Dáil proceedings

Fulmar · 25-10-2016 11:25pm #1

Does anyone else feel it is inappropriate that an elected representative of the people should bring what she stated were illegal substances into the Dáil. If those who make the laws flagrantly defy them why should ordinary people comply?

K-9 · 26-10-2016 12:42am

Depends on the context I suppose, did this happen recently?

emmet02 · 26-10-2016 8:37am

Though not au fait with the actual legislation, I don't believe that the substances are in fact illegal.

What is illegal is the use of them in a particular situation.

I think that the Dáil should be less about stunts and more about reasoned debate, but I don't believe that many TDs at all would hold a similar view.

Seth Brundle · 26-10-2016 8:55am

K-9 wrote: »

Depends on the context I suppose, did this happen recently?

Bríd Smith took out a packet of what she claimed were abortion pills in the Dáil yesterday. She said "You can get it here in the State, you can also get 14 years for procuring it, for taking it and for helping yourself to have an abortion at home. You could arrest me for having it and give me 14 years, but you aint going to do it because what's on your books and what's in your laws you know that if you dare to implement it you would bring hell-fire and brimstone down on top of this house and in wider society because we have moved on,"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/watch-td-brid-smith-produces-packet-of-abortion-pills-in-dail-761011.html

Godge · 26-10-2016 5:40pm

Opposition stunts are opposition stunts.

Didn't someone bring a packet of condoms into the Dail back in the day when they were banned? It is the fools taken in by such stunts and who believe that said politicians are "sticking it to the man" who we should feel sorry for.

26-10-2016 6:06pm

kbannon wrote: »

Bríd Smith took out a packet of what she claimed were abortion pills in the Dáil yesterday. She said "You can get it here in the State, you can also get 14 years for procuring it, for taking it and for helping yourself to have an abortion at home. You could arrest me for having it and give me 14 years, but you aint going to do it because what's on your books and what's in your laws you know that if you dare to implement it you would bring hell-fire and brimstone down on top of this house and in wider society because we have moved on,"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/watch-td-brid-smith-produces-packet-of-abortion-pills-in-dail-761011.html

Just another empty, attention seeking stunt, like the Repeal teeshirts.

Squatter · 26-10-2016 6:08pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just another empty, attention seeking stunt, like the Repeal teeshirts.............

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or Shaggy and Shaggable invading Shannon Airport.

K-9 · 26-10-2016 11:40pm

Fulmar wrote: »

Does anyone else feel it is inappropriate that an elected representative of the people should bring what she stated were illegal substances into the Dáil. If those who make the laws flagrantly defy them why should ordinary people comply?

Ok, I suppose her point was ordinary people aren't complying.

It's a bit like the contraceptive ban up to 1979, people could still get them if they knew the right doctor or chemist, in other words the ban was pointless.

27-10-2016 9:49am

Clare Daly using Dail privilege to criticise a Judge for issuing a bench warrant for her.

"When the judge heard that Ms Daly had left the court, he issued a bench warrant for her arrest with discretion.

Ms Daly told the Dáil that she was back in court today where she had to listen to the "same judge lecturing me about disrespecting his court, not giving me an opportunity to say anything about his irrational decisions but at the same time carrying on."

During tonight's Private Members' debate on the establishment of a judicial appointments commission, the deputy questioned the actions of the judge in Naas and said the judiciary is an area that needs "radical reform"."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1026/827170-dail-daly/

McMurphy · 19-07-2017 3:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Clare Daly using Dail privilege to criticise a Judge for issuing a bench warrant for her.

"When the judge heard that Ms Daly had left the court, he issued a bench warrant for her arrest with discretion.

Ms Daly told the D that she was back in court today where she had to listen to the "same judge lecturing me about disrespecting his court, not giving me an opportunity to say anything about his irrational decisions but at the same time carrying on."

During tonight's Private Members' debate on the establishment of a judicial appointments commission, the deputy questioned the actions of the judge in Naas and said the judiciary is an area that needs "radical reform"."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1026/827170-dail-daly/

I was reading about how Daly got this conviction overturned on appeal.

Clare Daly, the Independents 4 Change TD, has won her appeal against a speeding conviction at Naas Circuirt Court just after 3pm this afternoon.

Deputy Daly, with an address in Elmwood Drive, Swords, was convicted by Judge Desmond Zaidan on October 26, 2016 after it was alleged that she was travelling at 59kph in a 50kph zone on January 1, 2016 at Ballymany, Newbridge.

Last October 26, Deputy Daly was fined €300 at Naas District Court for speeding despite an attempt to plead not guilty to the charge. And she was accused of “a total abuse of court process” in the course of the hearing by judge Desmond Zaidan.

A bench warrant with discretion was issued for the arrest of Ms Daly by Judge Zaidan after she did not appear before him the previous Thursday, October 13. She had been present in court that morning, but with her case at the end of the list, she left her solicitor Cairbre Finan with make her excuses and to plead guilty to the charge on her behalf.

When she appeared the following Thursday, October 26, he refused to allow her to charge her plea to not guilty, and fined her.

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/home/260404/td-clare-daly-wins-appeal-against-speeding-conviction.html#.WW4g_cYBggw.twitter

Everything surrounding this looked fishy anyway, from Daly claiming she never received the initial FPN, to her being the very last case to be called in court on the day of her appearance.

Good to see justice being done.

expectationlost · 19-07-2017 3:38pm

that are questions over gosafe not providin proof of contract, but this is just another driver getting off on a legal point.

McMurphy · 19-07-2017 3:57pm

expectationlost wrote: »

that are questions over gosafe no provided proof of contract, but this is just another driver getting off on a legal point.

Well seeing as she was originally denied a chance to challenge the case

A bench warrant with discretion was issued for the arrest of Ms Daly by Judge Zaidan after she did not appear before him the previous Thursday, October 13. She had been present in court that morning, but with her case at the end of the list, she left her solicitor Cairbre Finan with make her excuses and to plead guilty to the charge on her behalf.

When she appeared the following Thursday, October 26, he refused to allow her to charge her plea to not guilty, and fined her.

You could say she finally got a chance to challenge the alleged offence and was successful in doing so.

blanch152 · 19-07-2017 5:15pm

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I was reading about how Daly got this conviction overturned on appeal.

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/home/260404/td-clare-daly-wins-appeal-against-speeding-conviction.html#.WW4g_cYBggw.twitter

Everything surrounding this looked fishy anyway, from Daly claiming she never received the initial FPN, to her being the very last case to be called in court on the day of her appearance.

Good to see justice being done.

Another speeding driver gets away with it on a technicality. What a disgrace. I hope she introduces amending legislation next week to close this loophole.

McMurphy · 19-07-2017 5:40pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Another speeding driver gets away with it on a technicality. What a disgrace. I hope she introduces amending legislation next week to close this loophole.

Already was discussed.

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Well seeing as she was originally denied a chance to challenge the case

You could say she finally got a chance to challenge the alleged offence and was successful in doing so.

Dalys conviction overturned.
Murphy's case laughed out of court.

Some boards posters not gonna be happy about that.

For Reals · 19-07-2017 5:57pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Another speeding driver gets away with it on a technicality. What a disgrace. I hope she introduces amending legislation next week to close this loophole.

Maybe if seen to be another possible case of political policing, we'll just forget the whole thing ever happened? Leo can call her a blaggard while simultaneously saying 'nothing to see here'.

blanch152 · 20-07-2017 12:12am

For Reals wrote: »

Maybe if seen to be another possible case of political policing, we'll just forget the whole thing ever happened? Leo can call her a blaggard while simultaneously saying 'nothing to see here'.

She was caught speeding. There was a technicality through a loophole in the law that got her off. Disgraceful to see a politician availing of it.

Captain Obvious · 20-07-2017 10:59am

blanch152 wrote: »

She was caught speeding. There was a technicality through a loophole in the law that got her off. Disgraceful to see a politician availing of it.

Why? She's hardly a role model. Didn't she admit to knocking back a whiskey before driving before? And hasn't she been before the courts on other offences too? What makes this occasion any different?

Clare Daly aside, this technicality could have been addressed after it was discovered. Much like many other of its kind it hasn't been. No point blaming the accused for failures of the justice system. They still haven't addressed the issue of people being able to claim they never received their fixed charge penalty despite thousands of cases being dismissed over many years. That's all on them.

blanch152 · 20-07-2017 2:58pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Why? She's hardly a role model. Didn't she admit to knocking back a whiskey before driving before? And hasn't she been before the courts on other offences too? What makes this occasion any different?

Clare Daly aside, this technicality could have been addressed after it was discovered. Much like many other of its kind it hasn't been. No point blaming the accused for failures of the justice system. They still haven't addressed the issue of people being able to claim they never received their fixed charge penalty despite thousands of cases being dismissed over many years. That's all on them.

She is a politician with responsibility for fixing the system. A little bit of self-awareness and shame would surely have led her to campaign to fix the issue.

For Reals · 20-07-2017 6:44pm

blanch152 wrote: »

She is a politician with responsibility for fixing the system. A little bit of self-awareness and shame would surely have led her to campaign to fix the issue.

If the hot whiskey had put her over the legal alcohol limit, she said she would face the consequences.

I suppose a journalist happened to be driving behind her at the time...
She helped raise the penalty points issue. This was her thanks?

blanch152 · 21-07-2017 9:51am

For Reals wrote: »

I suppose a journalist happened to be driving behind her at the time...
She helped raise the penalty points issue. This was her thanks?

You are confusing the issue. I am not talking about her breathalyser issue, just her speeding offence. She didn't get off because she wasn't speeding, she got off on a technicality due to a loophole which could be closed by legislation. Shameful for a politician to behave in this way, of course her supporters and defenders will see it as sticking one to the man.

For Reals · 24-07-2017 3:47pm

blanch152 wrote: »

You are confusing the issue. I am not talking about her breathalyser issue, just her speeding offence. She didn't get off because she wasn't speeding, she got off on a technicality due to a loophole which could be closed by legislation. Shameful for a politician to behave in this way, of course her supporters and defenders will see it as sticking one to the man.

So everyone followed the rule of law, but she's shameful? What can she do? Say a decade of the rosary? Or is it the speeding alone? Speeding is bad.

blanch152 · 25-07-2017 11:00am

For Reals wrote: »

So everyone followed the rule of law, but she's shameful? What can she do? Say a decade of the rosary? Or is it the speeding alone? Speeding is bad.

We have a politician who was caught speeding, availed of a technical loophole in the law to escape conviction but who has the power to change the loophole and has done nothing.

If you can't see the problem with that, and the lack of personal responsibility, well there is nothing more to say.

For Reals · 25-07-2017 3:06pm

blanch152 wrote: »

We have a politician who was caught speeding, availed of a technical loophole in the law to escape conviction but who has the power to change the loophole and has done nothing.

If you can't see the problem with that, and the lack of personal responsibility, well there is nothing more to say.

You make it sound like the authorities said to her, 'You're not really guilty due to a loop hole. So you can either accept that or we'll fine you on the side, illegally, if you want?'

Sorry, I cannot believe nor take serious your contention that, the law refuse to convict her of speeding and she should kick up about it and have the law/loophole changed to ensure her conviction, in retrospect, should the law allow, if she is successful in having it closed, otherwise she's 'shameful'.
There's many a legal inappropriate thing done by politicians on a much grander scale some have no issue with, depending on whose team they play for. That's shameful.

The woman was caught speeding and the law decided to quash it. That's all the meat there is to it. If they shaved off penalty points now...

blanch152 · 25-07-2017 4:56pm

For Reals wrote: »

You make it sound like the authorities said to her, 'You're not really guilty due to a loop hole. So you can either accept that or we'll fine you on the side, illegally, if you want?'

Sorry, I cannot believe nor take serious your contention that, the law refuse to convict her of speeding and she should kick up about it and have the law/loophole changed to ensure her conviction, in retrospect, should the law allow, if she is successful in having it closed, otherwise she's 'shameful'.
There's many a legal inappropriate thing done by politicians on a much grander scale some have no issue with, depending on whose team they play for. That's shameful.

The woman was caught speeding and the law decided to quash it. That's all the meat there is to it. If they shaved off penalty points now...

It was worse than that. The woman was caught speeding and instead of putting her hands up and admitting to it, she weaseled her way out of it by producing a loophole in the law, a law she probably was involved in creating.

For Reals · 28-07-2017 1:28pm

Rather than start a new thread, I think this one suits. Please let me know otherwise:

Did anyone see the group who were chosen by the Ceann Comhairle to advise on possible changes to Dail speaking privilege?

the group with includes UCD politics professor David Farrell, barrister Conleth Bradley, journalist Conor Brady and former Fianna Fáil minister Mary Hanafin.

The Ceann Comhairle said "the four person group is a mixture of legal, media, academic and political viewpoints".
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2017/0727/893483-privilege/

Hanafin is a pretty funny one.

Dáil proceedings

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