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Kovalev v Ward Discussion thread

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Comments

  • #182
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,742 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    pac_man wrote: »
    Probably influenced by the showboating as by showboating you're portraying yourself to be in control but the judges should be able to see past that. Funny that he was doing this in the 10th

    https://twitter.com/AgainstTRopes/status/801114526590517248

    And for me it all boils down to Ward never looking in control. Can debate the result till the cows come home. This rd, that rd. My view based off 36 minutes was that Ward rarely looked the boss, in control or comfortable. SK looked smoother, more controlling and more the boss. Ward getting the win was wrong. I have seen worse decisions, but to me this was the wrong verdict. Anyway, SK likely would have had to really dominate in order to get the verdict considering the judges were all from America.


  • #183
    Burial.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭Burial.


    Kovalev more authoritative and more the boss I can side with, but smoother f*ck no. He was getting very sloppy down the straight. Which boils back to the body attack which clearly took the steam out of him and his punches. But I watched a different fight altogether it seems and this body attack never happened...

    I agree tho we'll only be debating until we burn out. Let's just hope to rematch happens sharpish and puts this fight to bed.


  • #184
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,742 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    pac_man wrote: »

    In terms of "looking the boss", I'm not sure what that means in terms of scoring a fight. Do you penalise a counterpuncher because he's on the backfoot?

    Well I certainly don't praise a counterpuncher who is not countering whilst on the back foot, and for me Ward spent too much time like this.


  • #185
    StringerBell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,493 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    How do you not know what that means in terms of scoring a fight? Surely you are watching long enough to know

    A. You score for ring generalship
    B. You score for punches landed, be they front foot or back foot

    Also, not directed to you, is it really going to be claimed that even despite, other, influences on how a judge scores a round, that showmanship, crowd reaction and portraying control has never swayed judges before into making an error giving a round?

    SK has actually enhanced his reputation with me for one following the fight as I thought Ward would school him, but he just kept coming, bringing the pressure and showed real heart. Both men showed a lot of heart and their class, cancelled each other out a lot but great to see two guys at the top of their game go at it.


    Edit: In case there is anybody unsure of how you judge a boxing match

    A. Effective aggression
    B. Defence
    C. Ring generalship
    D. Clean and hard punching

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • #186
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,742 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Different point here. But anyone else think the super 6 Ward would have done a lot better? For me that Ward was clearly better. Sharper, faster, fresher, rougher and overall more dynamic and energetic..Ward last week looked laborious and lethargic to me. Lacking that zip and dynamism from old.


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  • #187
    Henno30
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,225 ✭✭✭Henno30


    walshb wrote: »
    Different point here. But anyone else think the super 6 Ward would have done a lot better? For me that Ward was clearly better. Sharper, faster, fresher, rougher and overall more dynamic and energetic..Ward last week looked laborious and lethargic to me. Lacking that zip and dynamism from old.

    I think he has clearly deteriorated. Significantly slower in my opinion. As an analogy, I think he has gone from something like 135 lb Mayweather to end of career 147 lb Mayweather during his layoff. All the things you mention, the dynamism, the energy, the sharpness, don't look to be where they once were.

    You could make the argument that the extra weight is the issue here. But I think he is just a physically slower athlete.


  • #188
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,742 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Henno30 wrote: »
    I think he has clearly deteriorated. Significantly slower in my opinion. As an analogy, I think he has gone from something like 135 lb Mayweather to end of career 147 lb Mayweather during his layoff. All the things you mention, the dynamism, the energy, the sharpness, don't look to be where they once were.

    You could make the argument that the extra weight is the issue here. But I think he is just a physically slower athlete.

    I was considering the extra weight, but it's only 7 lbs, and he was at 178 lbs in Athens. I just think that he's not the same specimen of recent years compared to his mid to late 20s...

    The fight to me showed him being of no real concern or worry to SK. I'd say SK himself was somewhat surprised how little a threat Ward was. Like I alluded to before, it was SK who looked the boss, the threat, and ultimately the winner.


  • #189
    nacho libre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,133 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    What this fight showed to me is Ward has declined in recent years. I dare say he would not have got tagged like that in the second round back when he outclassed Kessler. This is not to take away from Kovalev, who proved against Hopkins he is not just a big puncher. I felt kolavev just about shaded this,Ward did come back into it from the fifth, but i still had him losing two of the last seven rounds. Also Kovalvev did well on the inside,contrary to people expectations, Ward was not able to bully him like with his previous opponents.


  • #190
    SHOVELLER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭SHOVELLER


    HBO just showed the whole fight before the Lomachenko fight.

    Ward was better conditioned and it does look like the judges were influenced by the crowd's reaction to Ward's shots.

    My original thought on the decision stand.

    5-1 at half way with Ward winning rounds 7 & 9. Cant see Ward winning ten and the last two rounds were much of a muchness.

    The judges gave Kovalev one round in total for the second half of the fight. That and the UD is simply wrong.

    If any of you here get a chance to watch the whole fight again please do so.


  • #191
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,742 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    SHOVELLER wrote: »

    Ward was better conditioned

    What made you think that? Ward's pace seemed to remain the same throughout. SK for me was no less energetic than Ward at any stage during the fight, and I think he finished stronger too.


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  • #192
    StringerBell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,493 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Ward never pushed the pace at all, I think the plan was to wait tire SK got tired, but that didn't happen either to any great extent, he had a couple of periods where he was clearly tiring but he fought through it and came back on strong again.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • #193
    SHOVELLER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭SHOVELLER


    walshb wrote: »
    What made you think that? Ward's pace seemed to remain the same throughout. SK for me was no less energetic than Ward at any stage during the fight, and I think he finished stronger too.

    From being there. Kovalev did tire coming down the straight while yes Ward's pace seemed to remain the same. Hence Ward was better conditioned.


  • #194
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,742 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    SHOVELLER wrote: »
    From being there. Kovalev did tire coming down the straight while yes Ward's pace seemed to remain the same. Hence Ward was better conditioned.

    I didn't really see that, plus wouldn't it be more that he managed his pace/conditioning better? SK gave a bit more in effort in my view.

    Being there and watching on tv are the same, unless you are right up at ringside where you can smell the action. And if you were far away then it's not near as good as watching on tv.


  • #195
    SHOVELLER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭SHOVELLER


    walshb wrote: »
    I didn't really see that, plus wouldn't it be more that he managed his pace/conditioning better? SK gave a bit more in effort in my view.

    Being there and watching on tv are the same, unless you are right up at ringside where you can smell the action. And if you were far away then it's not near as good as watching on tv.

    Kovalev was my winner for sure.

    Couldnt disagree more about your last paragraph. TV doesnt catch everything plus you dont have to listen to biased commentary.

    Plus if you got to a fight you can always stay out in the concession stands and watch it on tv there or the big screen over the fighters!


  • #196
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,742 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    SHOVELLER wrote: »
    Couldnt disagree more about your last paragraph. TV doesnt catch everything plus you dont have to listen to biased commentary.

    !

    I am not claiming that tv catches everything. I am saying that if you are at the back of the hall how clear are you seeing things? I'd rather watch on a screen, whether it be tv or screen at the venue than being far from the actual fight.

    Now, up close to the ring, yes I can understand this maybe offering a better view and experience.


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