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New city for the midlands?

  • 20-07-2017 3:47pm
    #1
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ministers-discuss-creation-of-new-city-to-stop-choking-of-dublin-1.3160483

    Ministers have discussed the possibility of creating a new city in the midlands or northwest to ensure that population growth does not choke Dublin.
    During Wednesday’s special Cabinet meeting in Co Kildare there was also discussion of a potential post-Brexit scenario in which Belfast rather than Cork was the second city in a united Ireland.

    :eek::eek::eek: This is just a mental suggestion. Some of the idea's that came out of this meeting seem plane mental. Is there any merit to this suggestion?


Comments

  • #2
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Well it's only got merit if someone else is footing the bill - remember when the Chinese (grand lads) were linked with something similar about 4/5 years ago?

    Certainly a good big centre in the midlands wouldn't be a bad idea - Ireland's Birmingham or Chicago :)


  • #3
    Avada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭Avada


    We don't need a new city. We need proper transport infrastructure and high rise development for Dublin.

    ETA: We also need to focus on job creation and proper planning for Cork, Limerick and Galway to push soms of the population increase there.


  • #4
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Ministers have discussed the possibility of creating a new city in the midlands or northwest to ensure that population growth does not choke Dublin.
    During Wednesday’s special Cabinet meeting in Co Kildare there was also discussion of a potential post-Brexit scenario in which Belfast rather than Cork was the second city in a united Ireland.

    It's not population growth that is going to choke Dublin, it's lack of investment in transport infrastructure. Utterly bizarre suggestion, the kind of suggestion that you'd get from a couple of auld lads having a bunch of pints in a bar someplace.

    Dublin is a small city, one which does have problems, but those problems are due to a lack of investment. Those problems can solved by, surprise, investment.


  • #5
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Avada wrote: »
    We don't need a new city. We need proper transport infrastructure and high rise development for Dublin.

    ETA: We also need to focus on job creation and proper planning for Cork, Limerick and Galway to push soms of the population increase there.

    Well we wouldn't allow Waterford any of that sort of thing eh?


  • #6
    Avada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭Avada


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Well we wouldn't allow Waterford any of that sort of thing eh?

    Feck Waterford :D

    We need to learn to walk before we can run


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  • #7
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I laughed when I heard that the proposal and the more I think about it, the more off the wall it is!!!


  • #8
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Let's try to envision what this new city would look like ... tons of roads, **** architecture, low density ...

    Where have we seen that before?! Pathetic


  • #9
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I think there is a political agenda to try and halt what Dublin needs. As Ifit gets it, it will be like a run away snowball. Massively increasing its dominance even from this current position ...


  • #10
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Brainstorming sessions should never be published. The idea is to get crazy ideas and then see where they cam bring you.

    What starts as an off the wall idea can lead to something brilliant - I have experience of such.

    New city? Maybe the odlum lands between rathcoole and Kill. Hundreds of acres, easy to spur off train line, access to M7, easy to link to M4.


  • #11
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,848 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    The only new city getting built should be high rise Dublin.


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  • #12
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Renua just posted up perhaps they should invest in existing cities rather than hypothetical pipe dreams ones. Fair play to them. These idiots in all levels of government shouldn't be running a corner shop!


  • #13
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Surprised this idea hasn't come up before.
    Even did a quick picture for it on another thread a while ago under infrastructure projects.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057740128

    geo-centric-eco-city.png

    Carbon neutral, digitally automated, hyperlooped, plus new jobs for the builders, well everyone really.
    Couple of possible spots to stick it in, the Chinese build these sorts of things in a few weeks/months.


  • #14
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Kenneth Chilly Campus wrote: »
    the Chinese build these sorts of things in a few weeks/months.

    Nope - they take years and even then not always successful.

    A new city is planned for about 100km outside Beijing but it will cost $600bn and will take at least 20 years to construct.

    Forest city in Malaysia is an example currently being built - they are building a city of 700,000 people - almost 300,000 homes and the construction time is 30 years.

    Smaller cities for 50,000 or so, happen more often and are completed in 5-7 years.

    Odlum City, Co. Dublin :)

    More seriously, two of Dublin's major issues are the mountains and the sea - which prevents eastern development and southern development. Hence high rise in areas such as cherrywood, around naas road, docks and glass bottle factory must be allowed.


  • #15
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Sweet f************ Jesus, a city in the northwest.... the part of Ireland with the worst transport links and sh_ttiest climate.

    We have to stop electing morons in this country. We don't have time for this pig ignorance when Dublin needs a metro system, high rise apartment blocks and a proper centralised planning authority, and our other cities need some serious growth plans outlined.

    The way these gee balls talk about Dublin being "choked" or too big you'd think they were talking about bloody Tokyo or Mexico City.

    DUBLIN IS TINY - ITS CHOKED BECAUSE THE TRANSPORT AND PLANNING ARE SH*T.

    NONE of these issues will be solved by some retarded windswept new town in the most remote corner of Ireland.

    ITS REMOTE FOR A REASON

    Beyond belief our govt are still discussing this bolloxology after all these years. Unfathomable that it hasn't learned how to deal with urban growth.

    WE CAN'T AFFORD THESE MORONS ANY MORE FOLKS

    :mad::mad::mad:


  • #16
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,385 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    This is the kind of rubbish you get when elect the likes of Boxer Moran and the Healy Raes to Parliament. Dublin and greater Leinster area are totally underdeveloped in terms of infrastructure as it is. As are all the other existing large towns and cities. Really infuriating when you reads this stuff, it just means more delays and heal dragging on stuff we need yesterday like a Dublin Metro, Outer Orbital route, M20 etc etc.


  • #17
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    The irony that the party that proposed this no longer exist!

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/irishelectionliterature.com/2011/11/29/from-2006-a-new-heart-for-dublin-progressive-democrat-proposals-for-a-new-high-rise-quarter-where-dublin-port-was-with-great-pics/amp/


  • #18
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Excellent post dlr. all of these morons are the problem and not the solution. Post your post under comments on the Renua page and it's article. This needs to be broadcast far wider than a few of us on boards. People need to understand that's it's elected officials that are the problem!!! Can't wait for the councillors and politicians to come knocking!!!


  • #19
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    I think one of the proposals is great. Definitely relegate Cork down to city #3.
    I can hear the whinging noises already in a funny almost foreign sounding dialect.
    Time for the Republic of Cork to secede.


  • #20
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    A United ireiand. another pipe dream. If you thought the economic collapse was bad. I think I read the north requires ten billion sterling a year to keep it going!!!

    Anyone fancy terrorism down here, which could be a likely outcome if it looked like it could become a reality?


  • #21
    joejotheeskimo
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭joejotheeskimo


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    I think one of the proposals is great. Definitely relegate Cork down to city #3.
    I can hear the whinging noises already in a funny almost foreign sounding dialect.
    Time for the Republic of Cork to secede.

    I don't think you've thought that one out very well! A united Ireland will have minimal impact on the status of Cork. However, it will result in a much weaker Dublin with only 20% of the population. :D

    Looking at the situation through your butthurt tinted glasses. ;)


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  • #22
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,263 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Let's try to envision what this new city would look like ... tons of roads, **** architecture, low density ...

    Where have we seen that before?! Pathetic

    Architecture... Nobody said this was going going be anything fancy.
    CeilingFly wrote: »
    Brainstorming sessions should never be published. The idea is to get crazy ideas and then see where they cam bring you.

    What starts as an off the wall idea can lead to something brilliant - I have experience of such.

    New city? Maybe the odlum lands between rathcoole and Kill. Hundreds of acres, easy to spur off train line, access to M7, easy to link to M4.

    That could be a runner if Dart Underground had been built but there are huge tracts of zoned lands at Clonburris and Adamstown which would come into play first. The train stations are there already, Kishogue (Clonburris) must be 10 years built and remains unopened, until there's a high frequency service (Dart Underground) it's pointless opening it.


  • #23
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    joejotheeskimo wrote: »
    I don't think you've thought that one out very well! A united Ireland will have minimal impact on the status of Cork. However, it will result in a much weaker Dublin with only 20% of the population. :D

    Looking at the situation through your butthurt tinted glasses. ;)

    You signed up with a new account just to write this pointless sh*t?


  • #24
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    Nope - they take years and even then not always successful. A new city is planned for about 100km outside Beijing but it will cost $600bn and will take at least 20 years to construct.

    Forest city in Malaysia is an example currently being built - they are building a city of 700,000 people - almost 300,000 homes and the construction time is 30 years. Smaller cities for 50,000 or so, happen more often and are completed in 5-7 years. Odlum City, Co. Dublin :)

    More seriously, two of Dublin's major issues are the mountains and the sea - which prevents eastern development and southern development. Hence high rise in areas such as cherrywood, around naas road, docks and glass bottle factory must be allowed.

    Think that particular new city is more of an annex to Beijing's 20m+, and thus planned to be triple the size of NY. They have other 'green' city plans that are much more compact/smaller designed for <100k. They also recently built a skyscraper in just 19 days using modular systems. Last year, Shenzhen city built more skyscrapers than entire US & Australia combined.

    Agree, Dublin is restricted as you stated by it's natural environment and also the viking era town planners, so it can't go up (vastly) it will only continue with a slow awkward sprawl.

    A new city blueprint on a blank page may be easier that building in a highly congested location. There would be plenty of costs and certainly inconvenience, but maybe less elsewhere.

    Not nearly as challenging as the likes of HS2 in the UK, but just a cutting edge urban plan for 70,000 (initially) within 50sq miles located e.g. at the center point of Granard, Castlepollard, Virginia, as good a place as any. The slight NE weighing is relative to population density.

    Screen_Shot_2017-07-20_at_23.24.53.png


  • #25
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,113 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    With a UI, doubtful Dublin would be the political capital.


  • #26
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,240 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Kenneth Chilly Campus wrote: »
    Screen_Shot_2017-07-20_at_23.24.53.png

    Contrived nonsense, ignoring existing development and communications. Your suggested location would mean travelling to Dublin to get to most other locations.

    A new city should:
    * Leverage existing socio-economic and transport infrastructure, i.e. use existing town(s) as cores and use existing road and rail routes.
    * Connect to several other large centres.
    * Be in a build-able location - no bogs, mountains, drumlins or flood plains.

    This rules out a location in the northwest, and makes somewhere like Port Laoise-Portarlington (any further east is potentially too close to Dublin) or Shannon-Limerick-Tipperary-Cahir (connects to everywhere) suitable.

    422914.png

    Twitter discussion: https://twitter.com/DeirdreNiF/status/887967731487838210


  • #27
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Victor wrote: »
    makes somewhere like Port Laoise-Portarlington (any further east is potentially too close to Dublin) or Shannon-Limerick-Tipperary-Cahir (connects to everywhere) suitable.

    The longitude is about right of Port-Laoise, but those locations ignore the population density and geographical centre of the island. If (existing) transport and settlement was important Mullingar could be a better spot. But would it not be cheaper and faster to acquire very low density land and create, than demolish slightly urban areas to re-create.

    popden.jpg


  • #28
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,240 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    One thing that Ronan Lyons pointed out is that the reasons Dublin is so much bigger than other cities is down to partition - Belfast would have been the second city.
    Kenneth Chilly Campus wrote: »
    The longitude is about right of Port-Laoise, but those locations ignore the population density and geographical centre of the island. If (existing) transport and settlement was important Mullingar could be a better spot. But would it not be cheaper and faster to acquire very low density land and create, than demolish slightly urban areas to re-create.
    I wouldn't demolish anything (or very little) - plenty of space to build around.

    You will need somewhere for the construction workers to live.

    You need existing hubs, at whatever level, to provide cores for new communities. As we've learned, still people in green fields with no services results in ghettos.


  • #29
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    I'm surprised people are taking this proposal as seriously as they are.

    The cabinet discussed this to placate the Independent Alliance whose support they rely on to stay in Government. Kevin Boxer Moran, who is Westmeath based, has been pushing this. It's not going to go anywhere. Expect to see extensive coverage in the local papers in the Midlands and a few initiatives to bring a bit of funding to the region. Then that will be that. There's a reason this story popped up on the first week of the Dail recess - i.e. guaranteed coverage.


  • #30
    ClovenHoof
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ClovenHoof


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    I'm surprised people are taking this proposal as seriously as they are.

    The cabinet discussed this to placate the Independent Alliance whose support they rely on to stay in Government. Kevin Boxer Moran, who is Westmeath based, has been pushing this. It's not going to go anywhere. Expect to see extensive coverage in the local papers in the Midlands and a few initiatives to bring a bit of funding to the region. Then that will be that. There's a reason this story popped up on the first week of the Dail recess - i.e. guaranteed coverage.

    Utter psychotic **** and so typically Oirish.

    Have they found a Catholic priest to mentor it yet?


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