New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

j8wk2feszrnpao · 01-10-2017 08:47PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Kind of wish we had kept Logan Ryan instead of getting Gilmore.

While Gilmore has been disappointing, and the two pens (esp the second) where just idiotic, Ryan gave up play after play here (more noted for his tackling after giving up a play); the defence would look no different with him here.

I'd no faith in the D after the first three games, so this display isn't that much of a surprise; they were bailed out big time last week.
It was the 32nd ranked D after three weeks, and looked even worse this week.
Attitude, ability, concentration, coaching; whatever it is, it's all wrong right now.

Son Of A Vidic · 01-10-2017 08:54PM

Crazy when you think we gave Gilmore the kinda money we wouldn't give to Talib. And Talib remains one of the best in the league after we resurrected his career. Then we brought in Revis knowing well that he'd be too rich to keep after year 1. Which makes me think, why didn't they just bloody pay Talib.

TOss Sweep · 01-10-2017 09:00PM

Don't know about you guys but I just don't get it. Usually we gripe and moan about a section of our defense and usually the defense steps up when it matters and makes us all at times eat our words but this defense we have now offers nothing. Are we all missing something? It is just so unlike Bill to have the worst defense in the NFL. I think for me thats what makes this even more bizarre. HE looked defeated at times on the sideline when the camera panned to him. So weird that we would put any faith in these guys defensively.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 01-10-2017 09:18PM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

Crazy when you think we gave Gilmore the kinda money we wouldn't give to Talib. And Talib remains one of the best in the league after we resurrected his career. Then we brought in Revis knowing well that he'd be too rich to keep after year 1. Which makes me think, why didn't they just bloody pay Talib.

For us, he went down in keys times; guess they figured they couldn't trust his health at the time. Proven to be wrong.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 01-10-2017 09:58PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Are we all missing something?

Watching the first 4 games reminds me of Bills quote in 2009, "I just can't get this team to play the way we need to play". I don't think we have the talent, or the ability, to be a good D.

We'd a good schedule last year against a number of below par QB's.
This year we've come up against some of the better QBs, and even a rookie, and gotten torched.

At some point, when stats wise your the worst, and the eye test backs that up; you've got to say it's just down right awful.

The only consolation is we're not alone in terms of having struggles. Not sure who has consistently looked like an elite team.

Son Of A Vidic · 01-10-2017 10:01PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

The only consolation is we're not alone in terms of having struggles. Not sure who has consistently looked like an elite team.

The frustrating thing is, if we had a half decent D, a 6th Super Bowl win would have been a strong possibility.

Son Of A Vidic · 01-10-2017 10:05PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

It is just so unlike Bill to have the worst defense in the NFL.

And let's not forget this is a guy, a defensive genius, who had his defensive game plan for the Giants enshrined in Canton when he was their DC. I just can't understand how he can allow that shyte we saw today. I'm looking at DB's that not only can't play zone, but it's like they don't even understand how to play it.

TOss Sweep · 01-10-2017 10:06PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Are we all missing something?

Watching the first 4 games reminds me of Bills quote in 2009, "I just can't get this team to play the way we need to play". I don't think we have the talent, or the ability, to be a good D.

We'd a good schedule last year against a number of below par QB's.
This year we've come up against some of the better QBs, and even a rookie, and gotten torched.

At some point, when stats wise your the worst, and the eye test backs that up; you've got to say it's just down right awful.

The only consolation is we're not alone in terms of having struggles. Not sure who has consistently looked like an elite team.

This defense is worse than that 2009 defense. At least our front 7 was somewhat decent back then but our secondary was average at best then.

This defense today has too many holes and not enough experience and no clear leader. Its a shambles

I also get what Bill was saying back then but he puts those players on the field. GOAT or no goat as a coach that excuse to me is a poor one from any coach. You pick the team and bring in the players. If you have weaknesses you got to fix them or bring in the players to fill those holes.

Touching back on the leader thing i think we are missing that strong voice dfensively also. No one commanding the defense what so ever. Communication is poor and the blown coverages showed that today. The defense is a mess and Bill and Matt have a lot of work to do.

Christy42 · 01-10-2017 10:12PM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

And let's not forget this is a guy, a defensive genius, who had his defensive game plan for the Giants enshrined in Canton when he was their DC. I just can't understand how he can allow that shyte we saw today. I'm looking at DB's that not only can't play zone, but it's like they don't even understand how to play it.

I reckon it is too much to keep going for so long without some errors. Eventually a few mistakes or calls that didn't work out build up with some bad luck and one side of the ball ends up without the required players. Pretty sure you ended up with no receivers on offense one year as well, it got fixed.

I can't see any team being more consistent than the pats have been. Errors are going to creep in and personal errors are going to take longer to fix. Bill has been better than most at avoiding them but not immune to them.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 01-10-2017 10:16PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

The defense is a mess and Bill and Matt have a lot of work to do.

I didn't mind trading CJones, as I didn't think he merited the cost of keeping him. I was disappointed to see the talent of Collins leave, but figured there was other issues that meant he had to go.
But both guys could make plays to get the opposition off the field; and that talent doesn't appear to be out there for the Pats. I don't see how it can get better without trading.

eagle eye · 02-10-2017 10:24AM

This was Hightower's first game back and hopefully he can be the leader on the D. Certainly need some help on the edge though and I don't know what the hell is going on in the secondary but it needs to be solved quickly. I'm wondering if Malcolm Butler has become a problem now in the locker room.

There is a lot of work on to get this sorted.

BizzyC · 02-10-2017 11:19AM

Aside from leadership and coverage breakdowns, I think the Pats D must have one of the highest rates of missed tackles over the past few seasons.
It seems like at least 2-3 times a game you see players breaking out big gains on plays where defenders had ample opportunity to make a tackle/sack. They always seem to occur on key downs too.....

Son Of A Vidic · 02-10-2017 01:57PM

Christy42 wrote: »

I reckon it is too much to keep going for so long without some errors. Eventually a few mistakes or calls that didn't work out build up with some bad luck and one side of the ball ends up without the required players. Pretty sure you ended up with no receivers on offense one year as well, it got fixed.

Going into the 2013 season Brady had 6 or 7 receivers gone, which equaled 94% of all passes caught in 2012. But he did what he has always done, made do with what he had, got to the AFC title game. He went into that game with a gimped WR corp and finished out the game with Slater as the only healthy WR. But it was the collapse of our interior O line in that title game and of course, nearly forgot, our non-existent secondary cost us the day.

So Brady will always carry the team and his brilliance on offense has sugar coated a lot of our defensive shortcomings. The Falcons obliterated the D in the Superbowl and Brady somehow leads a miracle win. Ya Hightower is a defensive stud who makes big plays in big games, but that's only one man. After the Superbowl, we spend the summer watching on NFL Network how Patricia is a qualified aeronautical engineer, is very clever and a whizz kid on defense who has Bills complete trust. Maybe they began to believe the hype. Sure they always have Brady anyway to paper over the cracks. I don't want to pick on Matt because the problem is with the entire defensive coaching staff.

I posted a few years ago that maybe Bill needs to relent and bring in a new defensive HC. A few years ago the Broncos were dire on defense, but they got to work on fixing it and they've been one of the best in the league since for last several years. I watched Brady post game saying "We all have to do better." No Tom you don't, you've done more than enough, you don't need to do a damn thing. You just need a defense that you can count on to do their job.

I think major adjustments need to be done to the defense and the coaching staff. The bend don't break excuse doesn't even exist now, it's so bad, we can't even stop the run anymore. Said a few weeks ago that Butler could be traded, but he's now so rubbish, who'd have him?

TOss Sweep · 02-10-2017 04:00PM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

I posted a few years ago that maybe Bill needs to relent and bring in a new defensive HC. A few years ago the Broncos were dire on defense, but they got to work on fixing it and they've been one of the best in the league since for last several years. I watched Brady post game saying "We all have to do better." No Tom you don't, you've done more than enough, you don't need to do a damn thing. You just need a defense that you can count on to do their job.

There is no such thing as a Defensive HC. Matt Patricia has full control of the Defense these days and has been calling the defensive plays for the last few years. Bill has relied on both McDaniels and Patricia for many years now and I don't think play calling is the issue. It is personnel issues and no leadership on the field in my eyes that are the problem. We just don't have quality players defensively and with the loss of some guys in recent years that is starting to show. Gilmore and Butler should also be ashamed of themselves as they have to stand up and do better as experienced guys as should McCourty.

The whole coaching staff did a bad job filling holes and not bringing in enough quality and now we are left with inexperience and no leadership. We also dont have guys that really make plays anymore.

Butler, McCourty, Gilmore and Hightower were supposed to be the leaders and play makers but injury and lack of trying has hurt us. The only one who has really stepped up since we signed him is Van Noy dude has been playing out of his skin and better than any in the football world ever gave him credit for.

Overall unless those 4 guys get it together and bring in experience to fill gaps its going to be a long season

Son Of A Vidic · 02-10-2017 06:16PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

There is no such thing as a Defensive HC.

Eh? It was a simple typo and it really should have been very, very obvious that I was talking about a defensive coordinator.

Son Of A Vidic · 02-10-2017 06:25PM

Through 4 games, Brady has thrown for 1399 yards, 10 TDs, O Ints with a 68% CR. He's on pace for +5000 yards and 40 TDs.

On the flip side, through 4 games, he's been hit 26 times and sacked 13 times. So he's on pace for 104 QB hits and 52 sacks. Can't see him lasting the season at that rate of punishment tbh.:(

TOss Sweep · 02-10-2017 07:01PM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

Eh? It was a simple typo and it really should have been very, very obvious that I was talking about a defensive coordinator.

Well not really because you said you didn't want to pick on Matt and then said the problem was the whole defensive coaching staff. It would have been obvious had you said you believe Matt Patricia wasn't the man for you.

But I will disagree with you 100%. Matt Patricia is not the problem here. Our Defense has stepped up when needed in recent years and proven they could get the job done. Since Patricia has taken over as DC he has been in 2 Superbowls and his defense were key to both wins. Falcons bowl they started badly but really stepped up when needed and made huge plays to give Brady and Co time and distance to get the game won.

Patricia also has no say on the players the Patriots bring in as that is not the job of the DC that is the job of the GM and HC who in this case is Bill Belichick. I am sure they consult but ultimately player decisions come down to the HC/GM.

We do not have the players on our roster right now to be a solid defense or even a good defense. You can't blame a defensive coordinator for not having the players at his disposal especially when injuries hit as well taking key guys out.

TOss Sweep · 02-10-2017 07:02PM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

Through 4 games, Brady has thrown for 1399 yards, 10 TDs, O Ints with a 68% CR. He's on pace for +5000 yards and 40 TDs.

On the flip side, through 4 games, he's been hit 26 times and sacked 13 times. So he's on pace for 104 QB hits and 52 sacks. Can't see him lasting the season at that rate of punishment tbh.:(

Bill got a tad annoyed when asked about that today

On Monday's conference call, Bill Belichick didn't really want to get into the subject.

"Well we always try to, obviously, protect the quarterback and create holes in the running game and do all the things we need to do to be successful," Belichick said. "So that's what we'll continue to do. It's a contact sport, and guys are going to get hit on the football field. I mean, I think that's reality. We'll do the best we can to try to win games. That's what we're going to try to do. Not really sure what you're suggesting."

So, what can the Patriots do to minimize the hits?

Belichick responded, "You want to hand the ball off 70 times a game? Is that what you think we should do? Run 70 runs a game?"

Brady and the Patriots have a short week this week as they will travel to Tampa Bay for a Thursday night game.

bruschi · 03-10-2017 08:52AM

The most frustrating part of the defence though to me is the utterly stupid and simple errors. It is one thing if you just plain arent good enough, but its another when your attitude and concentration stink. That penalty from Gilmore is one of the dumbest things you could do in that situation. He had been called for it already previously. Bad enough to get called once, but to have it another time is just flat out dumb football. It literally cost the game as we got the sack on third down. It summed it up though. Getting beat by our defence doing stupid things.

Jamarcus made the point above of Butler not endearing himself anymore through his play. I was one who really was disappointed in the trade talks with him last year and him being pushed out. At the moment, I wouldnt be too bothered at all if he goes. His play stinks and his attitude doesnt seem the same as it was when he was the undrafted rookie busting his balls on every play.

ELM327 · 03-10-2017 09:03AM

We're like the opposite of the successful teams. We don't even have a defensive front anymore. Teams are running through on both passing and running plays, it's as if Bill is resigned to letting a 40 year old GOAT try to outscore the opposition, rather than defending at all.

I only saw the pats game at the weekend on the redzone rotation but our defense this year has been shocking. Agree with the van noy praise above, the guy has been playing at a very high level. We're missing Jamie Collins. And a d-line. And 75% of a secondary.

BizzyC · 03-10-2017 03:07PM

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but wasn't the Pats D crap in the first half of last season too?
It seems like it was only after a bunch of mid-year trades that things began to shape up and they began playing well towards the end of the season....

Shedite27 · 03-10-2017 03:43PM

We've conceded 128 points in 4 games. We'd conceded less than half that after 4 last season (61)

Last season it took us to game 8 to concede 128

BaronVon · 03-10-2017 07:21PM

BizzyC wrote: »

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but wasn't the Pats D crap in the first half of last season too?
It seems like it was only after a bunch of mid-year trades that things began to shape up and they began playing well towards the end of the season....

Yeah, it will improve, it normally does. A trade or 2 will happen, like when we picked up Ayers, Van Noy, McClellin etc. Although it would appear to be starting from a much lower floor this year.....

TOss Sweep · 03-10-2017 08:22PM

Pats Color Rush Jersey for Thursday. Doesn't look any different from the normal white one. Only difference is all white pants socks boots and gloves

j8wk2feszrnpao · 04-10-2017 07:50AM

infacteh wrote: »

A trade or 2 will happen

It has to happen.
The Pats went into the season expecting to have Rivers and Ealy (maybe even Niko at one stage).
Hightower injuries continue, and nothing from Harris.
Rowe is the 3rd corner in a disastrous secondary and is out with a bad looking groin injury.

ELM327 · 04-10-2017 08:18AM

Yes I can't see a superbowl win from the current personell. They can't ride a 40year old QB all year. With that amount of QB pressures, knockdowns and sacks an injury is bound to crop up.

We need a better defense to keep us in games and take some pressure off brady. I'm not sold on amendola as a replacement for Edelman, and if Gronk is injured - as per - I don't see where the 40+ ppg are coming from.

JaMarcusHustle · 04-10-2017 02:52PM

Brady's last 16 regular season games:

4,893 yards, 38 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 8.3 Yards Per Attempt.

Safe to say that would be a unanimous MVP award if all occurred within the same season.

We're going to need him at his absolute best if we're to make a playoff run if the first 4 games are anything to go by.

TOss Sweep · 04-10-2017 03:26PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Brady's last 16 regular season games:

4,893 yards, 38 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 8.3 Yards Per Attempt.

Safe to say that would be a unanimous MVP award if all occurred within the same season.

We're going to need him at his absolute best if we're to make a playoff run if the first 4 games are anything to go by.

Sad part is we have Brady firing on all cylinders and in the same form that could definitely win us a bowl. But our defense fooking sucks and an unless we fix it Brady will be playing at his very best for no reason.

I really hope we fix our defensive problems because I would love to see Brady continue on this form and beating on teams.

JaMarcusHustle · 05-10-2017 05:15PM

As TO said, we're wearing Color Rush tonight. But we're also wearing our home Color Rush (the ones we wore against the Texans last season) in 2 weeks against the Falcons on SNF.

Bit strange, thought they were limited to TNF only.

I'm $ure they have their rea$on$ for wearing them during $uch a high profile $unday Night Football game too.

TOss Sweep · 05-10-2017 09:36PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

As TO said, we're wearing Color Rush tonight. But we're also wearing our home Color Rush (the ones we wore against the Texans last season) in 2 weeks against the Falcons on SNF.

Bit strange, thought they were limited to TNF only.

I'm $ure they have their rea$on$ for wearing them during $uch a high profile $unday Night Football game too.

Your post now explain why they are back to full price and back on the websites and plenty in stock.

Have to say though I do like the Color Rush jersey from last season but to buy them they run smaller than the regular jerseys and really shouldn't be close in price to the regular ones though.

New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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