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New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Quick check on the stats; we are 32rd in yards allowed per game, 32rd in pts allowed per game.
    Joint 21st in terms of sacks.

    Early in the season, and just 3 games in, but the stats back up the eye test.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Quick check on the stats; we are 32rd in yards allowed per game, 32rd in pts allowed per game.
    Joint 21st in terms of sacks.

    Early in the season, and just 3 games in, but the stats back up the eye test.

    to be honest, I think the stats papered over the eye test last year too. We played a weak schedule and the defence was not impressive. Their stats were good, but I think this year the stats are starting to show their true form. David Harris is so far a huge bust. what, 6 snaps or something this season so far? That's awful. Malcolm Butler has been really poor this year too and so far is not showing any reason for him to get his bumper pay day. Hightower is a big loss, but he cant be the only reason for it to be so bad right now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,510 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I think it's fair to say that we are leaning on our offense big time. Moreso than any other team with a 40 year old QB will have done in the past. I'm surprised at those stats for a BB coached team.

    The patriots (2007 excepted) have never been an "outscoring" team like the saints try to be. We are supposed to be calculated on defense and win the game by winning the chess match.

    I almost feel that we are lucky to be 2-1, which is a strange place to be as a pats fan for 15+ years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    bruschi wrote: »
    to be honest, I think the stats papered over the eye test last year too. We played a weak schedule and the defence was not impressive. Their stats were good, but I think this year the stats are starting to show their true form.

    I think you're spot on there. I think last year's stats were overinflated by the schedule. In the Super Bowl we met our first elite offense and they ripped the defense apart. Only for more Brady heroics, it could have been a complete humiliation. On the subject of Butler, I'm not sure how the rest of ye feel, but I'll be shocked if he isn't traded before the deadline.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,510 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    We don't need him anymore after the high profile signing of Gilmore.
    I'd say he will be traded.

    As we know, BB doesn't do sentimentality - which is the only reason i can see that butler would remain. If big vince can be let go then anyone can!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    ELM327 wrote: »
    We don't need him anymore after the high profile signing of Gilmore.
    I'd say he will be traded.

    As we know, BB doesn't do sentimentality - which is the only reason i can see that butler would remain. If big vince can be let go then anyone can!

    True, Bill doesn't do sentimentality and if Bill thinks Butler's performance is slipping because of what happened during the summer? Then he will be gone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    The thing is with Butler who do we replace him with? His performances may be slipping but its not exactly like the guys sitting behind him are any better. Gilmore also hasn't really lit it up either. Defensively we are poor all round


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    So ESPN think Adam Butler is our other starting CB

    2017-09-26_1320.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,019 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Well I've had this belief for a couple of years now that the Patriots aren't winding up players to full game fitness on purpose for a couple of games.

    Look at our first six games which were and are Chiefs, Saints, Texans, Panthers and Jets.

    It's not too hard to go 4-2 there and then have everybody up for the Falcons and Chargers and a bye week before two of our toughest games of the regular season in Denver and Oakland.

    As I've said before I may be way off on this but I just feel we are keeping players below full fitness on purpose so that they last the season. Injury had gotten in our way a lot in the past and over the past couple of years we haven't had that bad injury run like before.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Well I've had this belief for a couple of years now that the Patriots aren't winding up players to full game fitness on purpose for a couple of games.

    Look at our first six games which were and are Chiefs, Saints, Texans, Panthers and Jets.

    It's not too hard to go 4-2 there and then have everybody up for the Falcons and Chargers and a bye week before two of our toughest games of the regular season in Denver and Oakland.

    As I've said before I may be way off on this but I just feel we are keeping players below full fitness on purpose so that they last the season. Injury had gotten in our way a lot in the past and over the past couple of years we haven't had that bad injury run like before.

    Keeping them below full fitness? What sense does that make? If the players go through proper conditioning all season long then they will last all season long especially when it matters.

    Plenty of articles that suggest you are wrong and the Pats keep their players at peak conditioning all season long.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-players-hill-sprints-paid-off-in-super-bowl-2017-2
    When the Atlanta Falcons faltered down the stretch of Super Bowl 51 on Sunday, the New England Patriots kept coming.

    Over the course of the game, the Patriots ran 99 plays to the Falcons' 49, according to CSN New England's Phil Perry, simply wearing down the Falcons.

    Conditioning can be an overlooked aspect of sports, in part because it's hard to see and define. However, in Super Bowl 51, it ended up being a defining factor. The Falcons defense was tired after spending so much time chasing the Patriots, and down the stretch, they couldn't get to Tom Brady or slow down his receivers.

    The secret to the Patriots' conditioning is a basic, old-school drill that players alluded to after the game as a deciding factor: sprinting up a hill.

    Julian Edelman, one of the game's biggest heroes, said of the Patriots outlasting the Falcons: "We've got these stupid hills in Foxborough that we have to run, like literally, until we left. We all b---- and complain about it. But hey, we do it. We put in the work. We put in the conditioning."

    As Perry documented in July, the hills behind the Gillette Stadium are a big part of the Patriots' training. There are two hills, according to Perry. "One is 20 yards long and steep. The other is 60 yards long and features more of a gradual incline," he wrote. They are both finely manicured, with 5-yard lines so players know the distance left to run.

    The Patriots run these hills in training camp, but apparently they were running them up until the week before the Super Bowl.

    "We were running the hill last week," said tight end Martellus Bennett. "And I was like, who runs the hill in Week 23? Guys were tired, but guys got out there, they ran full speed up the hill. We're just a team that works."

    It's not a fun task for the players. Wide receiver Danny Amendola told Perry that "it's a beast, for sure," while tackle Nate Solder compared it to taking medicine.

    However, the act of sprinting up the incline helps players. Nick Caserio, the director of player personnel, told Sirius XM Radio over the summer: "That hill's great. That hill gets them in shape pretty quickly. Those guys don't like it, but they'll probably, in the fourth quarter, realize it's worthwhile."


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭mcgratheoin


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    Keeping them below full fitness? What sense does that make? If the players go through proper conditioning all season long then they will last all season long especially when it matters.

    I think he means that they may not be at peak sharpness this early in the season - essentially that they're still working on their base conditioning to get it to such a high level. There is a reasonable argument to be made that the Pats (Brady definitely does) plan every season around being at their best for the Super Bowl whereas other teams may taper towards their first game and find it hard to maintain that level throughout the season.


    http://www.bostonsbigfour.com/?p=12251


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    I think he means that they may not be at peak sharpness this early in the season - essentially that they're still working on their base conditioning to get it to such a high level. There is a reasonable argument to be made that the Pats (Brady definitely does) plan every season around being at their best for the Super Bowl whereas other teams may taper towards their first game and find it hard to maintain that level throughout the season.


    http://www.bostonsbigfour.com/?p=12251

    I have seen this suggested by a few beat writers and general Joes and no one has ever proven it other than it being theory.

    As for Tom Brady he keeps himself in peak fitness all year round. If you read his book he talks about keeping his fitness level at its highest all year round. He talks about the various plans and methods he uses for both in season and off season.

    It is well known that the Pats do conditioning from the start of camp all the way through the post season though which is abnormal for a lot of teams. Doing that much conditioning can only lead to Peak one would assume.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭mcgratheoin


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    As for Tom Brady he keeps himself in peak fitness all year round. If you read his book he talks about keeping his fitness level at its highest all year round. He talks about the various plans and methods he uses for both in season and off season.
    Didn't he mention at one point that even if the Pats are eliminated he still keeps his workout plan going up to the SB?
    It is well known that the Pats do conditioning from the start of camp all the way through the post season though which is abnormal for a lot of teams. Doing that much conditioning can only lead to Peak one would assume.

    I don't disagree with what the Pats do, I'm just pointing out that doing conditioning work consistently through the season is not a typical way of reaching or maintaining peak fitness. If you look at any other sport, you build your fitness through a base phase before tapering towards a peak for your targeted event. There isn't a single athlete out there that would be running hills a week before the Olympics. Given the difficulty in maintaining a peak (the clue is in the name) it appears as if the Patriots have decided to build a plateau of fitness that remains consistent across the season (hence the heavy endurance work throughout the year). The corollary of this is that other teams who may operate a more peak/trough fitness regime could potentially be sharper than the Pats in the early season.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Didn't he mention at one point that even if the Pats are eliminated he still keeps his workout plan going up to the SB?

    Yup he does
    I don't disagree with what the Pats do, I'm just pointing out that doing conditioning work consistently through the season is not a typical way of reaching or maintaining peak fitness. If you look at any other sport, you build your fitness through a base phase before tapering towards a peak for your targeted event. There isn't a single athlete out there that would be running hills a week before the Olympics. Given the difficulty in maintaining a peak (the clue is in the name) it appears as if the Patriots have decided to build a plateau of fitness that remains consistent across the season (hence the heavy endurance work throughout the year). The corollary of this is that other teams who may operate a more peak/trough fitness regime could potentially be sharper than the Pats in the early season.

    I wont go too much into this conversation but I agree it is difficult to maintain peak fitness because as many believe you can be too fit and your fitness becomes stale and leads to injury and fatigue. I find it hard to believe that all NFL teams with the money spent on Strength and conditioning that any of them every really reach a true peak fitness for this reason. Then again the Falcons looked like that maybe that was the case for them. Either way you have to believe that all NFL teams would maintain a plateau that keep them at an acceptable level throughout the season. I could be way off though and open to correction.

    Either way I wouldn't use that as the argument as to why the Patriots start off slow in September. So many changing pieces and guys not fully adjusted to the system is probably closer to the reason. Realistically the 1 regular season game is when you only get a true sense of how good your team really is and what level of ability with your system every player is at. The CBA ruined training camps for the amount of work they do and pre-season is for testing new guys and rookies and testing their football abilities and skills.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭mcgratheoin


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    Then again the Falcons looked like that maybe that was the case for them. Either way you have to believe that all NFL teams would maintain a plateau that keep them at an acceptable level throughout the season.

    It probably varies from team to team as to what the acceptable balance is between speed and endurance though. It appears as if the Pats prioritized endurance more than the Falcons. Falcons were quicker than the Pats early on but superior endurance told in the end. I wonder how (and if) teams calculate how many snaps they need to be able to go full gas for in a game before their speed drops off. It's similar to Bolt racing Farah over a series of 100m races with no rest in between. How many races before Farah beats Bolt?

    I agree with your points on pre season as well, it's not until a few real games that systems gel together.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Irish94


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    As for Tom Brady he keeps himself in peak fitness all year round. If you read his book he talks about keeping his fitness level at its highest all year round. He talks about the various plans and methods he uses for both in season and off season.

    Does he have an auto-biography?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Irish94 wrote: »
    Does he have an auto-biography?

    Nope TB12 Method is the name of the book based on he keeps himself in tip top shape

    9781501180750_p0_v4_s550x406.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Despite how brilliant he has been, I didn't realise how bad the O line has protected Brady until I read an article from Mike Reiss. 19 hits and 10 sacks through 3 games so far is shocking stuff. At this rate he's on pace to be sacked 53 times and there's no way that can be tolerated for the GOAT who is now 40 years old. It's dicing with fire allowing that level of performance from the O line, so Scar needs to stop it asap.
    http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806258/patriots-flirting-with-trouble-if-they-dont-limit-hits-tom-brady-is-taking


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Defense is the worst in the league right now and they are again looking like the worst defense in the league. Horrible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭JaMarcusHustle


    Secondary has been downright scandalous. That last drive was the worst I've seen in years. Blown coverages and miscommunications on every play. Heads have to roll for this. It's not acceptable.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Secondary has been downright scandalous. That last drive was the worst I've seen in years. Blown coverages and miscommunications on every play. Heads have to roll for this. It's not acceptable.

    No pass rush and no secondary. Someone needs to step it up or trades need to happen worst defense we have ever had. Gilmore even blows hot and cold and Butler looks awful should have traded him. Truly is shocking


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    I think it's unanimous, we have the worst defense in the NFL and it's the worst Pats defense I have ever seen. And that's going back to before the Belichick era.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭me89


    I think it's unanimous, we have the worst defense in the NFL and it's the worst Pats defense I have ever seen. And that's going back to before the Belichick era.

    Wouldn't even call it a defense.

    Free receivers running everywhere.

    Embarrassing stuff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭JaMarcusHustle


    Deserved loss. Pitiful secondary. Absolutely embarrassing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭me89


    108 points conceded in 3 home games


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,312 ✭✭✭✭paulie21


    Short week as well playing in Tampa on Thursday night


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭JaMarcusHustle


    Kind of wish we had kept Logan Ryan instead of getting Gilmore.

    Butler also making me lose all affinity for him with his performances. For someone who's going to be looking for a new team this offseason, he's doing an embarrassing job of advertising himself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    That defense needs a miracle. It also needs better discipline. Our secondary are all experienced guys and played like a bunch of rookies today with bad discipline. Our front 7 finally got into the game when it mattered but it wasnt to be due to stupid mistakes. Got to go find some FA or trades to help that defense out cant see how these guys can get any better.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    me89 wrote: »
    Wouldn't even call it a defense.

    Free receivers running everywhere.

    Embarrassing stuff.


    Ya I know, I was probably a bit generous calling them a defense.

    Cam has been utterly rubbish for some time now. He comes to Gillette and they make him look like a star. In fact, they'd make us look like stars at QB.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭ftse100


    Awful stuff, Gilmore 65m, what a bust. We 100% deserved to lose that there is only so much brady can do. Awful stuff


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