Petition to impeach pro life UCD SU President...

WinnyThePoo · 13-10-2017 09:51AM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I do know why they are trying to impeach her. They don't like her politics. She may have gone in with the best of intentions but, as many politicians find, it's not as easy to do something when you are actually in power. She acted in the legal interest of the SU as she is required to do.

As to her lying, I've been looking for what she is supposed to have promised. I found a quote from another member of the executive saying she promised to stay clear of issues relating to the 8th. This issue is relating to the 14th amendment. Perhaps you could clarify that with a source for her promise.

I'm sure she would love to change the SU's stance on abortion. I don't see complying with the law as a way to do this, especially as the magazine still contained advice on where to get the removed information.

Not really sure what point you are making there. But the only people I think should go **** themselves are those that try and bully and intimidate persons of an opposing political view.

You know why she is being impeached. So you should have no problem then. What with it done democratically.

Of course people don't like her politics. Her politics of lying.

It's that simple.

never_mind · 13-10-2017 09:53AM

Outside of this whole thing I have to feel sorry for her. She is only young and is getting a lot of negative attention of her bad decision making... I hope that everyone in UCD is treating her with a bit of respect and diplomacy and not being a bully. She should be impeached based on her actions but I just hope, for her own sake and mental health, that she is treated well.

pilly · 13-10-2017 09:56AM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

In most cases, laws being the exception.

I think you've missed the point twice there Captain. It is Iona who are forcing their beliefs on to others.

VinLieger · 13-10-2017 10:00AM

pilly wrote: »

I think you've missed the point twice there Captain. It is Iona who are forcing their beliefs on to others.

he thinks hes covering himself by saying laws are an exception but regardless of that they are still forcing their beliefs on others by campaigning against any repeal

pilly · 13-10-2017 10:03AM

The way I see it in terms of bullying is that there actually can't be an accusation of bullying against the pro-choice side. What exactly are they bullying people into to? Do people actually think that they'll be dragged off and forced to have an abortion if the 8th is repealed?

brendanwalsh · 13-10-2017 10:04AM

Really hope she survives. Stick it to the neo militant liberalists. Fact is most of them like the concept of being liberal but not the reality. Friend of mine was banging the drum for homosexual marriage. Two years later and the brother announces he enjoys smoking the flesh pipe and she couldn't be more disgusted.

VinLieger · 13-10-2017 10:06AM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Stick it to the neo militant liberalists.

LOL someone wanted to sound smart and failed spectacularly

brendanwalsh · 13-10-2017 10:08AM

pilly wrote: »

The way I see it in terms of bullying is that there actually can't be an accusation of bullying against the pro-choice side. What exactly are they bullying people into to? Do people actually think that they'll be dragged off and forced to have an abortion if the 8th is repealed?

I was approached by two young pro choice campaigners a few weeks ago in o connell Street. I kindly said I was pro life and they started heckling me. One pushed me, the other shoved a pamphlet in my face. Called me a "Jesus f*cker". Was tempted to ring the guards but I just walked on.

Captain Obvious · 13-10-2017 10:11AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Why are laws an acceptable exception to this? There are plenty of instances throughout history of unjust laws, so i don't see why you automatically assume laws have to be unquestionably inviolable. As an example if certain laws are objectively proven to be discriminatory then are they not unjust and deserve to be disobeyed?

Laws are the exception because that is how we function as a society. Laws are the enactment of our constitution which is a reflection of our values. If a law or the constitution needs to be updated or changed then it can be done so. The law in question can be changed by the government should they wish to do so so why not put pressure on them instead of targeting a young college student for obeying it?

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You know why she is being impeached. So you should have no problem then. What with it done democratically.

Of course people don't like her politics. Her politics of lying.

It's that simple.

Yet nobody can show evidence of her lying. Yes I know why she is being impeached and it is being done so within the constitution of the SU. Not sure why you think that means I shouldn't have an issue with it. It's the motivation, not the procedure I have an issue with.

pilly wrote: »

I think you've missed the point twice there Captain. It is Iona who are forcing their beliefs on to others.

VinLieger wrote: »

he thinks hes covering himself by saying laws are an exception but regardless of that they are still forcing their beliefs on others by campaigning against any repeal

Do you think I support Iona? Is that the best you can do? I have no time for them either.

dav3 · 13-10-2017 10:18AM

I do feel sorry for her, I think she has been poorly advised. Not by anyone in the legal profession, but from people close to her that have led her down this dark path.
When more people sign a petition to impeach you than voted to elect you president, you have to hold your hands up and realise that you've misjudged the entire situation.
She's still young, if she admits her mistake and apologises, she may still be able to save herself and her future career.
I highly doubt she wants to spend the rest of her life answering phones at the iona institute.

padd b1975 · 13-10-2017 10:24AM

never_mind wrote: »

Outside of this whole thing I have to feel sorry for her. She is only young and is getting a lot of negative attention of her bad decision making... I hope that everyone in UCD is treating her with a bit of respect and diplomacy and not being a bully. She should be impeached based on her actions but I just hope, for her own sake and mental health, that she is treated well.

Not a chance of that in the Lord Of The Flies world of student politics.

Jayop · 13-10-2017 10:31AM

dav3 wrote: »

I do feel sorry for her, I think she has been poorly advised. Not by anyone in the legal profession, but from people close to her that have led her down this dark path.
When more people sign a petition to impeach you than voted to elect you president, you have to hold your hands up and realise that you've misjudged the entire situation.
She's still young, if she admits her mistake and apologises, she may still be able to save herself and her future career.
I highly doubt she wants to spend the rest of her life answering phones at the iona institute.

Fg or Renua will have a cushy job for her. Maybe a senator where she wouldn't have to worry about being elected.

VinLieger · 13-10-2017 10:33AM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I was approached by two young pro choice campaigners a few weeks ago in o connell Street. I kindly said I was pro life and they started heckling me. One pushed me, the other shoved a pamphlet in my face. Called me a "Jesus f*cker". Was tempted to ring the guards but I just walked on.

Sure that happened......

Grayson · 13-10-2017 10:33AM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I was approached by two young pro choice campaigners a few weeks ago in o connell Street. I kindly said I was pro life and they started heckling me. One pushed me, the other shoved a pamphlet in my face. Called me a "Jesus f*cker". Was tempted to ring the guards but I just walked on.

I'm calling bullsh1t on that.

VinLieger · 13-10-2017 10:34AM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Laws are the exception because that is how we function as a society. Laws are the enactment of our constitution which is a reflection of our values. If a law or the constitution needs to be updated or changed then it can be done so. The law in question can be changed by the government should they wish to do so so why not put pressure on them instead of targeting a young college student for obeying it?

So all laws in your opinion are unquestionably just? Regardless of the moral implications such an blanket assumption could lead to?

tritium · 13-10-2017 10:39AM

pilly wrote: »

I think you've missed the point twice there Captain. It is Iona who are forcing their beliefs on to others.

Id be very slow to say its only one side thats pushing their views into others here. Unfortunately this topic brings out a very nasty element on both sides.

Grayson · 13-10-2017 10:40AM

dav3 wrote: »

I do feel sorry for her, I think she has been poorly advised. Not by anyone in the legal profession, but from people close to her that have led her down this dark path.
When more people sign a petition to impeach you than voted to elect you president, you have to hold your hands up and realise that you've misjudged the entire situation.
She's still young, if she admits her mistake and apologises, she may still be able to save herself and her future career.
I highly doubt she wants to spend the rest of her life answering phones at the iona institute.

Someone mentioned in this thread that she was homeschooled. The reason most religious people get homeschooled is because their parents don't want them to get a secular education.

This is Ireland. There's religious schools everywhere and they weren't religious enough for her parents.

Growing up in that house must have been like growing up in a cult. The constant indoctrination, the constant religious education. The girl never stood a chance. She was brought up to be a foot soldier in culture war that Iona sees itself waging.

Charles Babbage · 13-10-2017 10:43AM

Grayson wrote: »

Growing up in that house must have been like growing up in a cult. The constant indoctrination, the constant religious education. The girl never stood a chance. She was brought up to be a foot soldier in culture war that Iona sees itself waging.

I'm sure she is an intelligent person and quite capable of thinking for herself, at least to same extent as the usual "trendy" student herd.

steddyeddy · 13-10-2017 10:50AM

Jayop wrote: »

So an organization can't or shouldn't attempt to change for the better?

She lied didn't she? Did she do anything illegal?

Captain Obvious · 13-10-2017 10:51AM

VinLieger wrote: »

So all laws in your opinion are unquestionably just? Regardless of the moral implications such an blanket assumption could lead to?

That's not what I said at all. This is getting pathetic. Are these your only tactics? An unjust law can be challenged to the Supreme Court and an outdated provision in the Constitution that allows an unjust law can be brought to a referendum.

never_mind · 13-10-2017 11:02AM

padd b1975 wrote: »

Not a chance of that in the Lord Of The Flies world of student politics.

Student politics, as a former exec officer, is toxic. It's full of prix.

tritium · 13-10-2017 11:05AM

dav3 wrote: »

I do feel sorry for her, I think she has been poorly advised. Not by anyone in the legal profession, but from people close to her that have led her down this dark path.
When more people sign a petition to impeach you than voted to elect you president, you have to hold your hands up and realise that you've misjudged the entire situation.
She's still young, if she admits her mistake and apologises, she may still be able to save herself and her future career.
I highly doubt she wants to spend the rest of her life answering phones at the iona institute.

Meh I always think of petitions like this as a bit of a nonsense tbh. Usually it's impossible to separate those who actually care about it and those who just jumped on the bandwagon because they were approached at a good time. You certainly can't say that anyone signing the petition did so knowing the full arguement from bith sides First run of it they even forgot to get the actual signatures and had to try again.

More interesting is how small a percentage of the student population appear to actually care about student politics, which is a sad reflection on the ucdsu

Grayson · 13-10-2017 11:10AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I'm sure she is an intelligent person and quite capable of thinking for herself, at least to same extent as the usual "trendy" student herd.

She's got the exact same politics and opinions as her parents and the whole Iona institute. You're saying that she just happened to come up with these by herself and it has nothing to do with being indoctrinated since a young age.

tritium · 13-10-2017 11:11AM

dav3 wrote: »

I do feel sorry for her, I think she has been poorly advised. Not by anyone in the legal profession, but from people close to her that have led her down this dark path.
When more people sign a petition to impeach you than voted to elect you president, you have to hold your hands up and realise that you've misjudged the entire situation.
She's still young, if she admits her mistake and apologises, she may still be able to save herself and her future career.
I highly doubt she wants to spend the rest of her life answering phones at the iona institute.

I don't think this will go too badly against her career tbh. Shes not the first SU rep to be accused of disregarding a mandate. Ivana Bacik was forced to resign for a similar (albeit more blatant) point many years ago and hasn't done too badly since. A certain irony to see those two connected like that...

VinLieger · 13-10-2017 11:27AM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

That's not what I said at all. This is getting pathetic. Are these your only tactics? An unjust law can be challenged to the Supreme Court and an outdated provision in the Constitution that allows an unjust law can be brought to a referendum.

No need to be so belligerent im simply asking questions, ill stop if your that offended by me questioning your views.

By the way your view of the world is incredibly black and white, I strongly disagree that unquestioning adherence to all laws is good for any democracy and history would tend to agree with me.

13-10-2017 11:37AM

Social media nearly had a fit when she got elected. I thought it was hilarious.

One look at her CV and family and I have no idea how she made it she is so far from the typical student politics. This is a good life lesson for the youth in UCD. Get out and vote whenever their is an election, MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD.

Anyways, from the minute she got elected she was going down (by hook or by crook) and its just unfortunate for her that she gave them the opportunity so early in the year.

Its probably good for her, Id never have heard of her otherwise. She'll be thrown out, get a fair bit of publicity and it will give her supporters a martyr to celebrate.

animaal · 13-10-2017 11:40AM

VinLieger wrote: »

I strongly disagree that unquestioning adherence to all laws is good for any democracy and history would tend to agree with me.

Who do you think should get to decide what laws I follow? Or should everybody only follow the laws they agree with?

VinLieger · 13-10-2017 11:43AM

animaal wrote: »

Who do you think should get to decide what laws I follow? Or should everybody only follow the laws they agree with?

Piss poor attempt at a strawman

animaal · 13-10-2017 11:49AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Piss poor attempt at a strawman

Do you know what a strawman is?

This thread concerns the actions of a person who claims the that motivations for her actions were that she was following legal advice to avoid breaking the law. You have said:

I strongly disagree that unquestioning adherence to all laws is good for any democracy and history would tend to agree with me.

I've asked how it should be decided which laws people follow. How is that a strawman?

martingriff · 13-10-2017 11:51AM

pilly wrote: »

Captain Obvious wrote: »

In most cases, laws being the exception.

I think you've missed the point twice there Captain. It is Iona who are forcing their beliefs on to others.

I disagree with the Iona but can you show how they are forcing there beliefs on to others

Petition to impeach pro life UCD SU President...

Comments