Daily Mail's agenda on Brexit

The EU set up a page specifically to comment on the stuff the UK papers were making up over the years:
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

I don't know if they felt the need to set up a version for any other country. And it wasn't just the daily mail that was at it, the telegram was just as active, just more professional looking.

Brandnew404 wrote: »

How big of an influence do ye think the likes of the Daily Mail and other rags had on the outcome of the referendum?

A very large influence. I would say the tabloids have - all things considered and spread over the last two decades - been the single biggest driver of anti-EU sentiment in the UK. Considering that every time I've walked past a petrol station forecourt or entered a supermarket, the first thing you see (or next to first thing in a supermarket at any rate ... ) are the newspaper stands. The UK red-tops will almost always draw the eye due to their gaudy colours and absurdly large headline fonts. And almost every day I see at least one rag with an anti-EU spin on the front of it. The sheer volume of propoganda (lets not beat about the bush, that's exactly what most of it is) attacking the EU is - and has been since long before Wrexsh1t was set in motion - outragous. And don't forget that this has been a staple of British tabloids for over twenty years.

murphaph wrote: »

I'm also not super enthusiastic about the UK being able to tie the whole EU up in Brexit negotiations for 2 years and then say "actually we're grand".

TBH, I'd rather that (if you'll pardon my vested self-interest given I live in the UK .. ) than the alternative which is - at best - economically damaging for everyone involved in some way shape or form. A slap upside the head two years in the making and "carry on as you were" seems the better deal in that scenario. That of course is assuming no other crazy dilemmas occur in the intervening time that require the EU's undivided attention and/or damage-control.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I am not sure thats true either, I would say a more important root cause is the UK not applying the brake to migration from the Eastern accession states that France and Germany applied and that happened in the Blair years.

Cries of immigration are a symptom, not the cause. Explain Wales. Explain Cornwall. Explain Sunderland.

Most of the areas that voted in strong numbers to leave are economically starved or lagging far behind the Greater London region. There is a very strong sense of divide between south & north England. It's very easy to get people who are disenfranchised with the government - and the Tories are not well liked across the North of England because of their legacy during the 1980s - and perceive gloablisation as "elites sucking us dry" to vote against whatever the government wants for the sake of it. It's even easier to get disenfranchised people to vote against a Tory government because there is a rather strong argument given past history for the rationale of "if the Tories want it, it can't be good for me".

The rot that has set in was not caused by immigration.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

In counterpoint to what your saying you have the areas around London that voted to leave that are mainly inhabited by ex Londoners.
After having lived in England for a bit I do think that for at least the Polish and also I think for a lot of other eastern/central European places there is a fairly substantial culture gap thats not half as severe as between these groups as the Irish.

I can't speak for the Greater London area as I've not spent much time in those quarters; but I live (and have done for several years) in the North of England. Any sense of 'culture' shock between walking down a street with polish shops is mitigated twenty times over with the sheer ease at which one can find Indian or Pakistani (to pick two easily identifiable cultures) shops. Can you say "Bradford" quick enough? Parts of Leeds, Sheffield, and Manchester easily follow suit. Culture gaps are a bit of a red-herring for this particular argument. They add to a sense of "us and them" most certainly, but all things considered it's not a culture gap that's led the UK to this point imo. It comes back to resentment from the locals at perception of successive governments p1ssing all over them whilst watching other areas - particularly London - do well economically. Throw in twenty years of tabloid propoganda, add in an extra sprinking of resentment when a foreign family move in next door and one of them gets a job doing the same thing as you only they do well at it and it's not too difficult to see where the urban myths of "xyz nationality are stealing our jobs", etc. originate from.

The British press is incredibly biased, as we know the right wing xenophobic tabloids have literally made up stories and their constant propaganda has convinced many of the ordinary voters that the EU is the source of all their problems (in much the same way we were blaming the EU for our own self inflicted wounds as a result of the stupidity of our electorate voting for FF three times in a row during the boom).

Having said all that, I like most of them a lot, nobody has ever said anything that could even be remotely considered anti-Irish or xenophobic to me, whereas I still hear the odd thing about 'the English' at home (even though Wales also voted to leave, yet somehow the Welsh don't get the criticism at all), sadly. That really gets on my nerves, claiming we're a 'better' nation than they are is exactly the thing we complained about them when they occupied the country, we're showing ourselves to be exactly the same. Of course, as someone who's lived in the North of England for over four years (in an area that did vote to leave, albeit narrowly), they aren't really that different to us despite all the guff and bluster by some at home. Some of the things I've heard the likes of UKIP politicians say about foreigners over here are things that I've heard at home, the big difference is nobody has figured out a way of saying UKIP like things and being electorally successful with it (mercifully) and obviously we don't have hard right papers like the Daily Mail and Express (thanks be to goodness).

I know plenty of EU nationals who have also not experienced a single racist comment either before, during, or after the referendum. It is very unfair to say that all leave voters are xenophobic racists and UKIP or BNP type people, the vast majority of the Brits are very open minded and tolerant of people from other countries, it just doesn't bother them in the way I've heard people at home talk about foreigners (especially our nearest neighbour).

Some of them genuinely do believe the EU is holding them back and it's not about racism. Others do believe the guff about a 'Global Britain' and believe that they have far more influence on the global stage than they really do.

Others are just against the idea of laws being made outside the UK in principle and know there is an economic drawback to restoring some sovereignty but believe it is 'worth it'.

There are a myriad of reasons that are not bounded by Europhobia (although certainly a strong anti-EU sentiment there) or xenophobia or any kind of phobia but what is certainly true (at least amongst those who've told me they voted to leave and even amongst some remainers) is that there is an underlying sense of superiority about how 'great' and 'important' the UK is on the world stage, the old colonial mindset kicks in at times.

The stuff about being the 'world's fifth biggest economy' (even though it's now the 8th), for example. There is a total naievity about the EU giving them a good deal, I've heard the 'EU needs us more than we need them' line a few times, I've also heard the 'EU will give us a good deal because they won't want to disadvantage their own economies' line, of course the EU will want to give Britain a bad deal unless they capitulate on certain things, and why wouldn't they, sure if the EU lets the UK have whatever it wants we'd all want to leave.

Any of my fellow EU friends living there are all agreed that the UK is not going to get what it wants from Europe - we know this because we all agree that keeping the EU as a whole going is better for our countries as a whole than a good deal with Britain, since after all, a 'good' deal for the UK means that everyone else will want to leave, too. We all like the UK and the British very much - but not so much that we want to see our own countries leaving the EU - so if that means we have to take a bit of a hit so as to preserve the EU for the other 27 countries that will want to be open minded and keep their doors open to the outside world, we're prepared to take the consequences.

Indeed, we already have taken a hit, because of course our money is now worth far less in Euro terms since the referendum so going home is more expensive and even moving back to our home countries is more costly because Sterling has lost so much value - so ironically we're more likely to stay as it's the only way we can afford to buy a house and do those kind of grown up things (so much for 'taking back control' and having less immigrants eh?). Being in the EU has got to be better than being outside the EU otherwise it might as well not exist.

Let's not forget from an Irish point of view that of course we want (and indeed, need) a decent deal with the UK for so many reasons, there is all the ties with the North and the fact that Anglo-Irish relations are thankfully so much better than they used to be. The UK often backed us up in Europe and of course for all guff about the 'six counties' and all that Shinner claptrap we still are more likely to immigrate to the UK than anywhere else and they're still one of our most important trading partners. I for one am glad that we have a more grown up and mature relationship with our nearest neighbour than we used to.

All that said, the EU is clearly where our interests should align, yes of course the UK is an important trading partner and if I may use Theresa May's favoured phrase, of course we should try to be the UK's 'best friend and close neighbour', especially given how our countries are linked and how much better British-Irish relations are these days, nobody wants to go back to the bad old days (I hope), but the EU is more important, Belgium is now our biggest export market for example. Just because Britain has voted to turn inwards doesn't mean we need to copy them. I have a vested interest in not seeing a penal deal for the UK (and I don't believe it's in Ireland's interest for a bad deal, either), but I'm equally clear that being outside the club has got to be worse than being in the club, the EU has brought about an extraordinary turnaround in our nation's fortunes and we shouldn't forget that. It's not perfect, we were not well treated by the EU when we need them the most (although as I said at the start of my post, a lot of our wounds were self inflicted by voting for FF three times in a row) and we should never have joined the Euro (the Brits were dead right on that one), or at the very least not joined the Euro unless the Brits did the same thing, and yes, the leave voters have a point about democracy and decisions being made in Brussels instead of Dublin, but we've done so well out of the EU it more than compensates for the loss of sovereignty, so I want it to succeed and we need it to succeed. Indeed, given our abject failure to govern ourselves and the appalling populism that goes on in the country at times, such as the culture of entitlement and the belief that water should just magically fall from the sky and we shouldn't have to pay a penny for it despite the cost of it, I am damn glad the EU has some lever of control over us, half the things that helped transform the country would never have been done were it not for EU directives and good old technique of 'blaming' the EU for making us do things that are in the long term national interest but unpopular with the various NIMBYs in the country.

Indeed, it might be the chance for us to stand tall and get rid of the dependency on the British once and for all (after all, that surely was the whole point of seeking independence from Britain, that we got to control our own destiny and had the freedom to make our own decisions), and it might lead to something we've failed to do ourselves in the long run, which is for the North to vote to subsume itself into the Republic via peaceful means and for Scotland to get control of its own destiny instead of being ignored by Westminster (which is basically what's happening at the moment). Now, wouldn't that be quite something?