Jobstown 6 Not Guilty

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2017 11:58AM

Bishopsback wrote: »

I'm sure!
The goal is to keep whinging. Left leaning govt doesent really work on its own, they would have to compromise their principles to govern anyway.
They know fine well that while the ideal is good, the practice is nigh on impossible.
But to keep a balance and center govt on a hard footing, you need the threat of these left whinging party's threatening to make breakthroughs and exposing the shady side of political dealings. They do much good work behind the scenes, but overall governing is not really their main concern.

You can characterise the opposition anywhere as 'whingers' if you really want to be simplistic.

01-07-2017 12:59PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Love or loath Joan Burton, trapping a woman in her car, preventing her from leaving the area, banging on and shaking the car, screaming abuse are not the acts of peaceful protesters.

I think part of the problem is that the DPP prosecuted those whom she deemed to be the 'ringleaders', and not those who were shown in documented evidence to have been engaged in criminal activities.

I didn't see Paul Murphy banging on Joan Burton's ministerial car, or shaking it; did you?

tayto lover · 01-07-2017 01:05PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I think part of the problem is that the DPP prosecuted those whom she deemed to be the 'ringleaders', and not those who were shown in documented evidence to have been engaged in criminal activities.

I didn't see Paul Murphy banging on Joan Burton's ministerial car, or shaking it; did you?

He would be just as guilty in my eyes if he urged protesters to do that.
Obviously there was no proof of that hence the acquittal.

twinytwo · 01-07-2017 01:13PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

The Birmingham 6 were found guilty.falsely imprisoned thanks to fabrication of evidence by authorities

The jobstown 6 weren't.

Why are they trying to compare themselves?

It's embarrassing.

FYP

twinytwo · 01-07-2017 01:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Most right minded people call that days actions for what they were. The actions of mindless thugs. How anyone can condone such behaviour in a civilised society beggars belief.
BTW, I agree with the verdict. The wrong charges were brought.

She was trapped in her car for a while.. so what?? Nothing ever changes in this country. Burton and the rest deserve a whole lot worse.

robbiezero · 01-07-2017 01:19PM

twinytwo wrote: »

She was trapped in her car for a while.. so what?? Nothing ever changes in this country. Burton and the rest deserve a whole lot worse.

Why?

suicide_circus · 01-07-2017 01:23PM

They were not found innocent, only "not guilty", their innocence was not established.

:pac:

suicide_circus · 01-07-2017 01:26PM

I understand that they had a significant amount of supporters at court every day of the trial. How were these people able to take so much time off work to attend court all those weeks?

AlekSmart · 01-07-2017 01:32PM

twinytwo wrote: »

She was trapped in her car for a while.. so what?? Nothing ever changes in this country. Burton and the rest deserve a whole lot worse.

I'm afraid you're not at all correct in this.

Ireland has changed totally,and is continuing to change.

Ireland today is unrecognisable from even the State in which I grew up during the 1960's and 70's.

It has developed in ways far beyond what we could have imagined as teenagers or even young adults,and done so without the requirement for major civil upheaveal or revolt.

I notice that "Revolt" is exactly what the "Solidarity" group are now calling for on the posters which have appeared around the place,as they seek to build upon the supposed "persecuted" status of those accquitted.

Could you define the term "Whole lot worse",and why exactly,Joan Burton would deserve it ?

suicide_circus · 01-07-2017 01:36PM

The important thing is water charges were done away with and Ireland will go without the pay by usage revenue stream every other civilised country has to invest in their water infrastructure. Truly a noble victory.

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 01:48PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

The important thing is water charges were done away with and Ireland will go without the pay by usage revenue stream every other civilised country has to invest in their water infrastructure. Truly a noble victory.

I think the word you're looking for is ignoble.

AlekSmart · 01-07-2017 01:54PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I think part of the problem is that the DPP prosecuted those whom she deemed to be the 'ringleaders', and not those who were shown in documented evidence to have been engaged in criminal activities.

I didn't see Paul Murphy banging on Joan Burton's ministerial car, or shaking it; did you?

Spot On.

The totality of the coverage of the An Cosán event,if one can devote almost 4 hours to review the clips,does indeed document the movements and activities of individuals who were present during the entire thing.

Deputy Murphy,perhaps unwittingly,has aligned himself with,and to a great extent is now controlled by,a group of highly organized and focused professional activists.

The main goal of these activists,with perhaps a smidgin of "Freedom Fighting" ethos added to give a little flavour,is to destabilize,and eventually destroy our current system of Governance.

Having achieved that goal,we remain somewhat unclear as to what system these folks will replace it with,but unless they have developed some means of altering basic Human Nature,it won't be all that different from what we have now.

All it will do is change the people at the top-table,and you can bet your sweet bippy that Deputy Murphy and his associates will have their legs well under it.

The lesson learned from this Trial is that we have a rather well developed little country,with the checks and balances functioning as they should,even in the face of a Police Force,which,far from operating as some form of Politically Directed militia,demonstrated a total lack of professionalism,ability and leadership in how they responded to this.

Deploying a Public Order Unit in soft caps,just about says it all.:rolleyes:

It could be suggested,that if anybody falsely imprisoned Joan Burton and her P.A. that day,it was the Gardai themselves,by their unpreparedness and amaturish carry-on.

I can't wait to experience the day when Mick Barry,Paul Murphy or Ruth Coppinger accept their Seals of Office as Government Ministers,from An tUachtarain Mick Wallace in the Áras ....:D

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 01:57PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Spot On.

The totality of the coverage of the An Cosán event,if one can devote almost 4 hours to review the clips,does indeed document the movements and activities of individuals who were present during the entire thing.

Deputy Murphy,perhaps unwittingly,has aligned himself with,and to a great extent is now controlled by,a group of highly organized and focused professional activists.

The main goal of these activists,with perhaps a smidgin of "Freedom Fighting" ethos added to give a little flavour,is to destabilize,and eventually destroy our current system of Governance.

Having achieved that goal,we remain somewhat unclear as to what system these folks will replace it with,but unless they have developed some means of altering basic Human Nature,it won't be all that different from what we have now.

All it will do is change the people at the top-table,and you can bet your sweet bippy that Deputy Murphy and his associates will have their legs well under it.

The lesson learned from this Trial is that we have a rather well developed little country,with the checks and balances functioning as they should,even in the face of a Police Force,which,far from operating as some form of Politically Directed militia,demonstrated a total lack of professionalism,ability and leadership in how they responded to this.

Deploying a Public Order Unit in soft caps,just about says it all.:rolleyes:

It could be suggested,that if anybody falsely imprisoned Joan Burton and her P.A. that day,it was the Gardai themselves,by their unpreparedness and amaturish carry-on.

I can't wait to experience the day when Mick Barry,Paul Murphy or Ruth Coppinger accept their Seals of Office as Government Ministers,from An tUachtarain Mick Wallace in the Áras ....:D

I'll be there with my megaphone as Murphy is terrorised in his own car.

RobertKK · 01-07-2017 01:58PM

One can win a court case, it doesn't mean one has won over public minds on the case.

seligehgit · 01-07-2017 01:59PM

Yip at the end of the day the gardai failed to take control of a very unseemly situation on the day.Lessons to be learned.

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 02:00PM

seligehgit wrote: »

Yip at the end of the day the gardai failed to take control of a very unseemly situation on the day.Lessons to be learned.

Agreed. They need to be more aggressive with cowardly thugs.

AlekSmart · 01-07-2017 02:02PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

The important thing is water charges were done away with and Ireland will go without the pay by usage revenue stream every other civilised country has to invest in their water infrastructure. Truly a noble victory.

???....Steady on Boy.......To misquote a well known former activist...."They haven't gone away,y'know".

Water Charging,as established policy,has gone nowhere.

It is merely in abeyance,for the Irish Urbanistas.

I'd suggest that Solidarity will have even greater broad public support for their campaign on Refuse Charging,which is,and always has been,the more important issue surrounding dodgy and anti-social Governmental Practice relating to Public Services.

However,It will be interesting to see how much leeway,the Privatized Refuse Industry will be prepared to give to any organized campaign against their new revenue stream ?

Interesting times ahead ?

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2017 02:04PM

I said it earlier, a lot of people very hurt because this case didn't work out the way they wanted it to.

Maybe if Joan gets an entire Tubridy show to relive it all it might assuage the grief.

end of the road · 01-07-2017 02:07PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The law needs changing then.

This was thuggery pure and simple. They should be punished.

the law does not need changing in relation to this. the law is perfectly fine and there is and was nothing for these 6 to be punished for.

where we do need to insure a change in the law, is in relation to insuring political and show trials can no longer be brought. the 6 are not guilty, democracy subverting was stopped, and protest can continue

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 02:08PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said it earlier, a lot of people very hurt because this case didn't work out the way they wanted it to.

Maybe if Joan gets an entire Tubridy show to relive it all it might assuage the grief.

Maybe if a bunch of thugs hadn't terrified a woman in her car then all of this fuss would have been avoided.

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2017 02:10PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Maybe if a bunch of thugs hadn't terrified a woman in her car then all of this fuss would have been avoided.

Maybe if they had simply reversed a chance to post on social media would have gone a begging. That would be a tragedy.

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 02:11PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Maybe if they had simply reversed a chance to post on social media would have gone a begging. That would be a tragedy.

Yeah. Obviously it was Burton's own fault and she deliberately orchestrated everything. No doubt you would have no problem if the same thing happened to your mother. If it was my mother I would have cleared the way with a shotgun.

AlekSmart · 01-07-2017 02:16PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said it earlier, a lot of people very hurt because this case didn't work out the way they wanted it to.

Maybe if Joan gets an entire Tubridy show to relive it all it might assuage the grief.

Why should she ?

She appeared as a witness,as did her P.A.

Those who see it as Joan Burton vs the People,could not be more incorrect.

The decision to prosecute,the handling of the case,the performance in court,of the State's Counsel and particularly,the manner in which Garda planning,tactics and command structure were,very clearly,shown to be deficient had nothing whatever to do with Joan Burton.

The Jury's decision,unnanimous as it was,has very definitely highlighted a MAJOR set of problems within the Gardai,which now require immediate and wide-ranging action to address.

The removal of the current Commissioner would be a good starting point,with an interim replacement sourced from OUTSIDE the Garda Siochana.

end of the road · 01-07-2017 02:16PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

The important thing is water charges were done away with and Ireland will go without the pay by usage revenue stream every other civilised country has to invest in their water infrastructure. Truly a noble victory.

oh it is a victory for now. water charges aren't totally gone, the fight goes on.
the money wouldn't go into the water infrastructure in reality, it is just another gambling debt tax with a company set up to give jobs to the boys to make it seem like we are actually going to have a proper water system in place.

AlekSmart wrote: »

???....Steady on Boy.......To misquote a well known former activist...."They haven't gone away,y'know".

Water Charging,as established policy,has gone nowhere.

It is merely in abeyance,for the Irish Urbanistas.

I'd suggest that Solidarity will have even greater broad public support for their campaign on Refuse Charging,which is,and always has been,the more important issue surrounding dodgy and anti-social Governmental Practice relating to Public Services.

However,It will be interesting to see how much leeway,the Privatized Refuse Industry will be prepared to give to any organized campaign against their new revenue stream ?

Interesting times ahead ?

it will be interesting, but i have no doubt anything the privatized Refuse Industry will do will spur the solidarity men and women to fight harder. we are dealing with a new group now who don't give up on their campaigns.

AlekSmart · 01-07-2017 02:23PM

end of the road wrote: »

the law does not need changing in relation to this. the law is perfectly fine and there is and was nothing for these 6 to be punished for.

Where we do need to insure a change in the law, is in relation to insuring political and show trials can no longer be brought. the 6 are not guilty, democracy subverting was stopped, and protest can continue

I wonder if people understand the meaning of the term "Show Trial" at all ?

The accused recieved the benefit of a full and open Trial,conducted in public and with the benefit of FULL and individual Legal Representation,provided for them by the Free Legal Aid system,and you are calling it a "Political Show-Trial" ....How in any rational thinking persons mind,could one reach such a conclusion from this Trial ?

Go back through the trial records,and see how well conducted the entire process was !!

AlekSmart · 01-07-2017 02:29PM

end of the road wrote: »

It will be interesting, but i have no doubt anything the privatized Refuse Industry will do will spur the solidarity men and women to fight harder. we are dealing with a new group now who don't give up on their campaigns.

But,we are not "dealing with" a new group at all.

The cast of characters remains the same,ith only a reinvention of their name,and a bit of marketing hoopla now added.

They have,doubtless,now managed to get well ahead of the established parties innterms of Social Media Manipulation and the importance of being able to immediately organize campaigns via it's various strands.

Their strategy remains unchanged,in hovering around above the place,just waiting for something which looks like it can be turned into a "Campaign" to bolster their overiding need to portray ALL State policies as being Anti-People and/or oppressive.

Ireland under Solidarity,would be an "Interesting" place for sure...but perhaps not in the way you appear to think ?

suicide_circus · 01-07-2017 02:31PM

To me it's just a real shame that this honestly impressive grassroots movement was directed at such a lame self-defeating unworthy cause. I think water charges just became a focal point for people's austerity anger. Just imagine what it could have achieved had it been aimed at the health service or homelessness.

buried · 01-07-2017 02:38PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

To me it's just a real shame that this honestly impressive grassroots movement was directed at such a lame self-defeating unworthy cause. I think water charges just became a focal point for people's austerity anger. Just imagine what it could have achieved had it been aimed at the health service or homelessness.

People against the privatised 'Irish water' company isn't the homogeneous group of 'not paying nothing for anything' crew that some try to portray. I've been paying for water service's out here in the country all my life. And was happy to do so, while the resource was in the hands of my local authority. But I'll be f**ked if I'll pay it to some privatised corporation who may one day give it away to the likes of Shell or some other crew who will take OUR money for OUR resource and then takes that money and profit OUT of our country. Anyone who thinks that sort of move would be a good one for this country is either (A) A peasant like IDIOT or (B) Connected to making sure that grim corporate resource rape scenario comes about

tayto lover · 01-07-2017 02:39PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

To me it's just a real shame that this honestly impressive grassroots movement was directed at such a lame self-defeating unworthy cause. I think water charges just became a focal point for people's austerity anger. Just imagine what it could have achieved had it been aimed at the health service or homelessness.

Water tax was the straw that broke the camel's back kind of thing.
Property tax would have been a better target imo (a tax on the home you provided for yourself by your own sacrifices and labours). However that's the way it is. People were angry and rightly so and they marched in their thousands, myself among them. It's only when the thuggery began that the entire movement was ruined for many. All people had to do besides marching was refuse to pay.

Professor Moriarty · 01-07-2017 02:41PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

To me it's just a real shame that this honestly impressive grassroots movement was directed at such a lame self-defeating unworthy cause. I think water charges just became a focal point for people's austerity anger. Just imagine what it could have achieved had it been aimed at the health service or homelessness.

But such causes don't get you publicity. Nah, the people who elected Murphy are much better served by his populist stunts and sound bites than having him working in a meaningful way on issues that are actually important.

Jobstown 6 Not Guilty

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