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Electric Ireland solar panels & EV charging?

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  • 11-05-2017 1:18pm
    #1
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭


    Electric Ireland has recently started to offer domestic PV solar panels:

    https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/products/smarter-living/solar-pv

    Including a diverter, which automatically uses any generated power to heat water if there's no other demand for electricity in the house at any given time, the cost is about EUR 5,000.

    Would it be a runner to use the diverter to charge an EV instead of heating water?


«13456

Comments

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    #2
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,762 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Yes you can. Your EV would have to be at home and plugged in at the brightest hours of the day for it to be any use.

    €5k is a ridiculous price for a 1.5kW system though...


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    #3
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    unkel wrote: »
    Yes you can. Your EV would have to be at home and plugged in at the brightest hours of the day for it to be any use.

    €5k is a ridiculous price for a 1.5kW system though...

    I even looked at this via DIY panels and offline non synched MPPT inverters, still didn't make any financial sense , I either generated electricity when I had no use for it , or didnt have it when I needed it . I even looked at adding some Li Ferrous CALB large prismatics batteries into the mix, ( I have a few) . even that didnt really help


    its needs FIT and without it , especially in Ireland, its a joke


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    #4
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    I got price for under 5k for 2kW(8 panel) system from Solar Electric

    I think the Electric Ireland offer is a joke. Some points:
    • You need to be customer to use the HP option.
    • If you move to Electric Ireland for this offer I would guess you don't get discounts you normally would if moving provider
    • I talked to Electric Ireland before about this and they wanted people who take it up to show they have the ability to pay there bills over a period of time. So don't expect to move and sign up unless it has changed
    • 5 euro extra per month for an app??? FFS
    • You will end up pushing electricity back into grid, you are not getting any payback for this from Electric Ireland. SO they are taking your excess power and selling it on but you are paying them for it?????

    I would look at Irish EV Owners Association offer of 10% off SolarElectric.ie


  • Options
    #5
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,762 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I got price for under 5k for 2kW(8 panel) system from Solar Electric

    Still far too expensive.
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I would look at Irish EV Owners Association offer of 10% off SolarElectric.ie

    Yeah, we all got spammed with that, thank you IEVOA. Nothing on the link to actual deals, actual prices, etc. :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #6
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,762 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I even looked at this via DIY panels and offline non synched MPPT inverters, still didn't make any financial sense , I either generated electricity when I had no use for it , or didnt have it when I needed it . I even looked at adding some Li Ferrous CALB large prismatics batteries into the mix, ( I have a few) . even that didnt really help


    its needs FIT and without it , especially in Ireland, its a joke

    Yep true enough, it won't make financial sense. But I would still be interested. Even if the pay back time is long. Every little help to make this world a bit better, etc. I might just go ahead and hope a FIT will come.

    I will pay a fair price for supply & fit, but I won't be getting myself overcharged though.


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    #7
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    unkel wrote: »
    Yep true enough, it won't make financial sense. But I would still be interested. Even if the pay back time is long. Every little help to make this world a bit better, etc. I might just go ahead and hope a FIT will come.

    I will pay a fair price for supply & fit, but I won't be getting myself overcharged though.

    at the time I had some big Kyocera panels off a boat project , but the system never really made sense. The panels were at their best when I was on me boat , and the house was locked up , worse when I needed heat (i.e. the winter)

    without a way to time shift the energy , its all but useless


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    #8
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,613 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Still think people are incredibly hung up on fit. It may come it may not come the pay off will be longer.

    But the luxury of not being utterly reliant on electric bills and not worrying about putting your electric hogging devices on standby or being knocked off when you are not there is vast. Coupled with heating water.

    It will pay off it will take more time and you won't be impacted by jumps in energy prices.

    Comfort can make sense


  • Options
    #9
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    listermint wrote: »
    Still think people are incredibly hung up on fit. It may come it may not come the pay off will be longer.

    But the luxury of not being utterly reliant on electric bills and not worrying about putting your electric hogging devices on standby or being knocked off when you are not there is vast. Coupled with heating water.

    It will pay off it will take more time and you won't be impacted by jumps in energy prices.

    Comfort can make sense

    leaving aside the "off the grid " crazies etc , I dont see where you are coming from here

    currently there is NO pay off, in any reasonable understanding of the word , and secondly the technology is not capable of removing your dependance on the grid ( in any normal circumstance )
    But the luxury of not being utterly reliant on electric bills and not worrying about putting your electric hogging devices on standby or being knocked off when you are not there is vast. Coupled with heating water.

    sorry, you just propose to leave stuff on , " because you can " , wow that must be the most bizarre justification Ive ever heard

    i wash my clothes for 16 cents a night and dishes for 8 cents a night , these are singularly ( after the EV ) the greatest hoggers, Il be a long time affording a €10K installation !!!!!

    as for hot water, I hear this repeatedly, we use no hot water from storage systems at all, hand water is instantaneously heated as required as is shower water ( running costs are virtually so low as to be negligible )


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    #10
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    unkel wrote: »
    Still far too expensive.



    Yeah, we all got spammed with that, thank you IEVOA. Nothing on the link to actual deals, actual prices, etc. :rolleyes:

    8 panels is under 5k that will generate 2kW
    12 panels is under 6k that will generate 3kW

    Depending on 10% off I would be looking at 5.5k for the 12 panels.
    You can also claim the VAT back on HRI so that would leave the 12 panel at close to 5k

    The 8 panel would be maybe 3.5k give or take.

    They are saying with 12 panel I will save circa 600 euro per year. So 9 years before I have paid them off more or less.

    With the 8 panel it would be 400 per year.

    I know everyone says XYZ is too expensive but point me in direction of some company doing it cheaper and I will sign up tomorrow.


  • Options
    #11
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    8 panels is under 5k that will generate 2kW
    12 panels is under 6k that will generate 3kW

    Depending on 10% off I would be looking at 5.5k for the 12 panels.
    You can also claim the VAT back on HRI so that would leave the 12 panel at close to 5k

    The 8 panel would be maybe 3.5k give or take.

    They are saying with 12 panel I will save circa 600 euro per year. So 9 years before I have paid them off more or less.

    With the 8 panel it would be 400 per year.

    I know everyone says XYZ is too expensive but point me in direction of some company doing it cheaper and I will sign up tomorrow.


    Has the HRI been extended from 2016 re the VAT ?


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    #12
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    I would look at Irish EV Owners Association offer of 10% off SolarElectric.ie[/QUOTE]


    I notice SolarElectric make this claim on their worked examples

    "A smart meter is installed by ESB to track power used in the house, which allows for the power to be sold back to the grid."

    this is a mis truth


  • Options
    #13
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Has the HRI been extended from 2016 re the VAT ?

    According to Electric Ireland and Solar it is

    I also need to get a fence installed and the contractor said about HRI


  • Options
    #14
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    8 panels is under 5k that will generate 2kW
    12 panels is under 6k that will generate 3kW

    Depending on 10% off I would be looking at 5.5k for the 12 panels.
    You can also claim the VAT back on HRI so that would leave the 12 panel at close to 5k

    The 8 panel would be maybe 3.5k give or take.

    They are saying with 12 panel I will save circa 600 euro per year. So 9 years before I have paid them off more or less.

    With the 8 panel it would be 400 per year.

    I know everyone says XYZ is too expensive but point me in direction of some company doing it cheaper and I will sign up tomorrow.

    DIY I can get 4Kwp for about 3-4K , plus installation hardware and solar regulator/invertor

    the main problem is I have nowhere for the damm electricity to go !!!!


  • Options
    #15
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    BoatMad wrote: »
    DIY I can get 4Kwp for about 3-4K , plus installation hardware and solar regulator/invertor

    the main problem is I have nowhere for the damm electricity to go !!!!

    DIY I would probably electrocute myself or blow something up :P:P


  • Options
    #16
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    DIY I would probably electrocute myself or blow something up :P:P

    its actually very simple , the panels themselves are low voltage and the odd belt of mains never did anyone any harm!! :D

    its much simpler then ,many think , especially for a ground or flat roof install, the stuff is mainly all off the shelf stuff


  • Options
    #17
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,613 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    BoatMad wrote: »
    leaving aside the "off the grid " crazies etc , I dont see where you are coming from here

    currently there is NO pay off, in any reasonable understanding of the word , and secondly the technology is not capable of removing your dependance on the grid ( in any normal circumstance )



    sorry, you just propose to leave stuff on , " because you can " , wow that must be the most bizarre justification Ive ever heard

    i wash my clothes for 16 cents a night and dishes for 8 cents a night , these are singularly ( after the EV ) the greatest hoggers, Il be a long time affording a €10K installation !!!!!

    as for hot water, I hear this repeatedly, we use no hot water from storage systems at all, hand water is instantaneously heated as required as is shower water ( running costs are virtually so low as to be negligible )

    Crazies off grid? Where did I say off grid. ...

    You comprehend the term not reliant I presume. Well I have to presume because most of your posts seem to be thought out.

    Your assertion that you can never get an ROI is drivel I'd love to go into details but I won't because you Claimed and install is 10k so there's not point in engaging with that because it's not factual.

    So far they only element of craziness is your maths and also your focus solely on fit


  • Options
    #18
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,613 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    BoatMad wrote: »
    DIY I can get 4Kwp for about 3-4K , plus installation hardware and solar regulator/invertor

    the main problem is I have nowhere for the damm electricity to go !!!!

    Into your house.

    If you can get that sort of money on install it's paying itself in 3 to 4 years..


  • Options
    #19
    sunny2004
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭sunny2004


    Im new to this so forgive me my stupidity, but is there no viable option for using solar power domestically in this country ?


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    #20
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,613 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    sunny2004 wrote: »
    Im new to this so forgive me my stupidity, but is there no viable option for using solar power domestically in this country ?

    Yes there is. But you can't sell additional power to the supplier grid.it just goes into it.

    This is the current case it may change it may not.

    So the onus would be to use that power in your home


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    #21
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    sunny2004 wrote: »
    Im new to this so forgive me my stupidity, but is there no viable option for using solar power domestically in this country ?

    Certainly if you're home all day and using the power generated. The one I am considering is thermodynamics, because I know it will at least heat the water we need, but I am not even convinced by that tech.


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    #22
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    listermint wrote: »
    Into your house.

    If you can get that sort of money on install it's paying itself in 3 to 4 years..

    not a chance , my bill is 80 a month and that includes 625 units on average at night rate for the EV per month

    since I cant time shift the energy , what use is 4kWp in the middle of a summers day , when the house is locked up

    the house uses 1 units per 12 hours quiescent ( mainly the fridge and a few computers ( well about 20 computing devices ! running continuously ) thats upto 3kWp capacity sitting there wasted, yet its not enough when the full loads arrive ( nor when the sun isnt shining )

    I simply cant use the generated power !


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    #23
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    sunny2004 wrote: »
    Im new to this so forgive me my stupidity, but is there no viable option for using solar power domestically in this country ?

    I dont believe there is at this point in time due to the lack of FIT and the expense of batteries to allow you to time shift the energy produced


  • Options
    #24
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,613 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    BoatMad wrote: »
    not a chance , my bill is 80 a month and that includes 625 units on average at night rate for the EV per month

    since I cant time shift the energy , what use is 4kWp in the middle of a summers day , when the house is locked up

    the house uses 1 units per 12 hours quiescent ( mainly the fridge and a few computers ( well about 20 computing devices ! running continuously )

    I simply cant use the generated power !

    Well then your not really the ideal person for it at all families would be. Your usage is tiny.


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    #25
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,613 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I dont believe there is at this point in time due to the lack of FIT and the expense of batteries to allow you to time shift the energy produced

    For you.


    Be clearer with posters who don't fully understand it.


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    #26
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    listermint wrote: »
    For you.


    Be clearer with posters who don't fully understand it.

    I cant see any situation where the installation makes financial sense without FIT for anyone , no costs analysis I seen provides for returns in under 10 years and even those are widely over egged.

    people here are talking about 20 year breakevens on complex installs ( batteries etc ) . thats just madness

    dont get me wrong , Im a great fan of the tech, and I have a technically awesome setup on the boat , but thats different


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    #27
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,613 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I cant see any situation where the installation makes financial sense without FIT for anyone , no costs analysis I seen provides for returns in under 10 years and even those are widely over egged.

    people here are talking about 20 year breakevens on complex installs ( batteries etc ) . thats just madness

    The definition of madness is focusing on 1 fact. Fit.

    Then making that fact fit into everyone elses life. You clearly don't have a bunch of kids or large energy needs during the day therefore as I said it makes no sense to you.

    And to state that a 5k install will take 20 years to pay back for a family described above is a fallacy.

    Stop putting everyone else into your box because not everyone fits in it.

    Good.luck


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    #28
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Regarding HRI

    Finance (No 2) Act 2013 and Finance Act 2014 provide for a Home Renovation Incentive (HRI) Scheme, which will run from 25 October 2013 to 31 December 2018 for Homeowners and from 15 October 2014 to 31 December 2018 for Landlords


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    #29
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    listermint wrote: »
    The definition of madness is focusing on 1 fact. Fit.

    Then making that fact fit into everyone elses life. You clearly don't have a bunch of kids or large energy needs during the day therefore as I said it makes no sense to you.

    And to state that a 5k install will take 20 years to pay back for a family described above is a fallacy.

    Stop putting everyone else into your box because not everyone fits in it.

    Good.luck

    I think you mistake my argument , you have not provided any facts , yet I have tried to present some , directly relevant to me.

    I have monitored my house consumption electronically since 1995 over three houses , ( with kids house cleaners, live in au-pairs etc etc all using electricity )

    I still see no serious justification based on acknowledge engineering data ( and not wishful thinking ) that suggests that Solar PV of any reasonable size ( i.e. 4Kwp and up ) makes any financial sense in the current regulatory and price point market


    Because I develop software for this market , ( mostly for Uk /German ) I have a serious interest in it. But FIT is the key driver ( and was responsible for the massive takeoff in Germany , so much that they had to scale it back )

    . If you have alternative data, or you seriously think 20 years is an acceptable payback , then lets debate it , rather then you just using short sentences to dismiss my personal experience and my knowledge


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    #30
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    listermint wrote: »
    The definition of madness is focusing on 1 fact. Fit.

    Then making that fact fit into everyone elses life. You clearly don't have a bunch of kids or large energy needs during the day therefore as I said it makes no sense to you.

    And to state that a 5k install will take 20 years to pay back for a family described above is a fallacy.

    Stop putting everyone else into your box because not everyone fits in it.

    Good.luck

    Not sure which one of you is right but I haven't seen worked examples showing it payback in reasonable timeframes either.

    Do you have numbers that show it working. Can you share?


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    #31
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    listermint wrote: »
    Crazies off grid? Where did I say off grid. ...

    You comprehend the term not reliant I presume. Well I have to presume because most of your posts seem to be thought out.

    Your assertion that you can never get an ROI is drivel I'd love to go into details but I won't because you Claimed and install is 10k so there's not point in engaging with that because it's not factual.

    So far they only element of craziness is your maths and also your focus solely on fit

    why would their be any concern to be reliant on the grid . Theres no argument down that road.

    I met with a solar installer last week, a competitive fully installed system was 10K ( and yes I think he was too expensive ) , he claimed he could save it over 10 years (he started out saying 6 )

    we worked through the maths , as i demolished each assumption he made, its became clear that most of this industry is quite frankly hood winking people ( rather like wood pellets did )

    FIT is the key , because the primary problem is that energy consumption in most houses rises in the winter , rises at night and at times when solar panels are not producing peak output

    The alternative is a big battery bank , but that just moves the ROI even further away and batteries in reality are simply over coming the absence of a feed in tariff , and in that respects are completely dead money ( there is some argument for high power EV charging )


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