Playstation Clan clean up/migrations/management

Riesen_Meal · 15-09-2017 12:22pm

jcd5971 wrote: »

I just can't see why we couldn't have had community and messages don't see the need for an either or option.

Im not sure you are seeing Admin side here jcd, in order for that to be the case -
roughly 100 people per clan have to be friended by Admins and thrown into 2 entirely separate chats, clan 1 and clan 2, therefore negating the whole idea of us being 1 clan...

ibFoxer · 15-09-2017 12:23pm

DaveNoCheese wrote: »

The boards clan is called Irish Boards XBL but I couldn't care less if we had people in there who didn't even know what boards was once they are somewhat active players and get along with everyone else.

A thousand times this. It should first and foremost always be about inclusion, or else what is the point of a social gaming experience? This is exactly what Bungie are driving at with guided games, inclusion. I'm sorry but exclusion is off the table and if it ever came down to it, i know we would change the name of the clan ad disassociate from Boards before ever removing anyone.

The fact that anyone would want to exclude because someone isn't signed up to a particular forum is, frankly, ludicrous and would leave me questioning their judgement in other areas.

Generic Dreadhead · 15-09-2017 12:26pm

jcd5971 wrote: »

I just can't see why we couldn't have had community and messages don't see the need for an either or option.

In essence, we had that already, with an even bigger Community page (212 members atm), and people used messages only. So you end up with 100 people in messages and those 100 don't then use Communties. And then you need to decide what 100 get into the messages creating a 2 tier system.

Mitch Connor · 15-09-2017 12:29pm

Fieldog wrote: »

Im not sure you are seeing Admin side here jcd, in order for that to be the case -
roughly 100 people per clan have to be friended by Admins and thrown into 2 entirely separate chats, clan 1 and clan 2, therefore negating the whole idea of us being 1 clan...

Its not even the friending and managing of the chat (only a point in their being one, imo) - its the fact you can't get all members of both clans into a chat. If the messages limit was 200 and not 100 we would never have made the change. The goal was, and should be, to include everyone.

Communities is the only one that does that.

Elephant in the room though is, imo, in a couple of months the amount of people that you would probably describe as active clan members will likely be less than 100 anyway.

When we did our purge of clan 1 and 2 a month or so back I think we got down to 120 or so in total. I know a load were kept in the clan that hadn't been active in an age, because Destiny 1 had lost its appeal for lots a long time ago). I don't know if all that were kept have actually come back and joined back in. We have near 200 members but I think only 105 or so in the community - which might be indicative of activeness in the clan/game.

ibFoxer · 15-09-2017 12:31pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

Now Dave, you tell me where I have said I want users removed from the clan. I can tell you now I never said such a thing so dont go putting words in my mouth.

jonnycivic wrote: »

Well if 50 only used Boards.ie then why are they in the Boards.ie clan. Its a clan setup for the users of the forum, plain and simple as that.

While not outright stated, appearances suggest it is your opinion.

DaveNoCheese · 15-09-2017 12:33pm

ibFoxer wrote: »

While not outright stated, appearances suggest it is your opinion.

^ this

Mitch Connor · 15-09-2017 12:35pm

Look at what he says re. Reddit though - I think he is saying signing up to boards should be a requirement. We arrange and discuss stuff on here - then we can use messages as the communication method between already arranged groups. I think.

I don't think it solves any of the stated issues though. Notifications still a big issue and people are as unlikely (less likely?) to see a riad posting on here at 9pm when they are messing around in strikes as they are to see it in communities.

Kimbot · 15-09-2017 12:37pm

ibFoxer wrote: »

While not outright stated, appearances suggest it is your opinion.

Again thats putting words in my mouth. Unless I state it then dont attribute it to me. I will be outstraight with what I say so If I wanted to say kick them out of the clan then I would simply say Kick them out of the clan and I wouldnt suger coat it.

I have had my say on the issues here and it has been made very clear that my opinion on it means SFA. Its common sense to expect the majority of the clan to be boards users if the clan is the Boards.ie destiny clan. If its a reddit destiny clan then I would expect it to be made up of reddit members the same if its another website.

Riesen_Meal · 15-09-2017 12:39pm

As I said earlier, hands up, it was wrong of me to suggest non boardsie players should be removed from the Clan as I had a look at who from the Clan didn't post here and there are some great players and contributors, I am aware the notifications is a pain but for now I don't think there is a better option but as I said previous, I am open to any decent suggestions....

ibFoxer · 15-09-2017 12:40pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Look at what he says re. Reddit though - I think he is saying signing up to boards should be a requirement. We arrange and discuss stuff on here - then we can use messages as the communication method between already arranged groups. I think.

THIS is exactly why we have the WhatsApp group. This exact reason. And if folk were sketchy about handing over their number, we would have used Discord, or any other platform. I'm sorry but it's practically inconceivable that the vast majority of players don't have hands on access to a phone, tablet or laptop/PC at any given time, and while it's ultimately not the perfect solution, you play the hand you are dealt.

Generic Dreadhead · 15-09-2017 12:41pm

If either the game activity drops in a few months to have 100 or less "active" players or Communities never gets an update/patch to fix the main issue some people are having with it, I have no issue reverting back to using chat.

It's not something I would advocate on the basis of 8 days of experience and feedback. As I said, it's actually getting more and more active over the last few days. A lot of people are ignoring that "grouping up" wasn't even required until the last few days also, hence, dead Community.

For now I was advocating giving the newbies a chance to get acclimated and Communities a chance to gain some momentum and increase in activity now that more End Game content is unlocking. Communities isn't perfect, but it's a bit early for knee-jerk reactions, well imho.

FWIW: If anyone is actually looking at Communities, I'm currently seeing a lot of posts yesterday and Wednesday from new users and them interacting with new and old alike to get grouped up, and that's what I've always liked to see personally.

There's a lot of thrashing Communities, but people are using it and having some success.
Perhaps if we all focused our efforts there we'd see even more success.
Those posts made in the Clan 1 Destiny Chat on Bungie being included over the last 8 days would have helped, those posts being included over the next 8 days would be even more helpful now given many are finished the road to 265.
But if there's such a resistance to change it's making people basically have a Black and White "I'm not going to use Communities no matter what anyone says", no-one can convince those people regardless, and I'm not gonna try, I just hoped we'd get behind it and we'd understand the logic behind why we did it.

TitianGerm · 15-09-2017 12:41pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

Again thats putting words in my mouth. Unless I state it then dont attribute it to me. I will be outstraight with what I say so If I wanted to say kick them out of the clan then I would simply say Kick them out of the clan and I wouldnt suger coat it.

I have had my say on the issues here and it has been made very clear that my opinion on it means SFA. Its common sense to expect the majority of the clan to be boards users if the clan is the Boards.ie destiny clan. If its a reddit destiny clan then I would expect it to be made up of reddit members the same if its another website.

Theres quite a few on the Xbox side that are not on Boards. If it came down to choosing those guys or making the clan Boards only I'd choose the lads everytime.

ibFoxer · 15-09-2017 12:47pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

Again thats putting words in my mouth. Unless I state it then dont attribute it to me.

As i said, appearances suggest, not that it was outright stated. If i'm wrong, i'll hold my hand up, but i think you could see how it could be perceived that way.

Mitch Connor · 15-09-2017 12:49pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

I have had my say on the issues here and it has been made very clear that my opinion on it means SFA. Its common sense to expect the majority of the clan to be boards users if the clan is the Boards.ie destiny clan. If its a reddit destiny clan then I would expect it to be made up of reddit members the same if its another website.

I don't think the first part is fair.

We are trying to discuss things here and hash them out (Should have been done before but past is past) - but I don't feel you are providing any alternatives and explaining how we could go about it in practice. I'm only seeing that communities is sh1te, messages were great and people should be on boards.

Given the facts of the situation - ~200 clan members across 2 clans - how do you propose we best integrate them so that the most people possible can be included in any raid, strike, pvp offerings?

I think posting on here about future raid plans is certainly a valid proposal and then use *some clan wide communication tool* to offer up ad hoc spots for stuff.

What are your suggestions to cater for the entire group?

On the boards things - what is your point on this? That people, in general, should be boards users - so that 90% organising goes on here and if you aren't on boards.ie you are liable to miss out? Yeah, maybe. If they aren't what do you want - we just tell them to sign up or live with the consequences? - I can totally see where the interpretation of your post comes from cause I don't think you have articulated why you brought it up. Even if we go that route - what do we do for ad hoc communications of raid spots or pvp? Just use clan chat? So me and generic can't talk to clan 1 peeps (or vice versa) for example? we create a PSN chat for ~100 top/active members? I feel people would gravitate towards using that and, in practicality, section off the new players in either/both clans.

PlainP · 15-09-2017 12:50pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Look at what he says re. Reddit though - I think he is saying signing up to boards should be a requirement. We arrange and discuss stuff on here - then we can use messages as the communication method between already arranged groups. I think.

I don't think it solves any of the stated issues though. Notifications still a big issue and people are as unlikely (less likely?) to see a riad posting on here at 9pm when they are messing around in strikes as they are to see it in communities.

If everyone is told that communities is the place to go for raids etc this is where people should be posting to get the information. We all play on PS. This "should" be where you go to get your information not 3rd party apps. If everyone can fit in the community then everybody is included.

As someone else mentioned earlier its one click away on your phone to refresh the page and PS will probably put in a noifiication update at some stage.

If people have such an issue with the name of the Clan surely this could be changed so everyone would feel included.

The amount of Admin that was involved for certain people when the groups chats existed in D1 was unfair and would be totally unworkable now for D2 imo.

Communities should be the place for everyone just keep refreshing until PS get the finger out with an update.

Kimbot · 15-09-2017 12:54pm

emmetkenny wrote: »

Theres quite a few on the Xbox side that are not on Boards. If it came down to choosing those guys or making the clan Boards only I'd choose the lads everytime.

I didn't say that tho Emmet, take a step back and realise what I am pointing out here. Boards.ie is a platform to arrange game sessions etc and it worked well for year 1 2 and 3. If as I said I went looking for clans and came across an Xbox clan called "Buttercup.com destiny clan" then naturally I would go to buttercup.com and interact with the users there as that's where the clan most likely has been formed. Everyone has access to the internet if they are gaming online so using the website connected to the clan to arrange thing makes the most sense IMO. That's not to say I'm right and everyone else is wrong it's just my view of it all.

Generic Dreadhead · 15-09-2017 12:57pm

PlainP wrote: »

The amount of Admin that was involved for certain people when the groups chats existed in D1

TRIGGERED

Mitch Connor · 15-09-2017 12:58pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

I didn't say that tho Emmet, take a step back and realise what I am pointing out here. Boards.ie is a platform to arrange game sessions etc and it worked well for year 1 2 and 3.

I don't think anyone has said this shouldn't be done here, now, though?

SirConar set up a raid team for last night on here yesterday iirc.

You/We can still do that same thing here and now - so whats the problem? We're just asking people use communities for whatever they would have used PSN Messages for previously - cause that is where the entire clan has access to see the messages and not just a subsection of 100 hand picked clan members or just members from that persons specific clan.

roadie_2013 · 15-09-2017 1:01pm

SolvableKnave wrote: »

Genuine question: Who here does NOT have their phone / tablet beside them when playing? Any game, not just Destiny? I would hazard a guess that most do. So, the suggestions of Discord / Band, are good, but require the downloading of an app, which will require your device of choice to be sat next to you.

I've downloaded both to get a quick feel for them. Discord seems to be the easier of the 2. Both require registration, band requires verification of your email address. While either one could be a viable alternative, you are still required to have a device next to you, as is the case with communities currently due to no notifications on all new posts.

We're open to all suggestions, but they need to be suggestions, not angry posts about how the community has fractured due to no notifications from communities app. Is that's all it takes to fragment the community we've built??? Personally, having the communities app open on the phone and refreshing the feed every now and then is no great deal breaker for me.

I think that the fact you have your phone beside you to check the PS Communities app all the time for updates offers the chance to use a phone based app that is better than Communities. If you have to have your phone beside you why not avail of a better solution than the Communities app?

TitianGerm · 15-09-2017 1:01pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

I didn't say that tho Emmet, take a step back and realise what I am pointing out here. Boards.ie is a platform to arrange game sessions etc and it worked well for year 1 2 and 3. If as I said I went looking for clans and came across an Xbox clan called "Buttercup.com destiny clan" then naturally I would go to buttercup.com and interact with the users there as that's where the clan most likely has been formed. Everyone has access to the internet if they are gaming online so using the website connected to the clan to arrange thing makes the most sense IMO. That's not to say I'm right and everyone else is wrong it's just my view of it all.

I didn't say that you said that but from your post that ibFoxer linked it gives the impression that you want members to be Boardsies, clearly that's not the case now that you've cleared it up.

As far as I was aware most of your organisation on PS for everything went on in the PS messages? I didn't see an awful lot of arranging going on on Boards itself (maybe I just missed it).

Personally when I'm in work I'll keep an eye on our WhatsApp (organised crucible for tonight) and then if I'm running solo in patrol I'll check my friends list to see who's on and send out a few invites to group up, if no one is around/appearing offline a quick message gets a few replies.

jcd5971 · 15-09-2017 1:01pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote:

In essence, we had that already, with an even bigger Community page (212 members atm), and people used messages only. So you end up with 100 people in messages and those 100 don't then use Communties. And then you need to decide what 100 get into the messages creating a 2 tier system.

I'm not saying I'm right or even that I have a solution.

But your post kind of neatly gets to the point I'm driving at, people when they had a choice roundly rejected communities in favour of messages.

I get what the goal is and I agree with it, but it was too soon.

Without full functionality its like moving into a house with no roof.

I think in an effort to include everyone, we've just ensured no one has what they had before.

Personnaly my "bad blood" so to speak is the fact that destiny clan chat was just closed without warning, people were using it.

Dude and fielddog pointed out legitimately that it excluded clan 2.

But the people posting there aren't using communities anyway.

I dunno really.

And I think Johnny is just frustrated.

For example generic you were fairly rude yourself in the old chat to, myself and totz and basically anyone else that didn't want to leave it.

Tensions are high we are all friends I'd like to think after 3 years and squabbales happen.

That being said I apologise if people are feeling I'm disregarding there efforts over that time I'm not

I just worry that we are going to get a lot of drift after the shiny car smell wears off destiny 2 and I don't see communi ties fostering the same "community" that messages did which is bloody ironic

Mickeroo · 15-09-2017 1:02pm

I think if everyone took a step back and stops taking the clan side of things so seriously a lot of the issues will sort themselves out. As Fieldog said it's just a game.

Once you have a few people you're friendly with and game regularly with the clan has served its purpose. Open your friends list and invite them to a party and just play the game. If you need to find people to play with check the clan roster and send an invite or message through the game/psn or post on here you want one or two people for a nightfall(I saw a raid organised on here just like this yesterday). Then add those people to your friends list and continue to enjoy the game, have the craic with them on boards afterwards or whatsapp or wherever. No management or hand holding required.

Also, restricting the clans to people only active here is a compete non runner. Plenty of people I game with just got my gamertag through lurking on boards over the years and even the xbox clan as small as it is has members that joined this way as well as people who were gaming buddies of boardsies but don't post here. Its just the way these things are. I even play Destiny with people who (Shock horror) aren't in the same clan as me. Ultimately the clans are part of the game not part of boards and telling someone who they are supposed to play/clan up with is not anyone's job but that person themself.

ibFoxer · 15-09-2017 1:05pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

Boards.ie is a platform to arrange game sessions etc and it worked well for year 1 2 and 3. I

As far as i can recall, within the group that i play with, 90% of activities were arranged outside of boards, via either XBL, or the WhatsApp group. Now that group has expanded recently with D2 but i imagine the same will continue going forward because it is much easier to check your phone than an online forum.

Mitch Connor · 15-09-2017 1:13pm

roadie_2013 wrote: »

I think that the fact you have your phone beside you to check the PS Communities app all the time for updates offers the chance to use a phone based app that is better than Communities. If you have to have your phone beside you why not avail of a better solution than the Communities app?

I would agree, but only if communities was only a mobile app. The fact it is baked into the console is the seller for it. The fact is notifications SHOULD work as people want them too. That they don't is an error/bug with the tool, not a design decision.

Generic Dreadhead · 15-09-2017 1:24pm

jcd5971 wrote: »

I'm not saying I'm right or even that I have a solution.

But your post kind of neatly gets to the point I'm driving at, people when they had a choice roundly rejected communities in favour of messages.

I will say, at the time we created that other "LFG" community, they were brand new and we absolutely light years behind where they are now (if ye can imagine that lol), so that did massively contribute to it's lack of use, peopel joined, went "this sucks" and never opened it again

But the people posting there aren't using communities anyway

They could have been

For example generic you were fairly rude yourself in the old chat to, myself and totz and basically anyone else that didn't want to leave it.

You yourself pointed out that a lot of that exchange came from us all being confused as to who were talking to. We all cleared that up and we moved on. I don't see the need to go over it. My tone was not the best. But that was not the platform for the discussion you were having.

I just worry that we are going to get a lot of drift after the shiny car smell wears off destiny 2

As I said, when that happens, if Communities still is not doing what Messages did and more (i.e. Notifications for all new posts) then, we go back to the 100 Strong Chats

Also, a lot of people (yourself included)| are having an awful lot to say about Communities but you haven't rolled your sleeves up and thrown a few posts up there (at least if you make the post, you get the reply notifications).

So ye would have actually set it up to be a self fulfilling failure.
You (and a bunch others) refusing to use it as you don't like it is in actuality driving the below...

and I don't see communities fostering the same "community" that messages did which is bloody ironic

If all the Clan 1 people who were using their silo'd Clan Chat had been using Communities for the last few days, maybe perceptions would be very different.

Yes, you still wouldn't get "new post" notifications I concede.
But the more contributors there are there, the more buzz there is.
By deciding to use Bungies Chat, and then throwing your toys our the pram by leaving, well, you are contributing to try hamstring the Communities and by association our effort to try accept it as our platform (in spite of it's current issues)

Yourself, Jonny and Sean (ImmaNoob) have been the 3 biggest detractors of Communities I can see (off the top of my head), yet 2 of the 3 of ye aren't even using it (scrolling back several days) and are then referencing the lack of craic there), at least ImmaNoob is actually trying to get on board with it (even talking to me about his feedback 1x1 and kind of arriving at an agree to disagree place)

There's far too much emotion being associated with a load of the responses in this thread this morning.
I'm not really taking your posts as personal attacks, I understand your frustrations.

It's a Game. It's been out 8 days. The Raid has been out 2 days. You can post a message on Communities. You can read other peoples responses on PSN or via App. No one is saying you cannot continue to use Boards.ie as we always have.

jcd5971 · 15-09-2017 1:24pm

Guys let's park the kick people from clan thing. Nobody said to do it and its the polar opposite of what I'd personnaly want.

And to be fair to him johnny never said that he was driving at people should be using boards, let's argue that if we have to and not what he might of meant as that's not fair.

Look my post as done what I wanted and that's to open a discussion

Kimbot · 15-09-2017 1:26pm

ibFoxer wrote: »

As far as i can recall, within the group that i play with, 90% of activities were arranged outside of boards, via either XBL, or the WhatsApp group. Now that group has expanded recently with D2 but i imagine the same will continue going forward because it is much easier to check your phone than an online forum.

I can accept that, all I am saying is the forum is here to use so it should be used until a better solution can be found to sort the issues out. A simple shortcut on your desktop to the destiny forum is just one click, exactly like opening an app.

Riesen_Meal · 15-09-2017 1:38pm

Look lads and lassies, I hope all our loot collecting and friendships we have made clan wise stays as is....

I hope that the new guys don't get frightened away with the chat we have had today, it's great getting this all out in the open but we weren't stopping anyone from playing or who they prefer to play with etc...

As GD says, things may die down again now when the "new and shinyness" of the game wears off but as it stands, in order to manage the madness the community page is the way for now.....

I hope Bungie don't leave clans "as is" now for the rest of the duration of D2, if they are looking for suggestions on improvement the first thing I would suggest is to ally the clans together and there hopefully we can all be involved...

As I said previous and to a few lads the other day, the number after your clan name should have no bearing, sure by the time Destiny 3 is out we could have 10 clans under the board's banner, and I would want anyone in Clan 10 feeling just as included as someone from Clan 1 or 2...

Generic Dreadhead · 15-09-2017 1:43pm

How many Clans till we can have a pure blooded "Cork Only" rule to apply to one of them? :thinking:

SolvableKnave · 15-09-2017 1:45pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

How many Clans till we can have a pure blooded "Cork Only" rule to apply to one of them? :thinking:

If the rest of Cork is anything like you for time keeping and smoke breaks, there'd be fcuking nothing accomplished. :eek:

Playstation Clan clean up/migrations/management

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