Jobstown 6 Not Guilty

mynamejeff · 07-07-2017 01:50PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

The Majority of Under 30's feel this way this years and it is only going to get worse.

have go got a link for that ?

theres a poll about the commissioner alright but never seen one about rank and file saying the majority of under 30s have no confidence

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/latest-poll-shows-majority-have-no-confidence-in-garda-commissioner-noirin-osullivan-783287.html

the problem of political interference in policing is horrific in ireland and everyone gardai included have been crying out for an end to it for years ( except politicians that it )

McMurphy · 07-07-2017 04:58PM

The transcripts of the case have been put up on a website.

It really is disturbing the lies told by our supposedly apolitical police force. Some pretty high ranking members involved too.

Seen things that never happened. Heard things never said etc etc.

https://sites.google.com/view/jobstownnotguilty//trial

Like or loathe Murphy, but the conspiring that went on was disgusting, these men could have had their freedom taken from them.

BillyBobBS · 07-07-2017 09:44PM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

The transcripts of the case have been put up on a website.

It really is disturbing the lies told by our supposedly apolitical police force. Some pretty high ranking members involved too.

Seen things that never happened. Heard things never said etc etc.

https://sites.google.com/view/jobstownnotguilty//trial

Like or loathe Murphy, but the conspiring that went on was disgusting, these men could have had their freedom taken from them.

They should be investigated and fired if found guilty, with no pensions. We have to take a stand against crooks of that ilk.

Boggy Turf · 08-07-2017 09:04PM

BillyBobBS wrote: »

They should be investigated and fired if found guilty, with no pensions. We have to take a stand against crooks of that ilk.

That will never happen in the same way that nobody will be held accountable for the treatment of McCabe.

imme · 09-07-2017 08:23AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, let's crack a few heads open with batons, do you want tear gas and attack dogs too? Rubber bullets?

What about an apc, like in the movie Die Hard,
Have you been watching the movies a bit too much?

The Garda actions in this case are not the ones that will stick out in my mind in relation to this case.

It is the irresponsible actions of the 'protesters' at an awards ceremony.

Trying to use force to pressurise a politician. Did they think they had Nicolai Ceausescu in the car?

They had a mainstream politician whose politics they didn't agree with and wanted to push their agenda onto the media.

The gardai I will remember from the events are the ones who had to guide the minister through the crowd not protected themselves from whatever the 'protesters' chose to throw at them.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2017 09:11AM

imme wrote: »

Trying to use force to pressurise a politician. Did they think they had Nicolai Ceausescu in the car?

They had a mainstream politician whose politics they didn't agree with and wanted to push their agenda onto the media.

And you snipe at me for being ott?

Do you now think it had a parallel to the end of the Ceausescu's?

Most of the crowd including those who found themselves in the dock after two years of being pilloried by politicians and press were engaged in the type of political protest that has been engaged in by every section of society here.
Some engaged in violent thuggery and up to now have walked free because the focus was of course never on them, from those charged with enforcing the law.

Curly Judge · 09-07-2017 09:37AM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

The transcripts of the case have been put up on a website.

It really is disturbing the lies told by our supposedly apolitical police force. Some pretty high ranking members involved too.

Seen things that never happened. Heard things never said etc etc.

https://sites.google.com/view/jobstownnotguilty//trial

Like or loathe Murphy, but the conspiring that went on was disgusting, these men could have had their freedom taken from them.[/QUOTE]

Just like Joan..... eh?

McMurphy · 09-07-2017 10:56AM

Curly Judge wrote: »

Just like Joan..... eh?

No, not like Joan at all.

A judge (maybe even a curly one) and jury unanimously agreed that Joans freedom wasn't restricted at all.

It's a bitter one for some to swallow, no doubt about it, but as many of us suspected, the then governing bodies tried to blow smoke up our collective asses, and it backfired.

Sorry about that.

WinnyThePoo · 09-07-2017 11:01AM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

No, not like Joan at all.

A judge (maybe even a curly one) and jury unanimously agreed that Joans freedom wasn't restricted at all.

It's a bitter one for some to swallow, no doubt about it, but as many of us suspected, the then governing bodies tried to blow smoke up our collective asses, and it backfired.

Sorry about that.

I've just seen so much video showing that protest. Disgusting behaviour from the very far left protestors.

McMurphy · 09-07-2017 11:15AM

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I've just seen so much video showing that protest. Disgusting behaviour from the very far left protestors.

Isn't it mad though when you think of it. You say yourself you've

seen so much video

of some folk partaking in

Disgusting behaviour

, yet we now must assume the guards didn't see these same videos.

That's the only rational explanation I can think of, for arresting people who didn't do a single thing wrong that day, and got hauled through the court's on trumped up spurious charges.

They misspent their precious time watching the wrong videos.

It's the only logical explanation WTP.

I'm convinced of it.

WinnyThePoo · 09-07-2017 11:57AM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Isn't it mad though when you think of it. You say yourself you've of some folk partaking in , yet we now must assume the guards didn't see these same videos.

That's the only rational explanation I can think of, for arresting people who didn't do a single thing wrong that day, and got hauled through the court's on trumped up spurious charges.

They misspent their precious time watching the wrong videos.

It's the only logical explanation WTP.

I'm convinced of it.

Act like Thugs. Expect to considered a thug.

McMurphy · 09-07-2017 12:15PM

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Act like Thugs. Expect to considered a thug.

Yet those acting like thugs weren't charged and brought to court.

High profile political opponents, who ultimately toppled the govt on their water charges campaign were brought to court, and charged with a very specific, and serious charge of falsely imprisoning the Tainaste of the country and her aide.

But of course that was just coincidental.

WinnyThePoo · 09-07-2017 12:59PM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Yet those acting like thugs weren't charged and brought to court.

High profile political opponents, who ultimately toppled the govt on their water charges campaign were brought to court, and charged with a very specific, and serious charge of falsely imprisoning the Tainaste of the country and her aide.

But of course that was just coincidental.

Eh Paul murphy didn't topple the water charges. In fact the right2water gtoup Threw aaa to the curb. I don't blame them, it was a good move.

joe swanson · 09-07-2017 01:11PM

Not surprised at the result. Those thugs , sorry I meant "peaceful protesters" have engaged in an absolutely disgusting social media movement in order to pressurise , abuse and shout down anyone that might have opposing views.

Posh boy Murphy was in a win win situation regardless. Martyrdom or not guilty. Both appealing to the agenda he has outlined to his uneducated followers.

Captain Obvious · 09-07-2017 01:15PM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

A judge (maybe even a curly one) and jury unanimously agreed that Joans freedom wasn't restricted at all.

That's just a straight up lie. A judge and jury did not agree that. A jury decided her freedom wasn't totally restricted to the extent of being falsely imprisoned by the people charged in one particular case.

09-07-2017 01:28PM

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Eh Paul murphy didn't topple the water charges. In fact the right2water gtoup Threw aaa to the curb. I don't blame them, it was a good move.

Water Charges and Irish Water are still with us.

McMurphy · 09-07-2017 02:03PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

That's just a straight up lie. A judge and jury did not agree that. A jury decided her freedom wasn't totally restricted to the extent of being falsely imprisoned by the people charged in one particular case.

I will remind you on what the judge instructed the jurors

Judge Greally wrote:

Outlining a number of points, Judge Greally told the jury that if they were not satisfied the women were totally restrained in the Avensis car in the churchyard, then “the prosecution case has fallen at the first hurdle”.

which shot the false imprisonment charge right out of the sky.

She then went on to say.

Judge Greally wrote:

In her initial charge, Judge Greally said the jury must consider whether Burton and O’Connell had a means of escape. She said two such possible means of escape had been raised at trial – that they get out of the car and leave Fortunestown Road on foot, or that the Jeep reverse as advised by the Garda Air Support Unit.

Today, the judge said a third means of escape was open to the jury to consider – whether the women could have “egressed down Fortunestown Road”. She said that means of escape involved “commotion and chaos” but it was open to the jury to decide if it was a reasonable option.

That's from the judge.

They had options to leave, yet didn't seem to want to do so. (said the garda pilot)

It's a sad day for the country, when a judge has to instruct a jury to keep in mind that their was "misstatements and contradictions" in the gaurds statements.

I recall lots of posters on this site had Murphy convicted from his arrest, some of them serving guards too.

That didn't come back and bite them on their holes, sure it didn't? :pac:

mynamejeff · 09-07-2017 05:03PM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I will remind you on what the judge instructed the jurors

which shot the false imprisonment charge right out of the sky.

She then went on to say.

That's from the judge.

They had options to leave, yet didn't seem to want to do so. (said the garda pilot)

I recall lots of posters on this site had Murphy convicted from his arrest, some of them serving guards too.

That didn't come back and bite them on their holes, sure it didn't? :pac:

you really think that footage that was posted on the facebook pages purporting to be from the garda chopper was genuine ?

fyi the garda chopper is operated by air corp personnel

RustyNut · 09-07-2017 05:45PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

fyi the garda chopper is operated by air corp personnel

Probably why the video wasn't covered up.

McMurphy · 09-07-2017 06:13PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

you really think that footage that was posted on the facebook pages purporting to be from the garda chopper was genuine ?

I never seen it on any Facebook page, I seen it on broadsheet are you suggesting it's fake? Lol. Thread has jumped the shark.

Earlier this week, a video clip was shown in the court of footage from the Garda helicopter on that day.

Yesterday, the Irish Examiner reported:

The trial was shown video footage from Garda Air Support at about 2.53pm that day during which a dispatcher could be heard saying the crowd was dispersing.

The dispatcher said they were making good progress and Ms Burton’s car should reach the Tallaght by-pass within 20-30 minutes. There’s no hassle really, said the dispatcher, adding that there had been a bit of pushing when the Garda Public Order Unit arrived.
The video footage, with a timestamp of 15.21, can be watched above.

Readers will note a Garda can be heard saying:

“It’s fairly dispersed. She’s making a good bit of progress. She’s only, only another 100 metres, not even 50 metres, from the Tallaght Bypass. There’s no pushing or shoving or anything. The Public Order Unit moved in there for a minute and there was a bit and they seem to have left them march ahead of their banner like.”

“The Jeep could have went backwards ages ago but [inaudible] did not want to do that. …There’s no hassle really.”

fyi the garda chopper is operated by air corp personnel

That would probably explain why the video wasn't destroyed.

flutered · 09-07-2017 06:23PM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

The transcripts of the case have been put up on a website.

It really is disturbing the lies told by our supposedly apolitical police force. Some pretty high ranking members involved too.

Seen things that never happened. Heard things never said etc etc.

https://sites.google.com/view/jobstownnotguilty//trial

Like or loathe Murphy, but the conspiring that went on was disgusting, these men could have had their freedom taken from them.

Like or loathe Murphy, but the conspiring that went on was disgusting, these men could have had their freedom taken from them,
which was the object of the exercise, but for the defence lawyers reminding the judge of her obligations, her origional directions to the jury would have stood

McMurphy · 09-07-2017 06:27PM

flutered wrote: »

Like or loathe Murphy, but the conspiring that went on was disgusting, these men could have had their freedom taken from them,
which was the object of the exercise, but for the defence lawyers reminding the judge of her obligations, her origional directions to the jury would have stood

The scheming and conniving from our Gardai is what has truly shocked me. Its getting hard to keep of their controversies these days, but I'm getting more and more convinced that they deem themselves to be above the law they are supposed to uphold.

If it was up to me they'd be restructured from the ground up, ala PSNI style. They are unfit for purpose IMO

mynamejeff · 09-07-2017 07:08PM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I never seen it on any Facebook page, I seen it on broadsheet are you suggesting it's fake? Lol. Thread has jumped the shark.

That would probably explain why the video wasn't destroyed.

Yes i am suggesting that the audio is fake because it is in fact fake.
I am referring the the one posted on social media sites like broadsheet.ie facebook twitter whatever ..... (broadsheet is not a reputable news source imo)

i have no idea what was shown in the court room or where it came from . Was it defense or prosecution who showed it ?

Also Fyi as far as i know he garda chopper is run by the air corps but there is a garda observer in the passenger seat .

so is that a pro or con for your argument that the video would have been destroyed if it culd have been ? lol take your pick of the facts why dont ya

Captain Obvious · 10-07-2017 07:47AM

mynamejeff wrote: »

lol take your pick of the facts why dont ya

That's the long and the short of it. The same posters who are looking for discrpencies in Garda testimony are happy to completely misrepresent everything and anything. It's why most people see them as having no moral high ground.

FrancieBrady · 10-07-2017 08:37AM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

That's the long and the short of it. The same posters who are looking for discrpencies in Garda testimony are happy to completely misrepresent everything and anything. It's why most people see them as having no moral high ground.

Nobody is 'looking' for discrepancies in Garda testimony, they were quite clearly there and exposed by the defence and alluded to by the judge.

LuckyLloyd · 10-07-2017 09:14AM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

That's the long and the short of it. The same posters who are looking for discrpencies in Garda testimony are happy to completely misrepresent everything and anything. It's why most people see them as having no moral high ground.

You don't have to "look" for discrepancies. They're now in the public domain. Malice or incompetence? I'll let you choose, but either way the implicaton is clear: the Gardai are not to be trusted.

Wheeliebin30 · 10-07-2017 09:15AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You don't have to "look" for discrepancies. They're now in the public domain. Malice or incompetence? I'll let you choose, but either way the implicaton is clear: the Gardai are not to be trusted.

All 20,000 gardai?

FrancieBrady · 10-07-2017 09:18AM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

All 20,000 gardai?

That is why we need a very close look at what went on here. If rank and file Garda can be manipulated to give false testimony then we have a massive problem.
Some of us cannot walk away from the implications here regardless of political support for any of the political parties involved.

seamus · 10-07-2017 09:26AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is why we need a very close look at what went on here. If rank and file Garda can be manipulated to give false testimony then we have a massive problem.
Some of us cannot walk away from the implications here regardless of political support for any of the political parties involved.

First you have to prove there was actually lying before you can look for manipulation.

Anyway, Occam's razor applies.

Chances are the Gardai involved had a chat afterwards over a couple of pints about what had happened and then the information in that chat flowed over and distorted the accounts that they gave in statements and to the court.

It's a well-known problem in police forces across the world and one that's obviously next to impossible to stamp out unless you ban police officers from talking to each other.

This is why a justice system needs to exist in the first place - to weigh up all evidence against one another - and our own one has been rightly moving to a place in recent years where a statement from a Garda is not considered rock-solid evidence.

Presuming influence from higher-up or even from politicians is making a lot of assumptions.
The Gardai on the ground that day would have enough animosity for those at the event to go ahead and create their own narrative without the need for manipulation or influence from above.

Cervantes2 · 10-07-2017 09:29AM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

All 20,000 gardai?

There are only 12850 Gardai.

Jobstown 6 Not Guilty

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