BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

n97 mini · 27-03-2017 12:18PM

gct wrote: »

The race to the bottom has to stop..

I wish this rhetoric would stop. Will BE drivers be worse paid than their counterparts in other companies? No, therefore they won't be at the bottom of anything.

pilly · 27-03-2017 12:21PM

n97 mini wrote: »

I wish this rhetoric would stop. Will BE drivers be worse paid than their counterparts in other companies? No, therefore they won't be at the bottom of anything.

I agree, I would have a lot more sympathy for the BE drivers if they stopped the continual spouting out of the usual union phrases like "race to the bottom".

It's tired and boring.

Hilly Bill · 27-03-2017 12:47PM

pilly wrote: »

I agree, I would have a lot more sympathy for the BE drivers if they stopped the continual spouting out of the usual union phrases like "race to the bottom".

It's tired and boring.

It's true though they would have you on minimum wage if they could get away with it. I've no real insight as to what the strike is fully about but if it's about a cut to the basic wage then i support them but if it's about cut to overtime then i haven't. Basically you should be paid for the hours that you work with your standard. Contract hours guaranteed. If they are cutting agreed expenses, i support the workers.

pilly · 27-03-2017 12:50PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It's true though they would have you on minimum wage if they could get away with it. I've no real insight as to what the strike is fully about but if it's about a cut to the basic wage then i support them but if it's about cut to overtime then i haven't. Basically you should be paid for the hours that you work with your standard. Contract hours guaranteed. If they are cutting agreed expenses, i support the workers.

Well maybe look into so before you start commenting on a forum.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 12:55PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It's true though they would have you on minimum wage if they could get away with it. I've no real insight as to what the strike is fully about but if it's about a cut to the basic wage then i support them but if it's about cut to overtime then i haven't. Basically you should be paid for the hours that you work with your standard. Contract hours guaranteed. If they are cutting agreed expenses, i support the workers.

The primary proposal is to seek an increase in driver productivity , and as a result to cut overtime , BE claim that drivers actually only drive for 5 hours out of a contracted 9 and that this figure is considerably less then the private sector

as a result of the claim, they say they has an excessive overtime bill. which they want to cut. The problem with continous overtime, is that it becomes seen as a standard wage , when of course it isn't . SO hence the rucus

n97 mini · 27-03-2017 01:20PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It's true though they would have you on minimum wage if they could get away with it. I've no real insight as to what the strike is fully about but if it's about a cut to the basic wage then i support them but if it's about cut to overtime then i haven't. Basically you should be paid for the hours that you work with your standard. Contract hours guaranteed. If they are cutting agreed expenses, i support the workers.

They company is offering pay rises of 1% to 3% in the basic wage in exchange for reductions in overtime payments, e.g. if you call in sick you don't get paid for overtime you didn't do. Currently such overtime is actually paid.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 01:23PM

n97 mini wrote: »

They company is offering pay rises of 1% to 3% in the basic wage in exchange for reductions in overtime payments, e.g. if you call in sick you don't get paid for overtime you didn't do. Currently such overtime is actually paid.

some of the work practices in the semi state and especially CIE group of companies border on the bizarre

WomanSkirtFan8 · 27-03-2017 01:48PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The unions are fighting for better conditions for workers, not for higher public approval - something which the LUAS dispute clearly demonstrated.

yes but the only difference between BE and DB and LUAS was the fact that neither of those two companies were in any immediate danger of going insolvent.

:rolleyes:

end of the road · 27-03-2017 01:51PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The public hatred of the BE strikers will begin today. The unions were allowed a few days of throwing their toys out of the pram, but the mood will be very different as of this morning. This will be a mandate for the government to do away with BE.

The BE unions will soon learn their glory days have ended.

as has been said thousands of times over my years on here (i don't understand why this is hard to grasp) the union's job is to look after it's paying members. nothing more and nothing less. public approval is nice but ultimately it won't make the issue go away. i think the only people who have a "hatred" of be are a small few on here. the only "mandate" the government will have to do away with be will be their own one, nothing to do with the public.

n97 mini · 27-03-2017 02:08PM

Off topic, but while the prison system is privatised, the justice system isn't. Kick-backs were offered and the judges, public servants, took them. That's a draw.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 02:12PM

end of the road wrote: »

as has been said thousands of times over my years on here (i don't understand why this is hard to grasp) the union's job is to look after it's paying members. nothing more and nothing less. public approval is nice but ultimately it won't make the issue go away. i think the only people who have a "hatred" of be are a small few on here. the only "mandate" the government will have to do away with be will be their own one, nothing to do with the public.

true, but it is not a unions job to cause a situation that services are disrupted and the solution foists more costs on the taxpayer,

PS unions in the service sector are in a different place to a conventional union in a private company

BuffyBot · 27-03-2017 02:38PM

..And I repeat, do not feed the trolls.

Hilly Bill · 27-03-2017 03:06PM

n97 mini wrote: »

They company is offering pay rises of 1% to 3% in the basic wage in exchange for reductions in overtime payments, e.g. if you call in sick you don't get paid for overtime you didn't do. Currently such overtime is actually paid.

That makes sense if it's the contract hours they get and not the actual driving hours.

murphaph · 27-03-2017 03:22PM

end of the road wrote: »

as has been said thousands of times over my years on here (i don't understand why this is hard to grasp) the union's job is to look after it's paying members. nothing more and nothing less. public approval is nice but ultimately it won't make the issue go away. i think the only people who have a "hatred" of be are a small few on here. the only "mandate" the government will have to do away with be will be their own one, nothing to do with the public.

Weird post. You claim the union is there to represent the members but suggest the government is not there to represent the people.

Peppa Pig · 27-03-2017 03:25PM

BoatMad wrote: »

true, but it is not a unions job to cause a situation that services are disrupted and the solution foists more costs on the taxpayer,

If unions are there to protect their members interests then the first port of call should be to ensure they have a job. The way they are going, they are seriously endangering the drivers jobs. All the while screaming for Shane Ross and the chequebook to protect them.

Contrast this with the situation in Baush and Lomb a while back. They were leaving Ireland until the union negotiated a pay cut which saved most of the jobs. Had they gone on an all out strike to protect workers conditions, race to the bottom etc all the staff would have lost their jobs.The union were to be commended in that case. Funny, the AAA/PBP etc were strangely silent on that one.

jimmycrackcorm · 27-03-2017 03:45PM

BoatMad wrote:

PS unions in the service sector are in a different place to a conventional union in a private company

As in the example above, in the private sector unions will work with the company. However as with the LUAS strike, they are basically trying to blackmail the public because of a monopoly position. They should rightly be deposed because of this as it's simply not right.

I was advised to see the solidarity td suggest that BE should take on more workers instead of going for redundancies.

It's a great idea, abolish the dole queues by giving everyone unemployed a position in BE. We could have people fill every empty seat and rotate turns to drive every five minutes.

loyatemu · 27-03-2017 04:36PM

n97 mini wrote: »

...if you call in sick you don't get paid for overtime you didn't do. Currently such overtime is actually paid.

:eek: this can't be true?

L1011 · 27-03-2017 04:56PM

Deedsie wrote: »

Is the strike impacting upon many members of the public? If its not surely this is a bad move from the drivers. They are only hurting themselves.

Tens of thousands a day.

devnull · 27-03-2017 05:00PM

http://buseireann.ie/news.php?id=2275&month=Mar

Management today presented the Board of Bus Éireann with a plan which will secure the future of the company.

A key component of the plan, however is the achievement of cost efficiencies with employees to eliminate grossly inefficient work practices, which have been acknowledged by the unions during discussions at the Workplace Relations Commission.

The Board remain gravely concerned that losses continue to accelerate at Bus Éireann, exacerbated now by four days of strike action.

Regrettably, today the Board could not sign off accounts for 2016, or pass a budget for 2017 in the absence of agreement with staff. This is a very serious matter as the Board must now formally advise CIÉ that this governance requirement will not be met.

Without a plan which encompasses the necessary work practice changes to generate savings, it will not be possible to fund a voluntary redundancy scheme and faced with that scenario, the Board of Directors will have no option but to consider other measures to prevent the business becoming insolvent.

The Board requests all employees to urgently engage with management through their representatives to agree a survival plan to prevent insolvency and provide a viable future for Bus Éireann.

Peppa Pig · 27-03-2017 05:19PM

So we now have just statutory redundancy on the table, instead of (probably) 6 weeks pay per year. That's very serious for the drivers with long service.
At the least it's one thing the government will fund for BE.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 05:20PM

L1011 wrote: »

Tens of thousands a day.

its impacting them , but the disruption is relatively contained .

Shamrock776 · 27-03-2017 05:20PM

IE/DB (SIPTU) to ballot for action, NBRU will follow I'm sure...

Shamrock776 · 27-03-2017 05:24PM

devnull wrote: »

Snippet from the Indo:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/thousands-of-passengers-facing-chaos-as-strikers-get-support-from-dublin-bus-and-irish-rail-drivers-35567464.html

Hire more workers and result in big overtime payments stopped to existing staff, I don't see that going down well.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 05:29PM

Shamrock776 wrote: »

IE/DB (SIPTU) to ballot for action, NBRU will follow I'm sure...

outlaw secondary picketing , make the unions responsible for losses accumulated under such secondary picketing

SIpTU facing legal losses running into billions, would soon come to heal. It killed the ATGMOU in the UK

devnull · 27-03-2017 05:33PM

Shamrock776 wrote: »

IE/DB (SIPTU) to ballot for action, NBRU will follow I'm sure...

The idea is to simply find any issue to argue about that they don't really care about, make some stupid and idiotic claim, pretend that they are so outraged by it, everyone votes in a ballot to strike (even though they don't care about it) and then they can claim that they have a genuine reason to go on strike and their strike is perfectly legal

Of course the whole idea behind it is to ramp up pressure on the minister for transport to cave into the BE staff and that is why they are going on strike, purely for that reason, but they cannot say that upfront, they are just deliberately creating a reason to go on strike.

The fact they are prepared to strike under false pretenses, tells you just how much they care about the public.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 05:35PM

devnull wrote: »

The idea is to simply find any issue to argue about that they don't really care about, make some stupid and idiotic claim, pretend that they are so outraged by it, everyone votes in a ballot to strike (even though they don't care about it) and then they can claim that they have a genuine reason to go on strike and their strike is perfectly legal

Of course the whole idea behind it is to ramp up pressure on the minister for transport to cave into the BE staff and that is why they are going on strike, purely for that reason, but they cannot say that upfront, they are just deliberately creating a reason to go on strike.

The fact they are prepared to strike under false pretenses, tells you just how much they care about the public.

let the whole group rot, the state cannot be held to ransom

devnull · 27-03-2017 05:37PM

BoatMad wrote: »

let the whole group rot, the state cannot be held to ransom

Unfortunately I fear the government will have to give in on this one if DB and IR manufacture a reason to go on strike.

Especially when it's a minority government, all FF have to do is say that they will withdraw support if the government do not give in, there will be an election and FF will be in power and will give in anyway.

Shamrock776 · 27-03-2017 05:41PM

devnull wrote: »

The idea is to simply find any issue to argue about that they don't really care about, make some stupid and idiotic claim, pretend that they are so outraged by it, everyone votes in a ballot to strike (even though they don't care about it) and then they can claim that they have a genuine reason to go on strike and their strike is perfectly legal

Of course the whole idea behind it is to ramp up pressure on the minister for transport to cave into the BE staff and that is why they are going on strike, purely for that reason, but they cannot say that upfront, they are just deliberately creating a reason to go on strike.

The fact they are prepared to strike under false pretenses, tells you just how much they care about the public.

They will get the support from IE as well.

Unfortunately I fear the government will have to give in on this one if DB and IR manufacture a reason to go on strike.

Especially when it's a minority government, all FF have to do is say that they will withdraw support if the government do not give in, there will be an election and FF will be in power and will give in anyway.

Everyone knows CIE lads are all pro FF

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 05:43PM

devnull wrote: »

Unfortunately I fear the government will have to give in on this one if DB and IR manufacture a reason to go on strike.

Especially when it's a minority government, all FF have to do is say that they will withdraw support if the government do not give in, there will be an election and FF will be in power and will give in anyway.

There is no solution to " give in too"

The fact remains,

(a) the state cannot subvent Expressway
(b) BE has rising costs and can not cover those costs via increase in revenue from Expressway routes
(c) The balance sheet is perilous after three years of very significant losses

It actually doesnt matter, what the unions want , because merely giving in to the unions would force BE into insolvency , because it would merely retain the increased costs that are at the heart of its problems

The state cannot withdraw private operator licenses without huge claims for compensation

In effect , The union cant fix this issue , the only way forward is to cut expressway services on routes it cant compete on and simultaneously cut staff numbers as well

The net result is that even if pay scales are maintained , and BE manages to get some redundancies, all that will happen is next year the same financial mess will occur.

devnull · 27-03-2017 05:44PM

Shamrock776 wrote: »

Everyone knows CIE lads are all pro FF

Of course they are, they are the ones who handed blank cheque after blank cheque over to pretty much the whole public sector for year after year without having any accountability of what the money was spent on.

The old FF mantra was, people are protesting, lets give them more money, lets not sort out the problems, here now, not like the money will ever run out will it....oh crap!!!

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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