New Zoe, new wart?

ei9go · 25-01-2017 3:04pm

Offered to buy a Used Zoe last week from a dealer in NI if I could buy out the battery lease.

He rang Renault UK who said it was not possible to buy out a battery lease.

I think it's bizarre. Do they not want to sell cars.

25-01-2017 3:32pm

No, not on this Island they don't.

Electric you say ? see this lovely filthy diesel car, I think that would suit you better, don't even have to plug it in...........

Seriously, I've heard people say they were enquiring about the Zoe and salesmen were showing them diesels !!!

ei9go · 25-01-2017 3:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No, not on this Island they don't.

Electric you say ? see this lovely filthy diesel car, I think that would suit you better, don't even have to plug it in...........

Seriously, I've heard people say they were enquiring about the Zoe and salesmen were showing them diesels !!!

In fairness, they probably know that once the battery lease is mentioned, they won't buy it anyway as the sales figures and the low value of a used Zoe in the UK prove.

25-01-2017 3:48pm

They should try sell better.

The sales people should be on a lower base salary and be encouraged to "try harder" , even if that means going the extra mile by being more familiar with a produce, true sales people would sell sand to the Arabs, just look what some door to door people sell people, why ? because they are good at telling people they need something they don't want or need, and usually on a very low salary and in most cases not even on a salary at all, they get paid per sale and no more and they work hard for it.

Selling petrol and diesel cars is just too easy for lazy sales people.

80sDiesel · 26-01-2017 12:27pm

So they should sell them something that they don't need?

26-01-2017 12:34pm

80sDiesel wrote: »

So they should sell them something that they don't need?

Most people don't need the diesel !

ewj1978 · 31-01-2017 8:47pm

tweeted renault Ireland to day to see what teh story was. The say it (41kw) will be released on the 1st March.

31-01-2017 9:18pm

Cool, should make a huge difference. But people would definitely want to get the 44 Kw AC charger, 22 Kw is great on an SCP but 44 kw is definitely going to be handy on longer trips.

unkel · 31-01-2017 10:56pm

Anyone any idea what will be a realistic cash price (incl. delivery and metallic)? I can't see it be hugely successful unless it is cheap, €20k-€21k max incl battery ownership (that's more expensive than a base Leaf). Better range than the Ioniq (but we have to see how much better), Ioniq probably wins at all other fronts...

Just read that Renault UK is saying it will have a range of 124 miles (just over 200km) when it is particularly cold (I presume as cold as it gets in the UK?). That is meh, Ioniq can do that too or near enough it.

cros13 · 31-01-2017 11:14pm

Renault hasn't put out a formal price list. Unofficially it will be €24-27k after grant/credit for the various 41kWh trim levels.

01-02-2017 12:20am

unkel wrote: »

Just read that Renault UK is saying it will have a range of 124 miles (just over 200km) when it is particularly cold (I presume as cold as it gets in the UK?). That is meh, Ioniq can do that too or near enough it.

You'd want to be driving it quiet hard to get 200 Kms out of a 40 Kwh Zoe. That was probably Renault's official figure in a cold climate which Ireland does not have.

I'd say 250 Kms shouldn't be too difficult to achieve with 280 kms driving easy, of course time will tell.

unkel · 01-02-2017 12:56am

Yeah we'll have to see. But it's about 50% more capacity than the Ioniq which seems to have a real Irish winter range of over 200km (250km summer?), so it should get over 300km in Irish winter (375km summer), at the very least because it's smaller and less powerful.

But I'll put in a prediction here now: it won't.

01-02-2017 10:04am

I would say Zoe 40 Kwh could achieve 280 kms driving easy enough.

Zoe will be heavier than the Ioniq with an extra 10 Kwh to lug around.

Power has nothing really to do with it , if you got 200 HP and drive normally you will hardly ever see 200 HP, but drive it hard and it will almost certainly consume more power. Renault obviously think less power will mean more range, I'd rather have the power than want it.

You can accelerate to 100 Kph with 40 kw of power and need under 20 kw to maintain that on level ground.

250 Km Summer range in the ioniq at normal driving speeds ? I very much doubt it.

I'm still waiting for my test drive in the Ioniq.

ewj1978 · 01-02-2017 12:07pm

Would be nice to find any kind of long range test on this car.. suppose I'll wait till March and take one for a spin up a motorway to see what it'll real world.

Mancomb Seepgood · 01-02-2017 10:37pm

James and Kate have a review on YouTube. They seem quite underwhelmed but perhaps that happens when your daily driver is a Tesla. Is regen on the Zoe that poor?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIw8APxb8BM

grogi · 01-02-2017 11:00pm

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

James and Kate have a review on YouTube. They seem quite underwhelmed but perhaps that happens when your daily driver is a Tesla. Is regen on the Zoe that poor?

Poor? It might not be strong - but amount of regeneration that happens when the throttle is released is purely preference thing...

To say poor or good, they would have to measure how much energy is captured in the battery for each MJ of kinetic energy lost? Would 20%, 40% or 95% considered good?

unkel · 01-02-2017 11:30pm

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

James and Kate have a review on YouTube. They seem quite underwhelmed

Drives well but dear oh dear! Poor range, about 220km. Way shorter than you'd expect from the 40kWh battery. Price is good though at £21k, so about €21k here as we have better subsidies (about what I expected it needed to be, perhaps you can negotiate another €1k-€2k off). I'd say it will sell ok, but not in big numbers...

01-02-2017 11:37pm

I wonder does the Ioniq really have 28-30 kwh or more ?

unkel · 01-02-2017 11:42pm

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

James and Kate have a review on YouTube. They seem quite underwhelmed but perhaps that happens when your daily driver is a Tesla.

Nope, they liked the similarly cheap Ioniq a lot better. In fact they rate them 1. i3, 2. Ioniq, 3. Leaf, 4. Zoe. It should be noted the the i3 is a lot cheaper in the UK relative to the others, maybe a few £k more. Here in Ireland it is a lot more expensive than any of them. The i3 is a lot quicker than any of them, and I've no doubt it's by far the best to drive (haven't driven it myself, but hey, it's a BMW

)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3yu37Bqk3s

In the video for the Zoe, towards the end James says about the new Zoe:

James wrote:

Especially after driving the Hyundai Ioniq, which with a much smaller battery pack, gets over the mileage this car produces. So, sadly, it's a bit of a thumbs down situation for us

unkel · 01-02-2017 11:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder does the Ioniq really have 28-30 kwh or more ?

But why on earth would they sell it as 28kWh if it had more? That wouldn't help sales (and thus profitability) at all. Most people would just presume that the Zoe has almost 50% more range because its battery has almost 50% more capacity and range is a #1 sales argument at this stage of the EV game (coming from gen 2 and moving towards gen 3)

01-02-2017 11:57pm

I presume they might do it for the publicity helping to sell it , who knows. Mad idea but possible. I'd like to know how they made it so efficient, aerodynamics is only part of it I bet.

unkel · 02-02-2017 12:14am

Aerodynamics is a huge part. Nobody tests the range of an EV without doing at least a good bit of motorway driving, usually at about the speed limit. This is where the Ioniq excels. I'd say the Ioniq in summer will do about 200km at 120km/h. The 30kWh Leaf (a more expensive car with less toys) probably no more than 130-140km (just making these figures up, but I'd challenge anyone to test this and prove I'm way off the mark)

And none of us know much about how good the Ioniq is at regen, but my guess is that it is pretty good there too.

02-02-2017 2:05pm

Regen won't give you much on long motorway runs, good for town driving with lots of start stop , going down hills and obviously when you need to use the brakes.

On my 140 odd Km commute I will generate only about 400 watt hrs of energy, yes it all adds up but it makes no difference to range, that would only run 55 watt x 2 halogen headlights for under 4 hrs for example.

unkel · 02-02-2017 9:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder does the Ioniq really have 28-30 kwh or more ?

You might have a bit of a point. Didn't spot this before but in his comment below the clip where he proves that the Ioniq can indeed charge at 70kW (as claimed by Hyundai), Bjørn Nyland states:

"I believe the car has the same battery as Kia Soul EV which is a 30.5 kWh"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3gJ8fWW5g

02-02-2017 9:19pm

Well I suppose that's one of knowing by using the fast chargers to tell you the kwh thought I don't know if that's kwh delivered or consumed.

So probably 30 Kwh and 28 usable , that's remarkable if the Ioniq has 200 kms range at 100 Kph on 28 Kwh.

unkel · 02-02-2017 9:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

if the Ioniq has 200 kms range at 100 Kph on 28 Kwh.

Far, far better than that. It has a proven range of 220km at 110km/h. Google it, shouldn't be hard to find.

A few min google shows that maybe Nyland was wrong about the batteries being the same though, looks like they are made by different companies. Ioniq battery is LG-Chem.

02-02-2017 9:46pm

unkel wrote: »

maybe Nyland was wrong about the batteries being the same though, looks like they are made by different companies. Ioniq battery is LG-Chem.

Batteries being the same as what , don't get you ?

cros13 · 02-02-2017 10:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Batteries being the same as what , don't get you ?

Bjorn's not great at being specific on some of the technical details for EVs he's not familiar with.

In his video he said the Ioniq has the same 30kWh as the Leaf, but he kind of flubbed it a bit. English not being his first language and all.

My sources in Hyundai back before the launch were telling me it was a 30kWh LG Chem pack with quote "room for expansion, both physically and in density".

unkel · 02-02-2017 10:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Batteries being the same as what , don't get you ?

Did you not read my post before that?

Nyland reckoned the Ioniq battery is the same as the 30.5kW battery in the Kia Soul. But it looks like he is wrong.

unkel · 02-02-2017 10:44pm

cros13 wrote: »

My sources in Hyundai back before the launch were telling me it was a 30kWh LG Chem pack

In the above clip he charges from 10% to 100% and charges 25.54kWh, so (100%/90%) * 25.54 = 28.38kWh ( 100% full and usuable), so total capacity of about 30kWh would be consistent with what your sources were telling you

What / who are those sources BTW?

New Zoe, new wart?

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