know why they don't do it, it is out of respect.

indioblack · 31-10-2017 08:18PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Interesting angle.

Personally I don't think there is a need to do away with remembrance. But the poppy thing shows there is a thin line between remembrance and glorification and provocation.
We as a state took great care, not to provoke or glorify, in our remembrance of 1916.
Other states should copy.

When I replied to the poster I wasn't seriously suggesting an end to commemorations, we both knew that wouldn't happen.
I was trying to make the point that it would be practically impossible to disentangle history to make such ceremonies acceptable to him.
Britain is prominent in these commemorations - but, if the desire to be offended is there, not alone.
It wouldn't need weeks of commemoration ceremonies and poppy selling - the flag or symbol of a nation or even part of a nation might be sufficient if the history is there - and if some of that history offends.

ohnonotgmail · 31-10-2017 08:25PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Let's take an extreme, if McGregor was sitting at a SF Ard Fheis in that picture. I would say that was provocative and confrontational.
If somebody was to walk up my street in a border town or certain areas of Belfast or Derry, with the poppy Arlene is wearing, that would be confrontational and provocative.
If somebody came in to relatives of mine homes, were they remember children killed by British forces, wearing a poppy of any size, that would be confrontational and provocative, if they knew the circumstance. They most certainly would be told in that house.

There are all sorts of places on this island, in short. So, imo, it is respectful to remember those sensitivities.
By the way, there are plenty of Unionists who frequent this town to worship, and they don't do it. And knowing some of them and having discussed this with some of them, I know why they don't do it, it is out of respect.

and if someone was to do that would it think it acceptable to confront that person aggressively?

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2017 08:46PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and if someone was to do that would it think it acceptable to confront that person aggressively?

No.

Most decent people react to sensitivities and don't provoke. Others 'don't care'.

Jawgap · 31-10-2017 08:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No.

Most decent people react to sensitivities and don't provoke. Others 'don't care'.

So which streets, which border towns?

If I've to drive to Belfast next week where do I take it off and where do I put it back on? How would one know they are in a sensitive area or in the presence of someone of a sensitive disposition?

Are we over the annual poppy thread?

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