Israeli PM Netanyahu backs pardon for manslaughter soldier

ShowMeTheCash · 04-01-2017 8:28pm #1

So this was on the News today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38512699

The footage comes after to two Palestinian terrorist had been shot after an attack. While one man was immobilized on the ground but still clearly alive an Israeli solider approaches, cocks his gun and proceeds to essentially execute him on the street.

Just some points:

Mr Netanyahu issued his call on Facebook: "I support giving Elor Azaria a pardon."
Also according to the channel 5 news.
2/3 of Israeli's according to polls think Sgt Elor Azaria should of been Pardoned.

Sgt Elor Azaria was found guilty - I think the footage could not of been seen any other way but had this footage not of emerged I doubt the verdict would of been the same, in fact I doubt there would even of been an inquiry.

Is Israel a terrorist state?

gizmo555 · 04-01-2017 8:37pm

The court found as a fact that the man Azaria killed posed no threat to him or anyone else. For Netanyahu to say Azaria should be pardoned is to say that any Israeli soldier should be allowed to kill wounded and defenceless prisoners with impunity.

blackpearl · 06-01-2017 7:06pm

gizmo555 wrote: »

The court found as a fact that the man Azaria killed posed no threat to him or anyone else. For Netanyahu to say Azaria should be pardoned is to say that any Israeli soldier should be allowed to kill wounded and defenceless prisoners with impunity.

Is that not what hes been saying this years

HensVassal · 06-01-2017 7:21pm

So effectively summary execution is now legal in that armpit of a country. The usual apologists will scream about how if you are appalled by this then you are somehow a terrorist supporter and should go join Al-Nusra or some crap.

thejourney · 07-01-2017 5:30pm

HensVassal wrote: »

So effectively summary execution is now legal in that armpit of a country. The usual apologists will scream about how if you are appalled by this then you are somehow a terrorist supporter and should go join Al-Nusra or some crap.

Great Point

The soldier seen the man as a treat and used his weapon through his training. The two men were trying to kill him for god sake, what would you expect??

SkinnyBuddha · 08-01-2017 12:11am

thejourney wrote: »

Great Point

Your understanding of english ain't the best is it :rolleyes:

hatrickpatrick · 08-01-2017 6:34pm

I met a young Israeli woman on holiday some years ago, she had just finished her mandatory military service and was travelling the world having done so. Interestingly, she told me that young people (millennials and to an extent Gen Y) despise Bibi and his bullsh!t, they regard him as deliberately inflaming and baiting for no reason other than essentially a dick measuring competition with the rest of the world's politicians. Apparently even youths who would be right wing with regard to the Palestinians still feel that Netanyahu is an annoyance and that he's essentially a bit of a troll, causing trouble needlessly.

According to her, Israel suffers from the same problem most of the world suffers from, which is that young people, although opinionated, just don't tend to vote in large numbers. Makes you wonder though, what kind of ideological changes are coming down the line for Israel, assuming (a) that her sample of this generation is representative, (b) they don't radically change their views on antagonism vs co-operation in foreign policy as they age, and (c) that as they age, they do begin to vote and engage politically.

Could be a rather abrupt shift if what she was saying holds any water.

Inquitus · 08-01-2017 6:56pm

Mandatory voting should be a staple of all democracies imo the Aussies have this one right.

Nody · 08-01-2017 7:35pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Mandatory voting should be a staple of all democracies imo the Aussies have this one right.

Peru does it as well with a cash penalty if you fail to vote even if you're living outside the country. Personally if there's the possibility to post vote a month in advance sent out to everyone I'd be all for it in general as then you really don't have an excuse not to vote (even if it's to vote blank in protest against all parties).

recedite · 08-01-2017 8:44pm

Another Palestinian killed today.
Once the lorry had stopped, the driver "posed no threat to anyone else".
I wonder if the guy who shot him will be put on trial, or given a medal.

Gatling · 08-01-2017 8:52pm

recedite wrote: »

Another Palestinian killed today.
Once the lorry had stopped, the driver "posed no threat to anyone else".
I wonder if the guy who shot him will be put on trial, or given a medal.

Should the headline not be 4 isrealie killed in terror attack

johnnyskeleton · 08-01-2017 9:02pm

recedite wrote: »

Another Palestinian killed today.
Once the lorry had stopped, the driver "posed no threat to anyone else".
I wonder if the guy who shot him will be put on trial, or given a medal.

Mod note:

This is a highly misleading respresentation of the article. Please read the charter before posting again and note the requirmed standards and necessity to cite a source.

Timberrrrrrrr · 08-01-2017 9:06pm

thejourney wrote: »

Great Point

The soldier seen the man as a treat and used his weapon through his training. The two men were trying to kill him for god sake, what would you expect??

Presuming you meant threat?

Please explain how an unarmed man lying on his stomach could possibly be a threat? Have you seen the video of this murder?

recedite · 08-01-2017 9:10pm

Gatling wrote: »

Should the headline not be 4 isrealie killed in terror attack

Well, yes but I was sort of paraphrasing the second post in this thread. I have no sympathy for the driver. I'm sure he didn't expect to receive any mercy himself either, when he decided to embark on this "mission".

thejourney · 08-01-2017 10:21pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Presuming you meant threat?

Please explain how an unarmed man lying on his stomach could possibly be a threat? Have you seen the video of this murder?

Please explain why a man armed with a knife who tried to kill two Israeli men is not a threat?

gizmo555 · 08-01-2017 10:43pm

thejourney wrote: »

Please explain why a man armed with a knife who tried to kill two Israeli men is not a threat?

As the court which convicted Azaria found, at the time he was shot he posed no threat to anyone and it rejected defence arguments that he did. It also noted that when Azaria was questioned immediately after the killing, he made no such claim.

Timberrrrrrrr · 08-01-2017 11:09pm

thejourney wrote: »

Please explain why a man armed with a knife who tried to kill two Israeli men is not a threat?

You said the soldier seen the man as a threat, how is a (now) unarmed man lying in a prone position a threat to an armed soldier?

thejourney · 10-01-2017 7:30pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You said the soldier seen the man as a threat, how is a (now) unarmed man lying in a prone position a threat to an armed soldier?

The man tried to kill two men with a knife. He obviously posed a threat such as attacking again and was mental.

Its not like he was just standing at a bus stop and was put on the ground and then shot. He obviously knew that attempting to murder two men could leave to being killed. What an act of madness to try and kill two men.

I see the president of the country has stepped in to pardon the man in an obvious case miscarriage of justice.

You can't train a man to kill a threat, and then punish him when he kills a threat.

Timberrrrrrrr · 10-01-2017 8:23pm

thejourney wrote: »

The man tried to kill two men with a knife. He obviously posed a threat such as attacking again and was mental.

Its not like he was just standing at a bus stop and was put on the ground and then shot. He obviously knew that attempting to murder two men could leave to being killed. What an act of madness to try and kill two men.

I see the president of the country has stepped in to pardon the man in an obvious case miscarriage of justice.

You can't train a man to kill a threat, and then punish him when he kills a threat.

But he wasn't

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinian-filmed-israeli-soldier-shooting-disarmed-man-abdel-fattah-al-sharif-dead-hebron-death-a6987341.html

The footage shows him lying incapacitated in the middle of the road, moving his head listlessly from side to side as a crowd of soldiers, paramedics and armed settlers move around him, appearing to make no attempts to check his condition.

But there will always be a few on here who will claim extrajudicial killings of Palestinian people is justified, soldier should be hung for war crimes.

thejourney · 11-01-2017 2:58am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But he wasn't

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinian-filmed-israeli-soldier-shooting-disarmed-man-abdel-fattah-al-sharif-dead-hebron-death-a6987341.html

But there will always be a few on here who will claim extrajudicial killings of Palestinian people is justified, soldier should be hung for war crimes.

So just to be clear your telling me here that the Palestinian was innocent?:eek:

nhunter100 · 11-01-2017 3:09am

thejourney wrote:

So just to be clear your telling me here that the Palestinian was innocent?

No, he is telling you that the Palestinian posed no threat to the soldiers when he was laying on the ground immobile prior to being murdered by the soldier.

Timberrrrrrrr · 11-01-2017 9:37am

thejourney wrote: »

So just to be clear your telling me here that the Palestinian was innocent?:eek:

He was guilty of a crime

He was then murdered in cold blood with no trial, extrajudicial killings are a war crime.

thejourney · 11-01-2017 12:30pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He was guilty of a crime

He was then murdered in cold blood with no trial, extrajudicial killings are a war crime.

Wrong, Not in the case of terrorism. Sometimes a trial is not possible. Hardly a war crime

Well if its a war crime like you say, then why he not being brought to the international court of justice?

Nody · 11-01-2017 3:29pm

thejourney wrote: »

Wrong, Not in the case of terrorism. Sometimes a trial is not possible. Hardly a war crime

Well if its a war crime like you say, then why he not being brought to the international court of justice?

Because the military court in Israel already found him guilty; the internation court of justice is only used in case there are concerns over the local courts not being unbiased enough to deal with it.

Timberrrrrrrr · 11-01-2017 8:49pm

thejourney wrote: »

Wrong, Not in the case of terrorism. Sometimes a trial is not possible. Hardly a war crime

Well if its a war crime like you say, then why he not being brought to the international court of justice?

Shooting an unarmed person while they are helpless on the ground is murder in any civilised country.

rockatansky · 11-01-2017 8:54pm

thejourney wrote: »

Wrong, Not in the case of terrorism.
?

Who do you think you are, Donald Trump?? Just because you believe something is wrong in your head, doesn't make it so in the real world.

ShowMeTheCash · 12-01-2017 12:30am

thejourney wrote: »

So just to be clear your telling me here that the Palestinian was innocent?:eek:

Did you actually watch the video?

There comes a point where you cannot defend the indefensible.

For me what was alarming is how it happened, almost like protocol, was not frantic or admits any real panic.

You want to talk about "innocent"? I don't actually know what you mean?

You may call this guy a Terrorist but I asked the question is Israel a terrorist state? If it could be argued they are, was this guy still a terrorist

Looking at the poll of the Gaza death tool in 2014.
Palestinians killed in 2014 approx 2100 of which approx 1500 civilians
Israelis killed in 2014 approx 66 of which approx 5 civilians,

end of the road · 12-01-2017 6:20pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Is Israel a terrorist state?

yes. it breaks nearly every international law on an ongoing basis.

Inquitus wrote: »

Mandatory voting should be a staple of all democracies imo the Aussies have this one right.

it really shouldn't. australia doesn't have it right as such a law is undemocratic and while it keeps this rule in place it is not a true democracy

thejourney wrote: »

The man tried to kill two men with a knife. He obviously posed a threat such as attacking again and was mental.

Its not like he was just standing at a bus stop and was put on the ground and then shot. He obviously knew that attempting to murder two men could leave to being killed. What an act of madness to try and kill two men.

I see the president of the country has stepped in to pardon the man in an obvious case miscarriage of justice.

You can't train a man to kill a threat, and then punish him when he kills a threat.

you can when he does not operate within the rules. the courts found him guilty for a good reason, he was guilty of murder. no miscarriage of justice here.

Mr.Micro · 12-01-2017 6:59pm

gizmo555 wrote: »

The court found as a fact that the man Azaria killed posed no threat to him or anyone else. For Netanyahu to say Azaria should be pardoned is to say that any Israeli soldier should be allowed to kill wounded and defenceless prisoners with impunity.

Agreed.

So long then as Netanyahu does not mind everyone from all sides doing the same. In other words do as you like. No wonder no progress is ever made with the problems between Israel and The Palestinians, with the likes of Netanyahu in power.

Israeli PM Netanyahu backs pardon for manslaughter soldier

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