BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

Stephen15 · 25-03-2017 12:53AM

How come they only targeted train stations and not DB depots since phibsboro is right next to them in broadstone. Also DB workers obivously agreed to move the buses which O'Leary was calling a strike breaking move.

L1011 · 25-03-2017 01:00AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

How come theye only targeted train stations and not DB depots since phibsboro is right next to them in broadstone. Also DB workers obivously agreed to move the buses which O'Leary was calling a strike breaking move.

There is more than one entrance to picket at Phib/stone.

Jamie2k9 · 25-03-2017 01:01AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

How come theye only targeted train stations and not DB depots since phibsboro is right next to them in broadstone. Also DB workers obivously agreed to move the buses which O'Leary was calling a strike breaking move.

I think O Leary was moaning about DB moving buses out of that depot, didn't happen.

As for train stations IE staff didn't take much encouragement to join and "support"...

eeguy · 25-03-2017 01:03AM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I think O Leary was moaning about DB moving buses out of that depot, didn't happen.

As for train stations IE staff didn't take much encouragement to join and "support"...

Couldn't in all good conscience turn up the chance of a long weekend.

Stephen15 · 25-03-2017 01:17AM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I think O Leary was moaning about DB moving buses out of that depot, didn't happen.

As for train stations IE staff didn't take much encouragement to join and "support"...

According to RTE news the b/stone buses were moved phibsboro a couple over the last couple of days I saw on the news last night a dublin bus leaving broadstone I assume it was being moved as it was on the 9 o'clock and not many buses would be going that late.

If BE workers were targeting train stations such as Cork and Waterford where there isin't much BE aswell as private buses involvement then I'm surprised they didn't target a DB depot right beside them.

Jamie2k9 · 25-03-2017 01:18AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

According to RTE news the b/stone buses were moved phibsboro a couple over the last couple of days I saw on the news last night a dublin bus leaving broadstone I assume it was being moved as it was on the 9 o'clock and not many buses would be going that late.

If BE workers were targeting train stations such as Cork and Waterford where there isin't much BE aswell as private buses involvement then I'm surprised they didn't target a DB depot right beside them.

Cork are back at work and TBH what happened in Cork is not a surprise given history. BE did not picket Cork this morning.

Stephen15 · 25-03-2017 01:29AM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Cork are back at work and TBH what happened in Cork is not a surprise given history. BE did not picket Cork this morning.

Something gives me the impression that Dublin Bus made a profit in 2015 while IE and BE both made significant loses its the difference between proviking urban and rural transport.

devnull · 25-03-2017 01:31AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Something gives me the impression that Dublin Bus made a profit in 2015 while IE and BE both made significant loses its the difference between proviking urban and rural transport.

Dublin Bus has practically zero competition on it's core routes with very limited examples.

Irish Rail and Bus Eireann have competition on their core routes.

Jamie2k9 · 25-03-2017 01:38AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Something gives me the impression that Dublin Bus made a profit in 2015 while IE and BE both made significant loses its the difference between proviking urban and rural transport.

IE losses are down to a million or so.

TBH don't think the divide is a thing but if there is not talkes by middle of next week you get impression it could spread to DB. IE are hoping for an improved on routes impacted today.

25-03-2017 01:47AM

devnull wrote: »

Dublin Bus has practically zero competition on it's core routes with very limited examples.

Irish Rail and Bus Eireann have competition on their core routes.

Where is competition coming from for Irish Rail unless you mean bus routes

L1011 · 25-03-2017 01:49AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Where is competition coming from for Irish Rail unless you mean bus routes

Buses are major competition on all intercity routes (since the completion of the motorway network and continued road improvements) and commuter services. Many of these bus services are not BE services, particularly on Cork/Galway/Limerick and Dublin Commuter.

BoatMad · 25-03-2017 01:54AM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

IE losses are down to a million or so.

TBH don't think the divide is a thing but if there is not talkes by middle of next week you get impression it could spread to DB. IE are hoping for an improved on routes impacted today.

Nov 2016
Irish Rail is facing mounting losses of €103m a year. When historical losses are factored in, it will need over €600m by 2021.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irish-rail-chief-warns-on-funding--under-investment-could-threaten-safety-and-quality-430737.html

operating looses were 7million in 2015, but operating losses is a nonsense metric as its post subsidy

Stephen15 · 25-03-2017 01:55AM

Personally I think Bus Eireann needs to go as by the looks of things there is no coming back from the dead for company, CIE should really just shut down the company and do a restructure of the their bus operations. These are just suggestions.

-Sell off Expressway
-Merge the city operations in Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford aswell some the town services with Dublin Bus to create a new bus company fcousins purely on urban routes maybe call it City Bus
-Let the NTA put the rest out to tender

One of the problems with Bus Eireann seems to me that it operates to broad a range of services when it should really be focusing on one, it operates Urban in all cities bar Dublin, Regional, Intercity, Commuter and International routes with its Eurolines and cross border services.

Most bus operators around the world focus on one type of service whether that be Intercity, Urban, Commuter, Regional or International but Bus Eireann tries to be the jack of all trades and the master of none when it comes to the bus market.

L1011 · 25-03-2017 01:57AM

BoatMad wrote: »

operating looses were 7million in 2015, but operating losses is a nonsense metric as its post subsidy

Assuming a fair tendering process (which we can't, can we...) subsidy would have to be counted as its a valid part of the operational cost.

Stephen15 wrote: »

-Merge the city operations in Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford aswell some the town services with Dublin Bus to create a new bus company fcousins purely on urban routes maybe call it City Bus

Get out of my brain, you!

My thoughts were "CityBus" as, well, that but not merging with DB and another opco for the subsidised stage carriage services - "Red Setter" maybe.

BoatMad · 25-03-2017 01:59AM

L1011 wrote: »

Assuming a fair tendering process (which we can't, can we...) subsidy would have to be counted as its a valid part of the operational cost.

whatever way you count euros, Irish rails needs 100million just to stand still and over 600 million to cover historical looses

L1011 · 25-03-2017 02:02AM

BoatMad wrote: »

whatever way you count euros, Irish rails needs 100million just to stand still and over 600 million to cover historical looses

I imagine under tendering, the ~100m of subsidy would go no lower than maybe 70m, and that's optimistic. It is not going to go to zero. You cannot consider subsidy as part of loss when comparing to a privatised firm as they will be getting subsidies.

Stephen15 · 25-03-2017 02:05AM

L1011 wrote: »

My thoughts were "CityBus" as, well, that but not merging with DB and another opco for the subsidised stage carriage services - "Red Setter" maybe.

Either that or just setting up separate bus companies in each city like a smaller version of DB in the smaller cities.

BoatMad · 25-03-2017 02:06AM

L1011 wrote: »

I imagine under tendering, the ~100m of subsidy would go no lower than maybe 70m, and that's optimistic. It is not going to go to zero. You cannot consider subsidy as part of loss when comparing to a privatised firm as they will be getting subsidies.

Im just countering the nonsense that was stated that IR has its losses done to circa 1Million

its nowhere near that, its 7 million loss in 2015, but that does not take into account asset replacement, repair or anything else

L1011 · 25-03-2017 02:12AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Either that or just setting up separate bus companies in each city like a smaller version of DB in the smaller cities.

Not sure the extra overhead in terms of back office staff etc is justifiable for that. Some of the 'city' services are too small anyway. Cork is definitely big enough - I always rattle similarly sized Brighton out as an example of how bad our city buses are in comparison. Sligo is not. Galway and Limerick are debatable.

BoatMad wrote: »

Im just countering the nonsense that was stated that IR has its losses done to circa 1Million

its nowhere near that, its 7 million loss in 2015, but that does not take into account asset replacement, repair or anything else

Its not >100m either; though. Although I've not delved in to the accounts to see how the deal with fleet depreciation etc - they have a very new operational fleet by international standards (the 2600 DMUs, the 8100 DARTS and 071 freight locos being the only 'old' kit and considering all seem to be indestructible and the latter two have had refits; don't need replacing)

BoatMad · 25-03-2017 02:19AM

Its not >100m either; though. Although I've not delved in to the accounts to see how the deal with fleet depreciation etc - they have a very new operational fleet by international standards (the 2600 DMUs, the 8100 DARTS and 071 freight locos being the only 'old' kit and considering all seem to be indestructible and the latter two have had refits; don't need replacing)

I merel quote mr Franks Nov reported comments

L1011 · 25-03-2017 02:22AM

BoatMad wrote: »

I merel quote mr Franks Nov reported comments

If there's anything we should be used to not believing, its CIE/group company execs comments on profits :pac:

BoatMad · 25-03-2017 02:26AM

L1011 wrote: »

If there's anything we should be used to not believing, its CIE/group company execs comments on profits :pac:

the data is also in the 2015 corporate review but needs a bit of extracting

whatever way you look at it IR is a basket case, but then we know that , rail is not competitive

the sam cannot be said for bus transport , by and large it should be commercially profitable except for designated PSO routes where it receives subsidies

The issue here is the BE cannot compete due to out of control costs primarily wage and productivity issues and as a result excessive overtime payments

ClovenHoof · 25-03-2017 06:26PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

-Sell off Expressway
-Merge the city operations in Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford aswell some the town services with Dublin Bus to create a new bus company fcousins purely on urban routes maybe call it City Bus
-Let the NTA put the rest out to tender

There is the solution right there.

I especially LOVE the CityBus idea.

Isambard · 25-03-2017 06:30PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Personally I think Bus Eireann needs to go as by the looks of things there is no coming back from the dead for company, CIE should really just shut down the company and do a restructure of the their bus operations. These are just suggestions.

-Sell off Expressway
-Merge the city operations in Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford aswell some the town services with Dublin Bus to create a new bus company fcousins purely on urban routes maybe call it City Bus
-Let the NTA put the rest out to tender

One of the problems with Bus Eireann seems to me that it operates to broad a range of services when it should really be focusing on one, it operates Urban in all cities bar Dublin, Regional, Intercity, Commuter and International routes with its Eurolines and cross border services.

Most bus operators around the world focus on one type of service whether that be Intercity, Urban, Commuter, Regional or International but Bus Eireann tries to be the jack of all trades and the master of none when it comes to the bus market.

It doesn't make sense to do this. If you split off the local services covering the rural areas from the City services, you'd need two sets of engineering and depot. These are the services which are subsidised, so all you'd do is increase the amount needed in subsidy fro no improvement.

Polar101 · 25-03-2017 06:35PM

Well, I tried to take a train from Killarney on Friday, but the staff informed me there would be no train service (to Dublin). I got on Dublin Coach instead, surprisingly cheap at just €20 and it took about 4 hours 45 minutes which isn't unreasonable given the distance.

Let's see how long it takes for IE to process my refund request.

I don't mind striking as such, of course it's the job of the unions to try and fight for previously agreed benefits. I just don't see how this can work, if overtime is considered an essential part of the pay package, then there is already something wrong. And since BE are doing so badly, it's hard to see a way out that doesn't lead to job losses and pay cuts.

devnull · 25-03-2017 10:02PM

Graham wrote: »

I'd fully support a Garda presence to ensure any such bully-boy intimidation tactics are put to quick halt with any offenders taken away for at least a few hours to reconsider their approach to 'negotiation'.

I hope the GoBE staff and members of the public involved made a formal complaint. It can't be that difficult to identify the individuals involved.

Unfortunately they seem to have won with their intimidation.

From Monday, all GoBe services in both directions will be canceled for the duration of the strike.

The sad thing is the lads involved will the actions will be thinking it's job done now.

JCX BXC · 25-03-2017 10:06PM

Any predictions as to whether the trains will be affected again by the BE strike? Taking on in a week and a bit and as I'll be using it to catch a flight I am a bit weary.

oppenheimer1 · 25-03-2017 10:08PM

devnull wrote: »

Unfortunately they seem to have won with their intimidation.

From Monday, all GoBe services in both directions will be canceled for the duration of the strike.

The sad thing is the lads involved will the actions will be thinking it's job done now.

GoBe should sue those involved for loss of earnings. That carry on isn't acceptable.

devnull · 25-03-2017 10:09PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

GoBe should sue those involved for lots of earnings. That carry on isn't acceptable.

Might be politically difficult however.

The service is a partnership between Bus Eireann and GoBus even if the service is technically a GoBus one operated by non BE staff.

oppenheimer1 · 25-03-2017 10:11PM

JCX BXC wrote: »

Any predictions as to whether the trains will be affected again by the BE strike? Taking on in a week and a bit and as I'll be using it to catch a flight I am a bit weary.

Hard to know to be honest. If the BÉ dispute is still going on it will be likely to have escalated by then.

That said if the dispute is still going in a weeks time there may be no BÉ left

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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