GAA Special Congress (Sep 30th)

PTH2009 · 05-09-2017 1:18pm #1

http://www.gaa.ie/news/motions-for-gaa-special-congress/

KevIRL · 05-09-2017 1:23pm

No change to the current system please.

PTH2009 · 05-09-2017 1:37pm

KevIRL wrote: »

No change to the current system please.

I'd love a change and there be more games but I'm not a huge fan of the round robin series as it's flawed a bit. In Leinster Galway, Wexford, Kilkenny and Dublin are all guaranteed 2 points when they face Offaly but in Munster it's ultra competitive and anyone can anyone on any given day.

I like this motions

Motion 3 - Tiobraid Árann

(1) It confines participation in the Liam MacCarthy Cup to five teams in Munster and five teams in Leinster.

(2) It differs from the Central Council Motion in that it proposes that the Munster and Leinster Championships be organised on a knock-out/losers group basis.

(3) Venues – Up to Semi-Finals – Home/Away.

Semi-Finals/Final – Neutral unless agreement between the counties.

(4) In the All-Ireland Quarter-Finals it provides for the defeated semi-finalists in each province to play-off, with the winners to meet the two defeated provincial finalists on a cross -provincial basis

(5) It concurs with the Central Council Motion regarding Tiers 2, 3, 4 and 5.

(6) Relegation/Promotion from Liam MacCarthy Cup: The Tier 2 winners will contest a play-off to determine relegation/promotion.

Motion 4 - Áth Cliath

It proposes no change to the current Provincial Championships System.

It amends the All-Ireland Qualifier Series to allow the four winners from Round One to progress to the All-Ireland Quarter-Finals i.e. no Round 2.

It proposes to increase the number of All-Ireland Quarter-Finals from two to four with the Provincial champions and runners up in both Leinster and Munster each respectively playing against one of the four winners of the All-Ireland Qualifier.

No other change to current Rule is proposed.

Motion 5 - Corcaigh

Liam MacCarthy Cup

(1) It proposes retaining the counties participating in the Provincial Championships as in current Rule.

(2) In the All-Ireland Qualifier Series it proposes retaining the current provisions except that there be no Round 2 and that four winners progress to All-Ireland Quarter-Finals.

(3) The principal proposed change is to run the All-Ireland Quarter-Finals on a similar basis to the new All-Ireland Football Quarter-Finals.

The All-Ireland Quarter-Finals to be organised on a ‘Round-Robin’ basis of two groups of four teams with each team in a group playing the other team once.

The teams participating to be the Provincial Champions and Runners-Up of the Munster and Leinster Championships and the four winning teams from the All-Ireland Qualifier Series.

Venues – To be determined by C.C.C.C.

All Ireland Senior Championship Tiers 2, 3 and 4

(4) Christy Ring Cup winners play in a preliminary quarter-final in the Liam MacCarthy Cup.

(5) Relegation/Promotion in relation to Liam MacCarthy Cup is to and from Leinster only.

(6) It proposes retaining the Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher Cups as Tiers 2, 3 and 4, with the participants being as provided for in current Rule.

(7) It concurs with the Central Council Motion that the three competitions be organised on a ‘Round-Robin’ basis.

05-09-2017 1:55pm

Great motion by Dublin.

Make basically no changes... sure let the football championship grow and leave hurling fans and players with 2-4 games.

Idiots.

puzl · 05-09-2017 2:07pm

Some very good ideas here, but also some daft ideas... Motion 4 is probably the best of the bunch.

PTH2009 · 05-09-2017 2:12pm

I'd choose motion 5

nice_guy80 · 05-09-2017 11:01pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'd choose motion 5

same as

could see the likes of Laois or Westmeath actually getting into that last 8

still don't like the idea of any super 8, in football or hurling

Bonniedog · 06-09-2017 12:34am

Tipp motion is most realistic. Recognises the reality.

Our own - DCB - motion I fail to understand, to be honest.

Django99 · 06-09-2017 1:28am

Why would Offaly be allowed to compete in the Liam McCarthy ahead of Laois, Kerry, Westmeath etc.? No evidence to suggest they are above their level.

Why abandon the ability for what will be Tier 2 counties to qualify to compete in the Liam McCarthy in the same year? This idea was brought in only a few years ago, were they expecting them to win All Irelands by now and are now saying it's a failed experiment?

While the structure for the top teams is important for spectators and players, the structure that Laois, Antrim, Offaly etc play in is the most important factor for the development of the game and having more teams competing at the top level.

These new proposals would be a backward step in trying to develop these counties into being able to compete with the top counties.

Of course, the development at underage level is even more important for these counties, but their current players also need to progress. Any possibility of doing so is severely hindered by these proposals.

Kerrydude1981 · 06-09-2017 9:35am

If that proposed championship got the go ahead,would counties object to been relegated to the tier two championship,

Wasnt there something a few years ago,I think it was Wexford played a game and loser was supposed to be relegated but neither team went down,that might have been in the league though

blue note · 06-09-2017 10:06am

How long is it going to take to just abandon the provincial championships? Since the back door came in fully in 2002, 7 Leinster teams have made it through to the semi final stage through it, compared to 24 from Munster. Yet both provinces get the same rewards. It's as clear as day that the provincial championships are lopsided, but we're not allowed to treat them differently for some reason.

An open championship would be better for 2 reasons - it would be fairer and teams would get to play each other more. It's crazy when there are so few counties at the top level how rarely some of them have met.

Bonniedog · 06-09-2017 12:51pm

Best option would actually be to leave it as it is, on consideration. Yes, it is true that round robins etc only postpone the inevitable but they allow for meaningful championship participation for the counties involved.

Anyway, we are always obsessed with trying to reinvent the wheel! that's not going to change ever in GAA.

LeinsterDub · 06-09-2017 1:09pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

same as

could see the likes of Laois or Westmeath actually getting into that last 8

still don't like the idea of any super 8, in football or hurling

Honestly what's the point? They aren't good enough

Django99 · 06-09-2017 8:49pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Honestly what's the point? They aren't good enough

The point is that they are counties that take hurling seriously and deserve an opportunity to improve.

LeinsterDub · 06-09-2017 8:53pm

Django99 wrote: »

The point is that they are counties that take hurling seriously and deserve an opportunity to improve.

Yes by being promoted into the Leinster or Munster championship and qualifying for the quarter final that way. A once a season token game will do nothing for them

Prop Joe · 06-09-2017 9:14pm

Below is the most simple and sensible solution

NHL Div 1
A - 5 Teams - 2 Relegated
B - 5 Teams - 2 Promoted - 2 Relegated
C - 6 Teams - 2 Promoted - Relegation Optional

Div 1 consists of 6 rounds - Including two wild card rounds

NHL Div 2
8 - Teams - 7 Games - (3 home,3 away and one as a curtain raiser to a Div1 game)
Promotion Optional for Winner / Relegation Optional

NHL Div 3
8 - Teams - 7 Games - (3 home,3 away and one as a curtain raiser to a Div1 game)
Promotion Optional for Winner

Munster & Leinster Championship

Group of 5
Each team plays two games with the top 4 qualilfying for semi finals (Top two home advantage)

Christy Ring Cup

Group of 6 (Developing Counties)
Each team plays three games with the top 4 qualilfying for semi finals (Top two home advantage) - Final played as Curtain Raiser to Leinster Final in Croke Park

All Ireland Series

16 Div 1 teams in seeded double elimination tournament
(Provencial winners kept opposition side of draw with home advantage guaranteed for first two games)

Nicky Rackard

8 Division 2 teams
2 groups of 4 with top team advancing to semi finals
Second & Third place play off in QF's
(QF's & Semi finals should be played as curtin raisers to tier 1 games where possible)
Final played as Curtin Raiser to All Ireland Semi final 1

Lory Meagher Cup

8 Division 3 teams
2 groups of 4 with top team advancing to semi finals
Second & Third place play off in QF's
(QF's & Semi finals should be played as curtin raisers to tier 1 games where possible)
Final played as Curtin Raiser to All Ireland Semi final 2

Minor Competitions
Should follow the same format as Senior tiers with all minor games played as curtin raisers when possible

Django99 · 06-09-2017 10:36pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Yes by being promoted into the Leinster or Munster championship and qualifying for the quarter final that way. A once a season token game will do nothing for them

It would do more than having one of those teams (Offaly) start off in the competition and have a straight one up one down promotion system. In that case, the only outcome we would likely see is the teams replacing each other every year.

At least in a system then that allows them games amongst each other, as well as allowing them games against better opposition can allow them to aim for something more than simply promotion.

Kerrydude1981 · 07-09-2017 9:14am

From a Kerry hurling supporters point of view its been great that we have had championship games against teams around our own level and both seasons the round robin has been competitive,like this season all the teams had a chance of qualifying going into the last round

Leave the championship the way it is.

paul0103 · 08-09-2017 9:47am

As is almost always the case with proposals for structural change, the reaction from past players, managers etc seems to be quite knee jerk, and ill-informed. It seems that many of those reacting just read a headline.

Personally, I think the current format isn't too bad, but hurling really needs to do something to counteract the 'Super 8's'. So if change was to happen (and it probably should), I really can't see anything wrong with Motion 2, from the CCCC, combined with the joint motion from Meath/Laois/Offaly as an addition to this. Ok, it means potentially one less game for the top 2 teams that currently qualify from the provincial qualifier group, but it does give them a realistic chance (especially Laois) of playing in the All Ireland quarter finals.

It is frustrating to see the reaction in recent days, as it is only based on one of the proposals. Of course this is all that gets reported instead of a journalist somewhere explaining exactly what the championship might look like for each of the proposals (maybe I missed this somewhere?). It's very hard for change to happen if people never read beyond the headlines.

nice_guy80 · 08-09-2017 4:35pm

paul0103 wrote: »

As is almost always the case with proposals for structural change, the reaction from past players, managers etc seems to be quite knee jerk, and ill-informed. It seems that many of those reacting just read a headline.

Personally, I think the current format isn't too bad, but hurling really needs to do something to counteract the 'Super 8's'. So if change was to happen (and it probably should), I really can't see anything wrong with Motion 2, from the CCCC, combined with the joint motion from Meath/Laois/Offaly as an addition to this. Ok, it means potentially one less game for the top 2 teams that currently qualify from the provincial qualifier group, but it does give them a realistic chance (especially Laois) of playing in the All Ireland quarter finals.

It is frustrating to see the reaction in recent days, as it is only based on one of the proposals. Of course this is all that gets reported instead of a journalist somewhere explaining exactly what the championship might look like for each of the proposals (maybe I missed this somewhere?). It's very hard for change to happen if people never read beyond the headlines.

the hurling games just show how poor the football championship has been

that will stand out even more with the Super 8s

PTH2009 · 08-09-2017 4:47pm

paul0103 wrote: »

As is almost always the case with proposals for structural change, the reaction from past players, managers etc seems to be quite knee jerk, and ill-informed. It seems that many of those reacting just read a headline.

Personally, I think the current format isn't too bad, but hurling really needs to do something to counteract the 'Super 8's'. So if change was to happen (and it probably should), I really can't see anything wrong with Motion 2, from the CCCC, combined with the joint motion from Meath/Laois/Offaly as an addition to this. Ok, it means potentially one less game for the top 2 teams that currently qualify from the provincial qualifier group, but it does give them a realistic chance (especially Laois) of playing in the All Ireland quarter finals.

It is frustrating to see the reaction in recent days, as it is only based on one of the proposals. Of course this is all that gets reported instead of a journalist somewhere explaining exactly what the championship might look like for each of the proposals (maybe I missed this somewhere?). It's very hard for change to happen if people never read beyond the headlines.

If motion 2 comes in (and I sadly think it will) than its not really much of an All Ireland Championship as 4 teams will be eliminated without playing a team outside of there province. Munster is going to be a nightmare with 2 big teams going out by potentially the end of May/early June and Leinster only losing 1 big team (Offaly will be the weakest team by far a will surly be 1 of 2 Leinster teams to be eliminated early)

iDave · 08-09-2017 5:08pm

Slap on the face to those of us in Meath Westmeath Carlow Kerry etc. Sure why bother growing the game.

Kerrydude1981 · 08-09-2017 5:25pm

iDave wrote: »

Slap on the face to those of us in Meath Westmeath Carlow Kerry etc. Sure why bother growing the game.

Spot on,the Super 8's in the football have struck this fear into the hurling world,everything must change apparently

paul0103 · 11-09-2017 12:08pm

iDave wrote: »

Slap on the face to those of us in Meath Westmeath Carlow Kerry etc. Sure why bother growing the game.

I don't really get why you think that? If the changes mean there is still a provincial qualifying group (with the bonus of Meath avoiding relegation!) with a route for the top two teams in the group into the All Ireland series how is that different from what we have now? The new structure will also have automatic promotion for the top team, which is even better than having to beat a team that wasn't in the group to gain promotion, which is the case at the minute.

I don't believe any of the teams in the qualifying group have a 'right' to be included in the Top 10. When is the last time any of Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, Kerry, Meath, Carlow, Antrim, London beat a team outside of that list?

Now, the GAA's attitude towards counties in the qualifying group (and all of the lower tires) is something I would take issue with. Proper marketing and TV coverage, along with meaningful time and investment from the GAA at underage in these counties would do a lot more to help grow the game.

puzl · 11-09-2017 1:52pm

Football seasons have been poor recently, and I think the super 8s will amplify the problem. There'll be few people rushing home of a weekend to catch all the super 8 action on tv and many might just tune out until we get to the business end of the season.

PTH2009 · 28-09-2017 12:50am

Takes place on Saturday (are they doing the live youtube stream???)

Main proposals here- http://www.the42.ie/special-congress-hurling-motions-3618534-Sep2017/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

I'd like if the following was voted in

All Ireland Under 21 structure-The CCCC/Ard Chomhairle (Motion 9) proposes that Galway and any suitable Ulster teams (as agreed by Ulster & Leinster Councils) participate in Leinster. And the winners of Munster and Leinster shall play in the All-Ireland Final

'Dublin (Motion 4) proposes no change to the provincial championships, but increases the All-Ireland quarter-finals to four games. It proposes the provincial champions and runners-up in Leinster and Munster meet one of four winners from Round 1 of the All-Ireland qualifiers.

Cork (Motion 5) proposes the same as the Dublin motion (above), but instead of four quarter-finals it proposes bringing in the ‘Super 8s’ similar to football'

I'd vote for Corks Motion and would love a super 8 hurling but theres a danger of one of the big counties being paired together in Round 1 of the qualifers and they will miss out on the super 8s. Imagine Someone like Kilkenny, Dublin, Cork or Waterford losing in Round 1 missing out on the super 8 and someone like Offaly there??

munchkin_utd · 28-09-2017 9:42am

also worth noting, its the first congress where 60% is the pass limit, down from 66%

With so many conflicting ideas and opinions and not even the big hurling counties agreeing with each other (and the 2nd tier counties will be protesting against everything), I can't see any change in the hurling getting through with the required majority so in the end it could well be a bit of a non event.

Hammer Archer · 28-09-2017 11:05am

So has it already been decided that Antrim will be in the Liam McCarthy regardless? Hope not.

Mehapoy · 28-09-2017 11:20am

Yes the most certain thing is no proposal will get the majority and we'll have the status quo with long gaps between games to try to fill 4 months with 6-7 games until football takes over July and august totally, by which time they might be able to agree something. Its the gaa way isn't it...

PTH2009 · 28-09-2017 3:55pm

I want more intercounty hurling games and not less. All these chairman's coming out saying they don't want it changed cause of club fixtures etc and hurling is going to suffer cause the football is getting what 8 extra championship games and hurling championship will only have a small number of games compared too the football if it's not changed

PTH2009 · 30-09-2017 12:07pm

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0930/908696-gaa-special-congress-tracker/

Live tracker of today's events

GAA Special Congress (Sep 30th)

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