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TDs Travel Expenses

  • 05-03-2017 2:01pm
    #1
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭


    Given the amount of money that could be saved and the financial crisis within Bus Eireann, would people be in favour of giving TDs and Senetors a free travel pass instead of travel expenses?
    I kind of get the argument in favour of expenses (you have to go to Dublin despite having been elected as a resident of the given constituency), however I don't see why
    a) expenses are unvouched
    b) a free travel pass would not suffice (if you want to travel by car, fine, but at your expense)


Comments

  • #2
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    How much money would it save, and would those savings be sufficient to compensate for the inevitable inefficiencies involved?


  • #3
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Not certain of the actual figures involved but it would be a massive boost in terms of peoples perceptions and might lead to investment in public transport


  • #4
    jelutong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭jelutong


    Couldn't agree more. It would give them a taste of the real world that they continually spout about.


  • #5
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,149 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So when the Dail finishes late at 11.00 p.m., what are the option for the bus back to Letterkenny for the constituency meeting at 8.00 a.m. the following morning?


  • #6
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    blanch152 wrote: »
    So when the Dail finishes late at 11.00 p.m., what are the option for the bus back to Letterkenny for the constituency meeting at 8.00 a.m. the following morning?

    You could argue the same for any citizen and yet they don't get expenses to get to there place of work


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  • #7
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    You mad they wouldn't commute with the peasants.

    Ross only done it at 10 am when everyone was already in work.
    Bet you he got on didn't know how to show his pass and didn't even say hello or bye to the driver.


  • #8
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Last Stop wrote: »
    You could argue the same for any citizen and yet they don't get expenses to get to there place of work

    Anyone who has to travel away from their main place of work gets expenses, if not then they are being taken for a fool.

    So if I have one job to do in Dublin and another in Letterkenny then I'd get expenses for the travel.


  • #9
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    Would Ministers travelling by bus have a State car following to carry their brief case and Important Papers?:)


  • #10
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,524 ✭✭✭Allinall


    nuac wrote: »
    Would Ministers travelling by bus have a State car following to carry their brief case and Important Papers?:)

    Mary Harney had a state car follow a helicopter carrying her down to leitrim to open an off license.


  • #11
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Anyone who has to travel away from their main place of work gets expenses, if not then they are being taken for a fool.

    So if I have one job to do in Dublin and another in Letterkenny then I'd get expenses for the travel.

    But if your main place of work is Dublin and you choose to live in Letterkenny, you wouldn't. Politicians choose to become politicians so I guess you have to take he good with the bad.
    Also I don't know of any other profession that still offer unvouched expenses


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  • #12
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Last Stop wrote: »
    Given the amount of money that could be saved and the financial crisis within Bus Eireann, would people be in favour of giving TDs and Senetors a free travel pass instead of travel expenses?
    I kind of get the argument in favour of expenses (you have to go to Dublin despite having been elected as a resident of the given constituency), however I don't see why
    a) expenses are unvouched
    b) a free travel pass would not suffice (if you want to travel by car, fine, but at your expense)

    Are you serious? What a childish load of nonsense. They are our public representatives that we elect to represent us in government. The savings would be tiny and it is completely reasonable that our democratically elected public representatives can claim reasonable travel expenses in the course of performing their duty.

    Would you seriously have the minister for health/finance etc of our country waiting for a bus on the way to a work engagement somewhere down the country? Jesus wept.

    Ridiculous.


  • #13
    newacc2015
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭newacc2015


    blanch152 wrote: »
    So when the Dail finishes late at 11.00 p.m., what are the option for the bus back to Letterkenny for the constituency meeting at 8.00 a.m. the following morning?

    A video conference or phone in is an option and should be the choice the TD makes. How do you think the executives of Google Dublin have a meeting with the Google California?


  • #14
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Last Stop wrote: »
    But if your main place of work is Dublin and you choose to live in Letterkenny, you wouldn't. Politicians choose to become politicians so I guess you have to take he good with the bad.
    Also I don't know of any other profession that still offer unvouched expenses


    But TDs work in two different places, Dublin and their constituency, that's the reality of the job.

    If you can't understand that then there is no use debating it with you.


  • #15
    Odelay
    Registered Users Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭Odelay


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    A video conference or phone in is an option and should be the choice the TD makes. How do you think the executives of Google Dublin have a meeting with the Google California?

    I'm quite certain that they sometimes travel for face to face meetings, and I strongly doubt the use the bus for all meetings.


  • #16
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,149 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    A video conference or phone in is an option and should be the choice the TD makes. How do you think the executives of Google Dublin have a meeting with the Google California?

    Have never met a senior Google executive on a bus.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    But TDs work in two different places, Dublin and their constituency, that's the reality of the job.

    If you can't understand that then there is no use debating it with you.

    A TD for Letterkenny has a job.

    That job is in one location.

    That location is in Dublin.

    If everyone eligible to vote understood this we'd all be far better off. But, alas.


  • #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A TD for Letterkenny has a job.

    That job is in one location.

    That location is in Dublin.

    If everyone eligible to vote understood this we'd all be far better off. But, alas.

    Im glad everyone eligible to vote doesnt believe that, and you clearly don't understand how things work.

    Tell me this, what does a TD do with his clinic if he is permanently employed in Dublin?


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    denartha wrote: »
    Im glad everyone eligible to vote doesnt believe that, and you clearly don't understand how things work.

    Tell me this, what does a TD do with his clinic if he is permanently employed in Dublin?

    He doesn't have a clinic because he's not an effin doctor.

    He is a legislator.

    He hasn't a job back home.

    I understand how things work, thanks sweetie. I also understand how they're designed to work, how people would like them to work when it suits, how people think they work but don't and finally, given the batsh1t mix of above that our childish lack of responsibility and comprehension allied to our adoration of gombeenism has perpetuated, why nothing bloody works at all.


  • #20
    newacc2015
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭newacc2015


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Have never met a senior Google executive on a bus.

    Warren Buffett used to take the subway. So you might have been sitting beside him without realising it


  • #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    Warren Buffett used to take the subway. So you might have been sitting beside him without realising it

    Musha he has an entire carriage named after him on the Westport train


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  • #22
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,050 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I understand how things work, thanks sweetie.

    Don't talk down to other posters please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #23
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    Here's a five year old article on this. I'm sure you could find a more up to date example with a bit of effort.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/in-full-1-in-5-tds-claimed-more-than-e50k-in-expenses-344242-Feb2012/

    In the big scheme of things this might not be much, compared to say, running the HSE, however €50k does seem like a lot per person for travel expenses within a very small country.

    I seem to remember a story about a Dublin TD who claimed his holiday home in Cork or Kerry was his primary residence and then claimed 10s of 1000s in travel expenses for travel nobody believed he was actually doing. Of course he was under no obligation to provide any proof of his travel expense which is unlike every company I have ever worked for.

    Unvouched expenses need to go. Even if they don't result in our elected representatives stealing from us (which they do) they create the perception that they are stealing. I think ministers probably need a state car and all the expenses involved in that. Incidentally I don't think those things come up as expenses in this report. I think regular TDs who travel up to Dublin to show their face in the Dail should deal with it the same way the many, many regular citizens who have to commute like that do so and I very much doubt too many of them are getting €50k in travel expenses from their employer.


  • #24
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,256 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I say give them a fully financed car and cut the unvouched expenses.
    If a mid range exec in a company typically drives a passat or whatever, it would be reasonable to have a politician in one.
    Considering the amount of tax on car prices and fuel, a government funded car should be quite inexpensive overall.
    Let them drive themselves though.


  • #25
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I have seen Simon Coveney on the bus a few times.

    I don't think Politicians should be getting expenses for travelling into the Dail. It is absurd. Using Public Transport night give them a reality check of how shoddy the transport system is and Anti-Social behaviour.

    A big problem with TDs is that whenever they go away on junkets, they are driven everywhere and given VIP treatment. Even when they go on holidays with the family, it's probably rent-a-car.

    I would love to send the cabinet out to Tokyo or Seoul, experience the underground system, come home and attempt to tell us that everything is grand with a straight face.


  • #26
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,335 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    HivemindXX wrote: »

    I seem to remember a story about a Dublin TD who claimed his holiday home in Cork or Kerry was his primary residence and then claimed 10s of 1000s in travel expenses for travel nobody believed he was actually doing. Of course he was under no obligation to provide any proof of his travel expense which is unlike every company I have ever worked for.

    The person was a FF ex-TD, and was appointed a Senator. Senators do not have a constituency, so have no base. He registered a holiday home in the Bere peninsula as his principle home - which it clearly was not (he lived in Clontarf). He then claimed travel expenses from there. He was jailed for claiming expenses fraudulently on a matter to do with mobile phones.


  • #27
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    Here's a five year old article on this. I'm sure you could find a more up to date example with a bit of effort.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/in-full-1-in-5-tds-claimed-more-than-e50k-in-expenses-344242-Feb2012/

    In the big scheme of things this might not be much, compared to say, running the HSE, however €50k does seem like a lot per person for travel expenses within a very small country.

    I seem to remember a story about a Dublin TD who claimed his holiday home in Cork or Kerry was his primary residence and then claimed 10s of 1000s in travel expenses for travel nobody believed he was actually doing. Of course he was under no obligation to provide any proof of his travel expense which is unlike every company I have ever worked for.

    Unvouched expenses need to go. Even if they don't result in our elected representatives stealing from us (which they do) they create the perception that they are stealing. I think ministers probably need a state car and all the expenses involved in that. Incidentally I don't think those things come up as expenses in this report. I think regular TDs who travel up to Dublin to show their face in the Dail should deal with it the same way the many, many regular citizens who have to commute like that do so and I very much doubt too many of them are getting €50k in travel expenses from their employer.
    ]

    But a TD is not like a regular commuter as you suggest.

    A TD in Donegal traveling to Dublin for Dail business is no different than a private company employee employed in Donegal traveling to Dublin for company business.

    The TD you are thinking of in Ivor Calelly, a FF (no surprise) from Dublin in the mid 2000s.

    He has actually done jail time for various other expenses frauds he carried out as a TD.


  • #28
    Democracy.
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Democracy.


    Honestly I feel that TDs know before they run where the main place of work is and that's on Kildare at. They can say it's the constituency office all they want but that's simply I feel to justify expenses. Loads of other people have to travel miles to work don't get allowances. Look at paramedics in the national ambulance service they have to travel mad miles to work and sometimes from their home stations to work and get nothing. And look at Katherine zappone. She lives less than 25 km to Kildare at yet she was claiming the 25-60km allowance. The under 25 is 9000 or there abouts and the over 25 is 24000 odd euro. If I remember the news reporting on it she said at the time that the route she takes is 28 km and that apparently justified an extra 14000 euro a year. I've also heard that they get a separate pension for every ministerial job they hold? Does anyone know anything about this? Is it true?


  • #29
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Democracy. wrote: »
    Honestly I feel that TDs know before they run where the main place of work is and that's on Kildare at.

    Nonsense, their job is to represent their district in the national parliament and they cannot do that if they are not in a position to consult the people of the district and be consulted by them. Failure to adequately compensate TDs for this would mean voters closer to Dublin would have a better chance of representation than say people in Donegal.

    TDs conduct multiple clinics on a given day in their district, you cannot do that with a bus pass.

    But if we are going to entertain this idea why not do it for the entire public service? No doubt patients at say the University hospital in Galway will be happy to wait while the surgeon at the county hospital in Castlebar catches the bus to Galway.


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