Vuelta stage 20. Corvera → Alto de El Angliru - 119km

MPFGLB · 09-09-2017 10:57PM

dragratchet wrote: »

the pedal stroke doesnt appear to change in terms of speed despite a) the sudden change in gradient and b) the sudden acceleration. just doesnt look natural. there are a lot of suddens that dont add up...

Yes ...it does look strange now that I look at it again

rtmie · 10-09-2017 12:32AM

Poels has his ass way back on the saddle compared to the others. Would extra weight over back wheel give more traction?

gordongekko · 10-09-2017 08:40AM

rtmie wrote: »

Poels has his ass way back on the saddle compared to the others. Would extra weight over back wheel give more traction?

Marginal ass gains

Itziger · 10-09-2017 09:12AM

robyntmorton wrote: »

^ Oh to have a button like that... I'm saying no more.

FYP

Encrypted Pigeon · 10-09-2017 09:54AM

Do they still not x-ray the bikes?

ThisRegard · 10-09-2017 09:56AM

They do. But (I'm not suggesting this is the case here) there was some recent story claiming it wasn't that effective and can be got around.

funnights74 · 10-09-2017 10:37AM

I doubt if anyone was mechanically doping yesterday, God most guys were barely moving. Contadors time for the final climb was way off the record.

Daroxtar · 10-09-2017 10:38AM

Or the camera angle makes it look like he's covered much more ground than he actually has and he drops the gear from 32 to 28 whilst maintaining the same cadence....

Doc07 · 10-09-2017 10:50AM

Sky looked invincible alright but for a bit of perspective;
1: Poels sustained that crazy spinning for all of 5 seconds.
2: they 'only' beat Kruijswijk , Nibili and Nibil's domestiques by 30 secs on a 13km climb.

gordongekko · 10-09-2017 01:17PM

Doc07 wrote: »

Sky looked invincible alright but for a bit of perspective;
1: Poels sustained that crazy spinning for all of 5 seconds.
2: they 'only' beat Kruijswijk , Nibili and Nibil's domestiques by 30 secs on a 13km climb.

Sure what does that mean?? Do we actually need to see them on motorbikes lapping everyone else before we put the question out there? All people have said is it looks odd

MPFGLB · 10-09-2017 01:41PM

I dont understand how SKY doms are all so good all the time

Moscon was one of the top up Angliru and that was after bossing the steep stuff in the 1st week
Puccio ...I mean he not even a climber ...was riding GC riders off the wheel
Nieve was better than Froome on some climbs
Poels was better than Froome on the hardest stuff like Angliru & Sierra Nevada
Rosa rode Angliru better than favourite climbers

It must be soul destroying for the rest
Some really good climbers/riders dropped by SKY Doms

Doc07 · 10-09-2017 01:41PM

gordongekko wrote: »

Sure what does that mean?? Do we actually need to see them on motorbikes lapping everyone else before we put the question out there? All people have said is it looks odd

It means that what happened yesterday wasn't that incredible even if it looked odd, the high cadence was performed on one corner for about 40-50m with a tailwind.
Don't worry you won't find me defending sky from doping allegations, a quick search of my posts will reassure anyone on that.

pelevin · 10-09-2017 02:08PM

Doc07 wrote: »

Sky looked invincible alright but for a bit of perspective;
1: Poels sustained that crazy spinning for all of 5 seconds.
2: they 'only' beat Kruijswijk , Nibili and Nibil's domestiques by 30 secs on a 13km climb.

Poels 'sustaining that kind of riding for all of 5 seconds' - I think you're confusing the fact that the clip is only about 5 seconds. In that clip he appears totally without stress in zooming up the very steep corner near the top of a brutal climb. If the clip were longer we would continue to see him ride in what appears a totally unstressed manner till the end of the stage. He looks like he's on a gentle training ride rather than near the top of a an almost mythically murderous climb. Persumably if Froome had decided to accelerate earlier Poels could have gone then no problem. Gravity, fatigue don't appear to be influencing him at all, he's just riding at his ease with everyone else giving everything behind. Good domestique to have.

Daroxtar · 10-09-2017 02:18PM

Sad news from Spain, a spectator was killed whilst descending the Angliru yesterday
http://www.elespanol.com/deportes/ciclismo/20170909/245475960_0.html

Brian? · 10-09-2017 02:28PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

I dont understand how SKY doms are all so good all the time

Moscon was one of the top up Angliru and that was after bossing the steep stuff in the 1st week
Puccio ...I mean he not even a climber ...was riding GC riders off the wheel
Nieve was better than Froome on some climbs
Poels was better than Froome on the hardest stuff like Angliru & Sierra Nevada
Rosa rode Angliru better than favourite climbers

It must be soul destroying for the rest
Some really good climbers/riders dropped by SKY Doms

The Doms train to peak at different times in a 3 week tour. Doesn't matter if they lose 20 minutes on a flat stage. GC contenders have to ride close to the front for 3 weeks. Moscon can destroy some GC riders, drop off, lose 10 minute and relax. The GC don't drop off, they are on the limit every mountain stage and have to stay close to the front on every flat stage to avoid splits.

For all of Froome's "dominance", he hasn't won the Vuelta by all that much time. He's measured his efforts better than everyone.

Brian? · 10-09-2017 02:32PM

pelevin wrote: »

Poels 'sustaining that kind of riding for all of 5 seconds' - I think you're confusing the fact that the clip is only about 5 seconds. In that clip he appears totally without stress in zooming up the very steep corner near the top of a brutal climb. If the clip were longer we would continue to see him ride in what appears a totally unstressed manner till the end of the stage. He looks like he's on a gentle training ride rather than near the top of a an almost mythically murderous climb. Persumably if Froome had decided to accelerate earlier Poels could have gone then no problem. Gravity, fatigue don't appear to be influencing him at all, he's just riding at his ease with everyone else giving everything behind. Good domestique to have.

Poels didn't ride the Tour and finished 10 minutes behind Froome on GC. That's not exactly phenomenal. He was great yesterday, but he'd probably trained to peak in the last week to protect Froome.

I'm no fan of Sky, but having watched cycling for the last 35 years, I don't find their performances unbelievable in any way. Bjarne Riis winning the Tour, that was unbelievable.

neris · 10-09-2017 02:36PM

Daroxtar wrote: »

Sad news from Spain, a spectator was killed whilst descending the Angliru yesterday
http://www.elespanol.com/deportes/ciclismo/20170909/245475960_0.html

The cycling podcast last night said there was a bad accident on the way up a few hours before the race got there aswell and they had to get am air ambulance in.

pelevin · 10-09-2017 02:50PM

Brian? wrote: »

Poels didn't ride the Tour and finished 10 minutes behind Froome on GC. That's not exactly phenomenal. He was great yesterday, but he'd probably trained to peak in the last week to protect Froome.

I'm no fan of Sky, but having watched cycling for the last 35 years, I don't find their performances unbelievable in any way. Bjarne Riis winning the Tour, that was unbelievable.

Landa rode the Giro in which he was very active. Riders who also rode it like Quintana & Pinot were clearly shattered in the Tour. Landa appeared by total contrast to have no fatigue issues at all, & if on a free rein could perhaps have won the race. Do you find that unbelievable in any way? After the Tour Landa still didn't need to stop and rode on winning another stage race afterwards.

I'm not saying that has to mean doping, but in terms of contrast, I'd say the obvious difference in feeling fatigue between the likes of Quintana and Landa was staggering. I'd struggle to think of anything more noteworthy in terms of being 'unbelievable' that I've seen in the last few years.

Also to add, Poels hasn't finished 10 minutes behind Froome. He's less than 7 minutes behind. And most of the other riders high up on gc didn't ride the Tour either.

MPFGLB · 10-09-2017 03:13PM

All the riders high up on GC didnt ride the Tour except Froome & Contador

My point about SKY doms is the consistency

Pellizoti had a great ride for Nibali yesterday but on so many days he was no where

Orica riders MIA as well as Quickstep, Astana, , Movistar, etc ...really good riders ...SKY are so on point it is almost mechanical (no pun intended)...

Its 14 riders left on a mountain and 7 are SKY ....
And this at Tour too.....
Sure SKY have good riders but so have the teams listed
And if it was once every so often at SKY then laws of probability ok
But its all the time...
Does Brailsford hypnotise them ??

You have to ask yourself how do they do it ....

Darkglasses · 10-09-2017 03:31PM

Watching the replay of this stage now. I'm really tired of being scolded by Kirby for stepping out too far on the road when I'm sitting at home on my couch

pelevin · 10-09-2017 03:47PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

My point about SKY doms is the consistency

Its 14 riders left on a mountain and 7 are SKY ....
And this at Tour too.....
Sure SKY have good riders but so have the teams listed
And if it was once every so often at SKY then laws of probability ok
But its all the time...
Does Brailsford hypnotise them ??

You have to ask yourself how do they do it ....

Sky don't do bad days. But if they did, they'd probably be the best bad days in the world.

gordongekko · 10-09-2017 03:54PM

Brian? wrote: »

The Doms train to peak at different times in a 3 week tour. Doesn't matter if they lose 20 minutes on a flat stage. GC contenders have to ride close to the front for 3 weeks. Moscon can destroy some GC riders, drop off, lose 10 minute and relax. The GC don't drop off, they are on the limit every mountain stage and have to stay close to the front on every flat stage to avoid splits.

But sure all team do this as well. But no other team had 6 lads out of the last 11 on the hardest mountain on the second last day of a grand tour. They are some doms to have.

elchupanebrey · 10-09-2017 06:01PM

Did anyone elses stage replay on the Player seem to end about 1km from the finish. Bit s×××. The new player and app are brutal to be fair!!

Brian? · 10-09-2017 08:49PM

gordongekko wrote: »

But sure all team do this as well. But no other team had 6 lads out of the last 11 on the hardest mountain on the second last day of a grand tour. They are some doms to have.

The pay the best. They train the smartest. It's simple but not easy. They invest a huge amount and we're seeing the returns.

It's exceptional, not unbelievable.

Brian? · 10-09-2017 08:52PM

pelevin wrote: »

Landa rode the Giro in which he was very active. Riders who also rode it like Quintana & Pinot were clearly shattered in the Tour. Landa appeared by total contrast to have no fatigue issues at all, & if on a free rein could perhaps have won the race. Do you find that unbelievable in any way? After the Tour Landa still didn't need to stop and rode on winning another stage race afterwards.

I'm not saying that has to mean doping, but in terms of contrast, I'd say the obvious difference in feeling fatigue between the likes of Quintana and Landa was staggering. I'd struggle to think of anything more noteworthy in terms of being 'unbelievable' that I've seen in the last few years.

Also to add, Poels hasn't finished 10 minutes behind Froome. He's less than 7 minutes behind. And most of the other riders high up on gc didn't ride the Tour either.

The only rider to have exceptional rides in 2 tours this year is Froome.

I'm not going to drag this out too much. What Sky are doing is exceptional. What Riis and Armstrong did was unbelievable.

Unless they sign the next Froome, Sky dominance will be over soon enough. He's 32.

gordongekko · 10-09-2017 09:30PM

Brian? wrote: »

The pay the best. They train the smartest. It's simple but not easy. They invest a huge amount and we're seeing the returns.

It's exceptional, not unbelievable.

Sure nobody trains smart, nobody looks at what sky do and copies them, nobody leaves sky and passes the knowledge onto the new team

Daroxtar · 10-09-2017 09:36PM

Brian? wrote: »

The only rider to have exceptional rides in 2 tours this year is Froome.

I'm not going to drag this out too much. What Sky are doing is exceptional. What Riis and Armstrong did was unbelievable.

Unless they sign the next Froome, Sky dominance will be over soon enough. He's 32.

Really looking forward to next year, hopefully Landa has the backing of a good squad and delivers with Movistar. Likewise Dumoulin, I'd love to see him head to head with Froome. Lots of other young riders with potential getting stronger... Like you said, unless they sign up the next Froome they're not going to stay as dominant for much longer, though they might already have a replacement in Poels

pelevin · 10-09-2017 09:38PM

Brian? wrote: »

The only rider to have exceptional rides in 2 tours this year is Froome.

I'm not going to drag this out too much. What Sky are doing is exceptional. What Riis and Armstrong did was unbelievable.

Unless they sign the next Froome, Sky dominance will be over soon enough. He's 32.

If you just decide not to engage regarding Landa's exceptional performances, well don't pretend there's a serious looking at facts going on. Landa was exceptional without any doubt. And to add, there was a hell of alot more dodgy practices going on than Riis & Armstrong. You seem to only consider the most screamingly outrageous as worth bothering with.

Imo injecting corticosteroids into their star rider before grand tours is genuinely not ok behaviour. It's taking known doping products, and then we have the manager of the team who had gained a huge reputation as a kind of nerdy obsessive genius finding gains from the oddest little things like pillow cases . . . well this obsessive then claims to not have had any idea these substances which were banned without a TUE had a history of use in doping in cycling. Just totally laughable imo. Which is it - was he an obsessive or a little boy lost bizarrely ignorant of such things? His credibility is shot & is the manager of Sky.

StevieGriff · 10-09-2017 09:46PM

Brian? wrote: »

The only rider to have exceptional rides in 2 tours this year is Froome.

I'm not going to drag this out too much. What Sky are doing is exceptional. What Riis and Armstrong did was unbelievable.

Unless they sign the next Froome, Sky dominance will be over soon enough. He's 32.

They already have. Egan Bernal.

Brian? · 10-09-2017 09:49PM

pelevin wrote: »

If you just decide not to engage regarding Landa's exceptional performances, well don't pretend there's a serious looking at facts going on. Landa was exceptional without any doubt. And to add, there was a hell of alot more dodgy practices going on than Riis & Armstrong. You seem to only consider the most screamingly outrageous as worth bothering with.

Landa is was so exceptional he won neither Grand Tour he entered? Landa was equally impressive rising for Astana by the way, that's why I'm not really sure it's worth engaging on, but I will anyway.

Come on. He wasn't exceptional in the Giro. He was good in the Tour, but I don't believe for a minute he was stronger than Froome. That completely subjective though.

Vuelta stage 20. Corvera → Alto de El Angliru - 119km

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