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BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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Comments

  • #572
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    devnull wrote: »
    The idea is to simply find any issue to argue about that they don't really care about, make some stupid and idiotic claim, pretend that they are so outraged by it, everyone votes in a ballot to strike (even though they don't care about it) and then they can claim that they have a genuine reason to go on strike and their strike is perfectly legal

    Of course the whole idea behind it is to ramp up pressure on the minister for transport to cave into the BE staff and that is why they are going on strike, purely for that reason, but they cannot say that upfront, they are just deliberately creating a reason to go on strike.

    The fact they are prepared to strike under false pretenses, tells you just how much they care about the public.

    The courts would see right through that charade though.

    If they go out in sympathy, I hope the courts show them no sympathy.


  • #573
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    The courts would see right through that charade though.

    If they go out in sympathy, I hope the courts show them no sympathy.

    They will claim they have a mandate because they will be next or something like that, at least that is the line that O'Leary was spinning the last few weeks.


  • #574
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    devnull wrote: »
    They will claim they have a mandate because they will be next or something like that, at least that is the line that O'Leary was spinning the last few weeks.

    but if they "manufacture " a legitimate dispute , they must exhaust the mechanism of the LRC/Workplace relations etc before they can strike

    you just cant manufacture a reason and walk out the door and it remain legal


  • #575
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    loyatemu wrote: »
    :eek: this can't be true?

    It is.


  • #576
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    BoatMad wrote: »
    but if they "manufacture " a legitimate dispute , they must exhaust the mechanism of the LRC/Workplace relations etc before they can strike

    you just cant manufacture a reason and walk out the door and it remain legal

    But if they do walk out, who's going to stop them? When does this race to the bottom stop (see what I did there)? Next thing the gardaí and nurses will be out in support of BE woorkers.


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  • #577
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    n97 mini wrote: »
    But if they do walk out, who's going to stop them? When does this race to the bottom stop (see what I did there)? Next thing the gardaí and nurses will be out in support of BE woorkers.

    its simple, ban secondary picketing , make unions that do not use the mechanism of the state liable for any looses accrued as a result of such strike action.

    how long you think SIPTU has financial resources to handle looses in IE , DB etc


  • #578
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,917 ✭✭✭GM228


    Two things to clarify which have been raised in this thread:-

    1. Exhausting the mechanisms of the WRC is not required before striking.

    2. IE and DB do not need to manufactur their own issues to go out with BE, they can simply mandate for a sympathy strike.


  • #579
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,917 ✭✭✭GM228


    BoatMad wrote: »
    how long you think SIPTU has financial resources to handle looses in IE , DB etc

    The unions can't be held liable for any losses.


  • #580
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    GM228 wrote: »
    Two things to clarify which have been raised in this thread:-

    1. Exhausting the mechanisms of the WRC is not required before striking.

    2. IE and DB do not need to manufactur their own issues to go out with BE, they can simply mandate for a sympathy strike.

    then we need emergency legislation to outlaw secondary picketing, there is no dispute between the workers and IE or DB


  • #581
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    GM228 wrote: »
    The unions can't be held liable for any losses.

    they should be for secondary picketing , that what I said


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  • #582
    Shamrock776
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭Shamrock776


    GM228 wrote: »
    Two things to clarify which have been raised in this thread:-

    1. Exhausting the mechanisms of the WRC is not required before striking.

    2. IE and DB do not need to manufactur their own issues to go out with BE, they can simply mandate for a sympathy strike.

    But give 7 days notice so at that stage BE would be somewhere between 10-14 days into a strike, the company won't exist that long.

    I'm sure you will vote for action?


  • #583
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    BoatMad wrote: »
    its simple, ban secondary picketing , make unions that do not use the mechanism of the state liable for any looses accrued as a result of such strike action

    It's not secondary picketing if they picket at their own locations and only with their own staff and have a ballot of their own that votes for action.


  • #584
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Shamrock776 wrote: »
    But give 7 days notice so at that stage BE would be somewhere between 10-14 days into a strike, the company won't exist that long.

    I'm sure you will vote for action?

    Apparently the ballot is going to happen on Wednesday, so realistically if the results come that day it's another seven days and realistically they won't give notice until the next day most likely, so I'd say it's going to be 13-14 days into a strike.

    The thing is that BE could have already had the last rites by then and by which point the privates would have made a packet and they'd have lost many passengers who would never return to them and have discovered alternatives.

    The longer this goes on the worse it is going to be for BE. I don't say that it necessary means they will die (but it's possible) but the longer the strike, the more long term damage is going to be done and they are going to have serious problems with customers who have left who won't come back.


  • #585
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    devnull wrote: »
    Of course they are, they are the ones who handed blank cheque after blank cheque over to pretty much the whole public sector for year after year without having any accountability of what the money was spent on.

    The old FF mantra was, people are protesting, lets give them more money, lets not sort out the problems, here now, not like the money will ever run out will it....oh crap!!!

    But the fact remains

    Expressway is a commercial service, how does the union expect the Gov to effectively fund salaries in a commercial arm, that is then failing commercially

    This cannot really be solved by the Gov


  • #586
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    devnull wrote: »
    Apparently the ballot is going to happen on Wednesday, so realistically if the results come that day it's another seven days and realistically they won't give notice until the next day most likely, so I'd say it's going to be 13-14 days into a strike.

    The thing is that BE could have already had the last rites by then and by which point the privates would have made a packet and they'd have lost many passengers who would never return to them and have discovered alternatives.

    The longer this goes on the worse it is going to be for BE. I don't say that it necessary means they will die (but it's possible) but the longer the strike, the more long term damage is going to be done and they are going to have serious problems with customers who have left who won't come back.
    If they all vote to walk off in sympathy then BE might quickly pull the plug on Expressway. No going back then.

    The stakes have been raised. Don't DB have a no strike clause in their latest deal btw?


  • #587
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    If they all vote to walk off in sympathy then BE might quickly pull the plug on Expressway. No going back then.

    The stakes have been raised. Don't DB have a no strike clause in their latest deal btw?

    whatever happens BE Expressway is dead I suggest


  • #588
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    If they all vote to walk off in sympathy then BE might quickly pull the plug on Expressway. No going back then.

    The stakes have been raised. Don't DB have a no strike clause in their latest deal btw?

    Also raised considerably for the minister and the government. I hope he's good at poker, but I can see FF pulling the plug on the govt first.


  • #589
    WomanSkirtFan8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 768 ✭✭✭WomanSkirtFan8


    L1011 wrote: »
    Tens of thousands a day.

    yep. 110, 000 people affected last i heard.:rolleyes:


  • #590
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    BoatMad wrote: »
    whatever happens BE Expressway is dead I suggest

    Move all the drivers over to PSO routes and wait for them to retire. Get the unions to agree to a "pull up the ladder" deal for new entrants. Will take up to 40 years for the whole thing to level, which is a long time.


  • #591
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    devnull wrote: »
    Especially when it's a minority government, all FF have to do is say that they will withdraw support if the government do not give in, there will be an election and FF will be in power and will give in anyway.
    I'm not sure about that. I think FG would be happy to go to the country on this with FF finding themselves on the wrong side of public opinion - FF have been very quiet on this because they are in very much a lose/lose position.

    BE and IR staff would want to be very careful as I'm pretty sure the country can survive without them. DB drivers have the whip hand.


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  • #592
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Also raised considerably for the minister and the government. I hope he's good at poker, but I can see FF pulling the plug on the govt first.

    no way would FF cause an election on the back of a transport strike. The anger against them would be huge

    this strike has no public support whatsoever, FF are not pulling anything down that could mean blame is attached to them

    it would also mean that BE and its staff would then be left in a vacuum till the incoming Gov was elected , possibly a 4 -5 month delay

    result - BE wound up

    Nope FF will not push the button on this


  • #593
    Shamrock776
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭Shamrock776


    hmmm wrote: »
    I'm not sure about that. I think FG would be happy to go to the country on this with FF finding themselves on the wrong side of public opinion - FF have been very quiet on this because they are in very much a lose/lose position.

    BE and IR staff would want to be very careful as I'm pretty sure the country can survive without them. DB drivers have the whip hand.

    Very good point and chances are an election would only result in FG having to prop FF up in some way, they wouldn't get enough for an overall majority.


  • #594
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    hmmm wrote: »
    I'm not sure about that. I think FG would be happy to go to the country on this with FF finding themselves on the wrong side of public opinion - FF have been very quiet on this because they are in very much a lose/lose position.

    BE and IR staff would want to be very careful as I'm pretty sure the country can survive without them. DB drivers have the whip hand.

    yes IE is irrelevant , rail service carry virtually no-one outside dublin and DB can handle Dart traffic

    DB is a different kettle of fish


    If we have a transport strike , Gov should rapidly privatise Dublin city routes and remove DB monopoly

    we simply cannot be held ransom to this nonsense , public sector are already on average the highest paid grouping in Ireland


    all off the back of taxes from the ordinary folk, who hold tenuous private jobs

    lets get real ,


  • #595
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,905 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Bus Eireann has €7m left in the tank with a strike costing €3.5m per week two weeks which means BE will be no more within the next two weeks unless the goverment gives in, in the meantime which I can't see. So really they're just digging the Bus Eireann grave faster.


  • #596
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    BoatMad wrote: »
    no way would FF cause an election on the back of a transport strike. The anger against them would be huge

    this strike has no public support whatsoever, FF are not pulling anything down that could mean blame is attached to them

    it would also mean that BE and its staff would then be left in a vacuum till the incoming Gov was elected , possibly a 4 -5 month delay

    result - BE wound up

    Nope FF will not push the button on this

    I hope you're right, but I don't see it playing out that way.

    As we noted before the grey vote is not afraid to use it. Many rural pensioners with no bus service will be straight into their local TD. The FF ones will see it as an opportunity to make political hay.


  • #597
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    hmmm wrote: »
    I'm not sure about that. I think FG would be happy to go to the country on this with FF finding themselves on the wrong side of public opinion - FF have been very quiet on this because they are in very much a lose/lose position.

    BE and IR staff would want to be very careful as I'm pretty sure the country can survive without them. DB drivers have the whip hand.

    They didn't fare to well on Friday.


  • #598
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,469 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Absolutely.

    Anyone with a modicum of sense would immediately break up the transport cartel.


  • #599
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    BoatMad wrote: »
    yes IE is irrelevant , rail service carry virtually no-one outside dublin and DB can handle Dart traffic

    Every rail line is mirrored by a BE service and without BE I'd say there are record numbers using the trains at the moment. Take out IE too and you only have the handful routes licensed to privates.


  • #600
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    A general election on this issue wouldn't solve anything. Would BÉ survive a month and would the electorate look kindly on giving in to ransom demands?

    It might play down the country, in a Dublin vs country debate, but wouldn't play well at all in Dublin where the brunt of the strike would be felt.

    If DB go out it will hasten their dismantling.


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  • #601
    Shamrock776
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭Shamrock776


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I hope you're right, but I don't see it playing out that way.

    As we noted before the grey vote is not afraid to use it. Many rural pensioners with no bus service will be straight into their local TD. The FF ones will see it as an opportunity to make political hay.

    They will only go if they know they can get a majority, this won't delver that. The whole IE and particularly DB is just to put pressure on as you can clearly see the media and most political members don't give a sh*t at the minute, you barley see it get coverage where as DB and Luas was non stop coverage.
    They didn't fare to well on Friday.

    Lack of notice was the real problem with IE...


This discussion has been closed.
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