Jobstown 6 Not Guilty

Discodog · 01-07-2017 03:33PM

tayto lover wrote: »

We saw it with our own eyes on the t.v. Thuggery.

OK so what's your plan ? Ban jury trials as well as protests ? The jury reviewed all the evidence.

tayto lover · 01-07-2017 03:38PM

Discodog wrote: »

OK so what's your plan ? Ban jury trials as well as protests ? The jury reviewed all the evidence.

It turned many of us off the protests.
We had been on the marches from the start.
There was even an engagement against Joan Burton in the Marshes Shopping Centre in Dundalk where she was shouted at by protesters but nobody hemmed her in or blocked her path. I could put up with that but not the thuggery we saw in Jobstown. What did it gain for anyone except Paul Murphy and a few previously unknown councillors? The Water Charges were defeated by peaceful feet on the street and non-payment.

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2017 03:41PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I see. So you think what happened to her was wrong but it's ok because it's Joan Burton. Ok.

Could you stop emoting and read a few posts? I think what the thuggish element did was wrong. You have though a right to protest and many in this country have blocked traffic to make their point, from the elderly to farmers to middle class workers.
Joan sought immediately to capitalise politically on what was happening by blowing it out of proportion and the jury found that it wasn't as serious as was made out by FG, and the sensationalists we call independent journalists.

That is NOT saying that the thug elements were right because it was Joan Burton.

Discodog · 01-07-2017 03:54PM

tayto lover wrote: »

It turned many of us off the protests.
We had been on the marches from the start.
There was even an engagement against Joan Burton in the Marshes Shopping Centre in Dundalk where she was shouted at by protesters but nobody hemmed her in or blocked her path. I could put up with that but not the thuggery we saw in Jobstown. What did it gain for anyone except Paul Murphy and a few previously unknown councillors? The Water Charges were defeated by peaceful feet on the street and non-payment.

Protests get hijacked & exploited all the time. The point here is that Burton assisted in the prosecution of protesters & failed. The jury decided that a crime wasn't committed.

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 04:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Could you stop emoting and read a few posts? I think what the thuggish element did was wrong. You have though a right to protest and many in this country have blocked traffic to make their point, from the elderly to farmers to middle class workers.
Joan sought immediately to capitalise politically on what was happening by blowing it out of proportion and the jury found that it wasn't as serious as was made out by FG, and the sensationalists we call independent journalists.

That is NOT saying that the thug elements were right because it was Joan Burton.

Ok. Agreed on much of that (except the bit where I'm emoting obviously...).

How did she capitalise on it?

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 04:01PM

Discodog wrote: »

Protests get hijacked & exploited all the time. The point here is that Burton assisted in the prosecution of protesters & failed. The jury decided that a crime wasn't committed.

She was summoned as a witness. Being a law-abiding citizen of a democracy, she did the right thing and gave witness for the state in a court of law.

golfball37 · 01-07-2017 04:29PM

People disappointed with this verdict miss the point spectacularly imo. Of course there was thuggery on the day but the state should have pursued the thugs who committed crimes and not the political representatives present who had committed no prosecutable crime.
Having inspectors call to Murphy's door at dawn to arrest him was pathetic and spoke to me what I felt this was about.
Having Gardai stay on message in court despite it being untrue was also dispicable.
This is the reason the establishment don't call for the commissioners head despite disgraceful conduct under her watch, it's because the Gardai are a political police force for the traditional ruling class. It's a pity

suicide_circus · 01-07-2017 04:34PM

I'm not totally opposed to the idea that there was an underhanded political conspiracy to go after PM but it would have to have had the buy-in of several state agencies; Dept of Justice, DPP, gardai, the government of the day and if it wasn't for the jury, they would have got away with it. Seems like a bit of a stretch. Well actually I've no difficulty believing it of the gardai.

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2017 04:39PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Ok. Agreed on much of that (except the bit where I'm emoting obviously...).

How did she capitalise on it?

'Sought' to capitalise on it while the event was ongoing by instructing her aide to get on social media.
I think she ultimately it hurt her and Labour, badly.

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 04:44PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm not totally opposed to the idea that there was an underhanded political conspiracy to go after PM but it would have to have had the buy-in of several state agencies; Dept of Justice, DPP, gardai, the government of the day and if it wasn't for the jury, they would have got away with it. Seems like a bit of a stretch. Well actually I've no difficulty believing it of the gardai.

That's interesting. So you think that if what happened to Burton had happened to an ordinary woman, then the DPP would have dismissed the case? The Guards wouldn't have got involved? The DOJ would have ensured the case was ignored?

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 04:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Sought' to capitalise on it while the event was ongoing by instructing her aide to get on social media.
I think she ultimately it hurt her and Labour, badly.

Did her aide put out stuff on social media while they were in the car? How did that stuff seek to capitalise on Burton's experience?

suicide_circus · 01-07-2017 04:50PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's interesting. So you think that if what happened to Burton had happened to an ordinary woman, then the DPP would have dismissed the case? The Guards wouldn't have got involved? The DOJ would have ensured the case was ignored?

But they prosecuted people who broke no laws and there seems to have been video evidence to that effect. I'm not saying there was a conspiracy but I can see how one would come to that conclusion.

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 04:52PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

But they prosecuted people who broke no laws and there seems to have been video evidence to that effect. I'm not saying there was a conspiracy but I can see how one would come to that conclusion.

I don't think there was a conspiracy but the Guards didn't cover themselves in glory.

jackofalltrades · 01-07-2017 04:58PM

golfball37 wrote: »

People disappointed with this verdict miss the point spectacularly imo. Of course there was thuggery on the day but the state should have pursued the thugs who committed crimes and not the political representatives present who had committed no prosecutable crime.

Really, you honestly believe that?

golfball37 · 01-07-2017 05:02PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Really, you honestly believe that?

Of course - none of them threw a missile and the jury found them not guilty

gctest50 · 01-07-2017 05:04PM

tayto lover wrote: »

.......

The Water Charges were defeated by peaceful feet on the street and non-payment.

The supply of water still needs to be paid for though - it didn't magically go away

I'd imagine if they had time to be out protesting they won't be contributing much now

Screwed yourself over

.

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 05:06PM

golfball37 wrote: »

Of course - none of them threw a missile and the jury found them not guilty

Using a megaphone to ask a crowd of thugs if would they like to keep a person against their will is incitement. Murphy got away with it.

Discodog · 01-07-2017 05:07PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's interesting. So you think that if what happened to Burton had happened to an ordinary woman, then the DPP would have dismissed the case? The Guards wouldn't have got involved? The DOJ would have ensured the case was ignored?

There wouldn't of been the slightest chance of a prosecution.

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 05:09PM

Discodog wrote: »

There wouldn't of been the slightest chance of a prosecution.

Seriously?

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2017 05:09PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Did her aide put out stuff on social media while they were in the car? How did that stuff seek to capitalise on Burton's experience?

I have no idea if it was published on social media but she instructed her aide:

"What you should do now is go on social media and say it is just shameful, all the little kids there no one minding them they were just free to roam the streets".

Would that be what you would want to say if you were 'terrified and in fear for your life' ?

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 05:12PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have no idea if it was published on social media but she instructed her aide:

Would that be what you would want to say if you were 'terrified and in fear for your life' ?

Was the car being shaken and banged on at that time?

So how is that line, even it was put on social media, seeking to capitalise politically on what was happening?

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2017 05:15PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Was the car being shaken and banged on at that time?

So how is that line, even it was put on social media, seeking to capitalise politically on what was happening?

I fear you haven't read the transcripts very closely.

It was an attempt to portray the protestors as rabble and as 'dregs' - another word used in the car.
That was an ongoing effort during the whole WC campaign.

jackofalltrades · 01-07-2017 05:21PM

golfball37 wrote: »

Of course - none of them threw a missile and the jury found them not guilty

The jury found them not guilty of one specific charge.
Here's a picture of him and his co-defendants blocking her car, which is an offence.

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 05:25PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I fear you haven't read the transcripts very closely.

It was an attempt to portray the protestors as rabble and as 'dregs' - another word used in the car.
That was an ongoing effort during the whole WC campaign.

But how is that seeking to capitalise on what was happening to her?

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 05:26PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

The jury found them not guilty of one specific charge.
Here's a picture of him and his co-defendants blocking her car, which is an offence.

That was her opportunity to reverse.

01-07-2017 05:28PM

I see a massive crowd turned up at their victory parade today.

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2017 05:34PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

But how is that seeking to capitalise on what was happening to her?

Why post that comment?
Was that her key concern that day?

It was a cynical attempt (she has form here - 'expensive phones' comment) to portray the crowd in a certain way. In a derogatory way.

gctest50 · 01-07-2017 05:42PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why post that comment?
Was that her key concern that day?

It was a cynical attempt (she has form here - 'expensive phones' comment) to portray the crowd in a certain way. In a derogatory way.

Look at the photo above - yer man with his hand in the window trying to grope her or her assistant

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2017 05:44PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Look at the photo above - yer man with his hand in the window trying to grope her or her assistant

Yeh, terrified for their lives they opened the window for some fresh air.
That ban Garda looks fair stressed out too eh?

WinnyThePoo · 01-07-2017 05:47PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh, terrified for their lives they opened the window for some fresh air.
That ban Garda looks fair stressed out too eh?

Whats with the victim blaming?.

Jobstown 6 Not Guilty

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