2017 UK General Election - 8th June

devnull · 20-04-2017 07:21PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If May gets a large majority who could stop her rail-roading lot of changes through like Brexit was rail-roaded through ?

There's no real opposition in parliament, the unions aren't powerful , the EU has no say. The Queen has already agreed to an election and she isn't getting younger and her successor won't have a power base for a while. The House of Lords wasn't able to do anything about Brexit.

This was my point earlier in the thread.

Essentially those who claim they voted for 'democracy' against "dictatorship" by voting to leave the EU, are essentially going to be the same ones who are going to vote in massive numbers for May in an election which gives her more power than any Prime Minister in the UK for at least half a century whereby she is not far off having the power of a dictator.

The House of Lords is a very good example of May acting like a dictator, she believes that they should exist, but if they do not vote the way she wants them to or vote a different way to the Commons, she threatens with having them removed or by filling the chamber with people who has the same view that she does.

It's essentially - you're allowed to have the democratic right to vote as long as the majority of you do whatever I tell you.

A Dub in Glasgo · 20-04-2017 07:48PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

52% of the binding election expressed .

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

52% of the binding election last June expressed

What is it with this 'election' and 'binding' nonsense?

4068ac1elhodqr · 20-04-2017 07:59PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

What is it with this 'election' and 'binding' nonsense?

Well not technically binding, but it essentially formed the decision (based on 52% result to proceed with Brexit), which is what has and is happening.

To claim it's only 27% or so, is exactly the same as claiming 25% wanted to remain (based on electorate). The rest undecided.

I realise many still have issues adjusting to the fact Article 50 was signed recently by the HoS and handed to Brussels, but it did happen, did it not?

To go against this would have been a failure of democracy and most likely seen widespread protests. Right or wrong, good or bad, it's democracy in action.

snowflaker · 20-04-2017 08:02PM

Toy enhanced Maj

SNP hold in Scotland

Modest Lib Dem gains

Labour collapse

murphaph · 20-04-2017 08:08PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

Well not technically binding, but it essentially formed the decision (based on 52% result to proceed with Brexit), which is what has and is happening.

To claim it's only 27% or so, is exactly the same as claiming 25% wanted to remain (based on electorate). The rest undecided.

I realise many still have issues adjusting to the fact Article 50 was signed recently by the HoS and handed to Brussels, but it did happen, did it not?

To go against this would have been a failure of democracy and most likely seen widespread protests. Right or wrong, good or bad, it's democracy in action.

Would it be undemocratic to hold another referendum? If Brexit is such a great thing then it'll sail home a second time, right?

4068ac1elhodqr · 20-04-2017 08:19PM

murphaph wrote: »

Would it be undemocratic to hold another referendum? If Brexit is such a great thing then it'll sail home a second time, right?

Yes, right now is ideal within just 12months, and then after that have another one in 2018, and again in 2019, 2020 also. The folks in Brussels could just install a door type sign for in/out.

Would another one this June see the massive turnout of 33,568,184 ballot papers, 72.2% of electorate, the highest since 1992 for the UK?

A Dub in Glasgo · 20-04-2017 08:23PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

Well not technically binding,.

No technically about it, non-binding full stop

catbear · 20-04-2017 08:23PM

I think it's a safe bet that the queen could die before march 2019 and then May could declare a two year period of mourning just to not have to do deal with brexit!

At that rate the UK will slip into being an EU protectorate or dominion.

4068ac1elhodqr · 20-04-2017 08:29PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

No technically about it, non-binding full stop

Perhaps in that case you have a solid legal case against it, and against the 52% that voted for it. A crowdfunding page should be set up at once.

Worth noting the turnout back in 1975 to join the EU was only 64.5%, compared to the recent 72% turnout.

A Dub in Glasgo · 20-04-2017 08:43PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

Perhaps in that case you have a solid legal case against it, and against the 52% that voted for it. A crowdfunding page should be set up at once.

Worth noting the turnout back in 1975 to join the EU was only 64.5%, compared to the recent 72% turnout.

Do you know what binding actually means?

4068ac1elhodqr · 20-04-2017 08:53PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Do you know what binding actually means?

Do you know that Brexit (for better or worse) is underway? The PM signed this big aul letter, and the bill was even given Royal Assent. I realise many people have issues accepting this. Also, that big lad that used to star in the Apprentice TV show, well now he is now the President. In France there is some NF leader and someone said she could maybe win over there, crazy eh?

A Dub in Glasgo · 20-04-2017 08:58PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

Do you know that Brexit (for better or worse) is underway? The PM signed this big aul letter, and the bill was even given Royal Assent. I realise many people have issues accepting this. Also, that big lad that used to star in the Apprentice TV show, well now he is now the President. In France there is some NF leader and someone said she could maybe win over there, crazy eh?

Yes, do you know what binding means?

4068ac1elhodqr · 20-04-2017 09:04PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Yes, do you know what binding means?

As mentioned, not techincally binding, but the vote decision has 'singly and directly' allowed for Brexit to occur. Wish you well with your acceptance anxiety.

catbear · 20-04-2017 09:09PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

As mentioned, not techincally binding, but the vote decision has 'singly and directly' allowed for Brexit to occur. Wish you well with your acceptance anxiety.

But it wasn't binding which is the term you went all freakoid on.

murphaph · 20-04-2017 09:10PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

Yes, right now is ideal within just 12months, and then after that have another one in 2018, and again in 2019, 2020 also. The folks in Brussels could just install a door type sign for in/out.

Would another one this June see the massive turnout of 33,568,184 ballot papers, 72.2% of electorate, the highest since 1992 for the UK?

But the last general election was just 2 years ago, so this one is equally undemocratic as a second referendum say 2 years after the last?

ancapailldorcha · 20-04-2017 09:10PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Yes, do you know what binding means?

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

Wish you well with your acceptance anxiety.

catbear wrote: »

But it wasn't binding which is the term you went all freakoid on.

Cut this out please.

aled · 20-04-2017 09:12PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

As mentioned, not techincally binding, but the vote decision has 'singly and directly' allowed for Brexit to occur. Wish you well with your acceptance anxiety.

So no matter what happens in the election Brexit will happen. It is signed and sealed. There is no going back? Is that the case? If so Teresa May has pulled a master-stroke. The election is not about Brexit but who can lead Brexit. And Corbyns response is to raise taxes for the wealthiest. If this is the focal point of his manifesto I am all for a conspiracy theory. Is he deluded or are they working in tandem :-)

Sam Russell · 20-04-2017 09:12PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

As mentioned, not techincally binding, but the vote decision has 'singly and directly' allowed for Brexit to occur. Wish you well with your acceptance anxiety.

It was a vote that required a confirming vote in parliament - so spake the UK Supreme Court. So NO, the referendum was not binding in any sense of the word.

It was the Act of Parliament that was binding - even if it was no longer than a tweet.

4068ac1elhodqr · 20-04-2017 09:19PM

catbear wrote: »

But it wasn't binding which is the term you went all freakoid on.

You get the idea surely, May had no choice but to accept the decision even against her own wishes, she was morally and democratically binded to proceed with it. What would have happened if she didn't, one can only imagine...

The good news (for others) is that Scotland will most likely very shortly be an independent state and may choose to re-enter - if more than 50% of the voting public decide as such.

A Dub in Glasgo · 20-04-2017 09:30PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

The good news (for others) is that Scotland will most likely very shortly be an independent state and may choose to re-enter - if more than 50% of the voting public decide as such.

Only if May allows the vote

ancapailldorcha · 20-04-2017 09:31PM

Posts deleted. Catbear and A Dub in Glasgo, any more low quality posts will result in mod action.

BoatMad · 20-04-2017 09:38PM

Akrasia wrote: »

Corbyn is so clueless.

His first speech is attacking millionaire tax evaders and going for populist socialism.

All he has to do is focus on brexit! The majority of UK voters want to stay in the EU. If Corbyn had single message "We will do everything we can to reverse brexit, to stay in the EU and prevent the breakup of the UK" they will control the debate and force May into answering the questions she is desperately hoping to avoid.

Forget the usual socialist rhetoric. Make this a referendum on Brexit again. And a referendum on the breaking up of the UK.

It would take a lot of the wind out of the SNP sails too, because if Scotland choose to leave the UK, they will have to re-apply for EU membership with all the uncertainty that involves.

Thats all he has to do. Remind the UK voters how sickened they felt the day after the brexit vote. Remind them of how scared they are of the uncertainty and how the people of Gibralter are facing crisis, remind them of how disgracefully the pro brexit campaign acted after they won, by admitting that they campaigned based on lies and false promises, and how they refused to even stand up and take leadership after Cameron resigned.

Forget millionaire tax evaders. This is an election on a singe issue only.

Doh, the Labour party cannot campaign for Brexit , because large sections of their support base voted to " leave ". Hence it finds itself trip all over the place, its ideologically attached to Europe , however large parts of its base are not

BoatMad · 20-04-2017 09:40PM

Damien Rapping Hamster wrote: »

You get the idea surely, May had no choice but to accept the decision even against her own wishes, she was morally and democratically binded to proceed with it. What would have happened if she didn't, one can only imagine...

The good news (for others) is that Scotland will most likely very shortly be an independent state and may choose to re-enter - if more than 50% of the voting public decide as such.

I think the most interesting aspect of this election will be what happens in Scotland. The election there will in essence be a Indyref2 pre-run

in SNP looses ground( in a material way ) , May will be emboldened to ignore calls for such a referendum and Indyref2 will disappear

IN the SNP retain its MPs, then they will be emboldened to press ahead and MAY will be weakened on the issue.

interesting , interesting , May certainly has cojones

devnull · 20-04-2017 09:44PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I think the most interesting aspect of this election will be what happens in Scotland. The election there will in essence be a Indyref2 pre-run

in SNP looses ground( in a material way ) , May will be emboldened to ignore calls for such a referendum and Indyref2 will disappear

IN the SNP retain its MPs, then they will be emboldened to press ahead and MAY will be weakened on the issue.

May will have such a majority that she will not be weak on any issue. At the end of the day, with a huge majority, realistically what can the SNP do if May won't give them what they ask for?

Even if they get all the other parties to club together to vote against her they still won't have anywhere near enough to make any difference and it's not like the Tories depend on Scotland a lot and need the seats there.

At the end of the day May with a majority of over 100 has a pretty much free reign to do whatever she wants.

aled · 20-04-2017 09:47PM

BoatMad wrote: »

Doh, the Labour party cannot campaign for Brexit , because large sections of their support base voted to " leave ". Hence it finds itself trip all over the place, its ideologically attached to Europe , however large parts of its base are not

If I read Akrasia correctly he was suggesting that Labour should focus on anti-Brexit and not Brexit as a campaign

BoatMad · 20-04-2017 09:47PM

devnull wrote: »

May will have such a majority that she will not be weak on any issue. At the end of the day, with a huge majority, realistically what can the SNP do if May won't give them what they ask for?

Even if they get all the other parties to club together to vote against her they still won't have anywhere near enough to make any difference and it's not like the Tories depend on Scotland a lot and need the seats there.

I dont agree, There are considerable risks in this election for May, 7 weeks is a long time. There is a risk that Remainers will protest vote , There is a risk that the SNP will be returned with a fresh mandate in the face of its calls for Indyref2

There is a risk of Lid-dem resurgence if only as a once off protest vote .

Electorates dont like being taken for granted and this is a huge case of that . remember hubris before a fall etc

BoatMad · 20-04-2017 09:49PM

aled wrote: »

If I read Akrasia correctly he was suggesting that Labour should focus on anti-Brexit and not Brexit as a campaign

whats " anti Brexit " when its at home ?

A Dub in Glasgo · 20-04-2017 09:53PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I dont agree, There are considerable risks in this election for May, 7 weeks is a long time. There is a risk that Remainers will protest vote , There is a risk that the SNP will be returned with a fresh mandate in the face of its calls for Indyref2

Fresh but irrelevant. The SNP have a mandate for an independence vote from the Scottish Parliament elections last year and they have a mandate from the GE 2 years ago. Even if the SNP only get 30 seats in the next GE, that will still be a mandate

BoatMad · 20-04-2017 09:57PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Fresh but irrelevant. The SNP have a mandate for an independence vote from the Scottish Parliament elections last year and they have a mandate from the GE 2 years ago. Even if the SNP only get 30 seats in the next GE, that will still be a mandate

Thats not the way politics works.

the SNP has clearly nailed its colours to its mast in regards the EU and Independence. This is will the defining policy of their election platform, even if they themselves dont want it to be so.

a fall in MPs will be clearly seem as a weakening of that " mandate " by all and sundry and will undermine the SNP position, ( especially if the Tories make some ground in Scotland )

aled · 20-04-2017 09:58PM

BoatMad wrote: »

whats " anti Brexit " when its at home ?

the option to repeal article 50 and return to the EU fold would spring to mind?

2017 UK General Election - 8th June

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