The Dons

howiya · 31-10-2016 11:18AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Do all those who have no problem with what happened, would you feel ok if your club upped and left and or is just that the thousands of Wimbledon fans don't count? Not glamorous enough?

Sad.

This is an Irish website. I suspect any poster that supports an English team doesn't actually care where they are from or play. They would still be as disconnected if "their" club up and left to go somewhere else.

Zebra3 · 31-10-2016 12:09PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Had Wimbledon FC stuck around South London its likely they would be back to where they were in the 70s, no league.

They had no ground and had been in Palace for over a decade.

They tried many times to get a deal done locally but none worked, whose fault that was I don't know.

Without a ground they were dead, and in 2000 they were out of the EPL so that carrot for any investor was gone too.

The only similar situation of a small market team making a rise from non league to the top flight is Wigan, but the huge difference is that Wigan had a ground and an owner that could cover the losses.

At the end of the day football is a business and the owners did what they had to do to save the business.

I'm not sure if it would happen again to be honest.
There are very few places in England not occupied by a football league team, and even the smaller clubs now have stadiums that are well fit for purpose and future proffed for expansion

Well why not just keep trying instead of allowing another town to steal their team?

You actually think that MK Dons are the same club as Wimbledon FC?

Clubs need to be run as a business to an extent in that they need to be viable but they are not just another business. Sad that so many fail to see that.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 31-10-2016 12:17PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well why not just keep trying instead of allowing another town to steal their team?

You actually think that MK Dons are the same club as Wimbledon FC?

Clubs need to be run as a business to an extent in that they need to be viable but they are not just another business. Sad that so many fail to see that.

They are just another business though.

Clubs that are owned by fans are not just a business but clubs that can be bought and sold by anybody are just another business with a sports team attached to it.If fans care so much then they should cobble together money and bought shareholding in clubs so they can have a say in what happens to them.

If anything what happened to Wimbledon worked out much better in the long run as they now have their own clubs owned by the fans and they can have a genuine say in what happens to it.

31-10-2016 01:51PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well why not just keep trying instead of allowing another town to steal their team?

You actually think that MK Dons are the same club as Wimbledon FC?

Clubs need to be run as a business to an extent in that they need to be viable but they are not just another business. Sad that so many fail to see that.

They tried for years to find a solution, they had to stop at some stage, the alternative was to go bust sooner or later.

They looked on as the likes of Boro, Sunderland, Derby, Bolton, Stoke, Millwall, Oxford etc etc all built new grounds.

They would never be the target of a rich take over as they had no ground as an asset.

Wimbledon FC were no longer viable in South London, MK are viable where they are.

Corholio · 31-10-2016 02:16PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

They tried for years to find a solution, they had to stop at some stage, the alternative was to go bust sooner or later.

They looked on as the likes of Boro, Sunderland, Derby, Bolton, Stoke, Millwall, Oxford etc etc all built new grounds.

They would never be the target of a rich take over as they had no ground as an asset.

Wimbledon FC were no longer viable in South London, MK are viable where they are.

MK were viable because of the Ikea and Asda deals. The stadium and team would not have been there had it not been part of the package. Winkelman needed a club already in the league to move to MK to shake hands with Asda and Ikea to build in the town.

31-10-2016 02:34PM

Corholio wrote: »

MK were viable because of the Ikea and Asda deals. The stadium and team would not have been there had it not been part of the package. Winkelman needed a club already in the league to move to MK to shake hands with Asda and Ikea to build in the town.

Why is that relevant ?

Every stadium built in the last 25 years has had some sort of commercial or residential aspect to it.
Why would that be any different with MK ?

Had a option been available in Merton with Asda and IKEA involved then maybe Wimbledon FC would still be in Merton today, but it didn't and they aren't.

Captain Havoc · 31-10-2016 02:38PM

If the the Dublin Dons had of gone ahead how many people here would have season tickets or go regularly enough to matches? I know I would.

Father Hernandez · 31-10-2016 02:52PM

Captain Havoc wrote: »

If the the Dublin Dons had of gone ahead how many people here would have season tickets or go regularly enough to matches? I know I would.

It would have been mental if it happened.

I'd like to think I'd have become a supporter of them.

Would have been awful for the LOI though.

Richard Hillman · 31-10-2016 03:34PM

I think it would have been beneficial to Irish football. We would have had a professional non-fai academy which would have been the training ground for Irish football.

The LOI wouldn't have changed much. Dublin Don's would have been the official excuse why Premier Division Clubs were getting 1-2k at games every week instead of the Premier League/Media.

The FAI would have a ready made excuse for their failures though.

On reflection, it's pretty sad that it didn't happen. Small national leagues have no future in a globalised world.

31-10-2016 04:04PM

Paully D wrote: »

Anyone with in-depth knowledge of the Wimbledon -> MK Dons situation want to give a breakdown of what actually happened back then?

I know that they couldn't seem to find a suitable location/site for a ground and subsequently moved to Milton Keynes, but is that the crux of the matter? I'm sure it is far less simplistic than that. Why did the independent commission give them permission to relocate despite opposition from seemingly everyone? Did many fans keep supporting the team in their move to Milton Keynes? MK Dons have averaged anywhere between 8,000-13,000 over the years - where have all these fans comes from? Just local people wanting to watch live football or would they still get a lot of people from Wimbledon that would travel to their games?

Any good articles or documentaries on the topic?

Cheers.

Here is a link to some stuff, now admittedly it comes from MK but it does link to real Wimbledon FC documents such as letters to the council AGM minutes etc

http://mkdsa.co.uk/index.php/2015-09-07-22-49-10/facts-of-the-move

Ideas of a move to MK were around since the 80s, not just with Wimbledon but other teams also it seems

31-10-2016 04:06PM

Father Hernandez wrote: »

It would have been mental if it happened.

I'd like to think I'd have become a supporter of them.

Would have been awful for the LOI though.

There would be far less sympathy for Wimbledon FC fans here had they moved to Dublin.

Captain Havoc · 31-10-2016 04:14PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Small national leagues have no future in a globalised world.

I really disagree with that, small national league teams are an actual community as opposed to a virtual one that you get with big leagues. People go to games and watch in smaller leagues. Football is a global game but it's also a local game. I'm not trying to say there's anything wrong with watching the big leagues, it's obviously faster and more skillful but with leagues like what we have here in Ireland, you still get entertainment but you are living it, when you call the ref a w****r, he might hear you.

31-10-2016 05:16PM

Captain Havoc wrote: »

If the the Dublin Dons had of gone ahead how many people here would have season tickets or go regularly enough to matches? I know I would.

It would be full of Irish 'away' fans for United and Liverpool. The interest with the bandwagon would wane after a few seasons and they'd be relegated and then nobody would go because the standard wouldn't be good enough.

Zebra3 · 02-11-2016 05:29PM

People saying they'd become season ticket holders of a manufactured franchise.

Someone give Red Bull a shout.

02-11-2016 08:57PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

People saying they'd become season ticket holders of a manufactured franchise.

Someone give Red Bull a shout.

Yep

But this is the 21st century, (actually the proposed Wimbledon move was the 20th century but anyway) and a brand new top flight club in Dublin would be a success.

I have no allegiance to any soccer club in Ireland, Britain or world wide, but I like the sport, I'd follow them.

Also people need to stop looking at sport in a 19th bottom up sense.

In the future sports clubs will be built from the top down, be that merged teams, a restructured set of Europe leagues etc etc.

SantryRed · 02-11-2016 09:52PM

I actually don't think a top flight football club in Dublin would be a success.

They wouldn't have the pulling power to become top four and would be mid table at best. People aren't going to give up supporting who they do just to support a manufactured club.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 02-11-2016 10:12PM

SantryRed wrote: »

I actually don't think a top flight football club in Dublin would be a success.

They wouldn't have the pulling power to become top four and would be mid table at best. People aren't going to give up supporting who they do just to support a manufactured club.

Lots of people would go to games as an event though and youngsters would probably start supporting them and they'd become the fan base of the club.

02-11-2016 10:13PM

SantryRed wrote: »

I actually don't think a top flight football club in Dublin would be a success.

They wouldn't have the pulling power to become top four and would be mid table at best. People aren't going to give up supporting who they do just to support a manufactured club.

But what about the ones, like myself, who have no real affiliation with any particular club but just like the sport.

In a city the size of Dublin that may be sustainable.

dundalkfc10 · 03-11-2016 01:24AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But what about the ones, like myself, who have no real affiliation with any particular club but just like the sport.

In a city the size of Dublin that may be sustainable.

Go watch Rovers, Pats, Bohs, Shels or any of the other Dublin clubs maybe?

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-11-2016 05:10AM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Go watch Rovers, Pats, Bohs, Shels or any of the other Dublin clubs maybe?

Why would you go to watch one of those teams if you have no connection to them.

civis_liberalis · 03-11-2016 05:38AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Why would you go to watch one of those teams if you have no connection to them.

03-11-2016 06:33AM

So a club is formed in Dublin and it would enter the leagues in a country exiting the EU, where one club would move down to enable it enter the top division?

For extra popularity they should put a unicorn in goal...

03-11-2016 07:43AM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Go watch Rovers, Pats, Bohs, Shels or any of the other Dublin clubs maybe?

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Why would you go to watch one of those teams if you have no connection to them.

What connection would you have to Dublin Franchise FC?

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-11-2016 08:22AM

Omackeral wrote: »

What connection would you have to Dublin Franchise FC?

None.

But if there was a a Dublin Franchise playing in the premier league you would go because you were going to a premier league match and the younger fans would then become the core fans base with a genuine connection because they had been going all their lives.

There is no glamour in going to watch small clubs play each other in a small ground with barely anybody in attendance, it's much more attractive proposition going to watch a match in a big league featuring star names.

Obviously it would never happen but if there was a Dublin franchise in the English Premier league it would almost certainly be successful in attracting fans.Look at Leinster, Munster,Connacht and Ulster in rugby.All effectively franchises but with a good competition to play in they have been able to attract a fan base.Something similar in soccer would be even more successful.

I honestly think some people believe that there must be a degree of misery and punishment involved in supporting a team rather than it simply being a hobby and an enjoyable to spend a day out which is pretty much what it would be for a lot of people.

03-11-2016 08:31AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

None.

But if there was a a Dublin Franchise playing in the premier league you would go because you were going to a premier league match and the younger fans would then become the core fans base with a genuine connection because they had been going all their lives.

There is no glamour in going to watch small clubs play each other in a small ground with barely anybody in attendance, it's much more attractive proposition going to watch a match in a big league featuring star names.

Obviously it would never happen but if there was a Dublin franchise in the English Premier league it would almost certainly be successful in attracting fans.Look at Leinster, Munster,Connacht and Ulster in rugby.All effectively franchises but with a good competition to play in they have been able to attract a fan base.Something similar in soccer would be even more successful.

I honestly think some people believe that there must be a degree of misery and punishment involved in supporting a team rather than it simply being a hobby and an enjoyable to spend a day out which is pretty much what it would be for a lot of people.

That's it in a nutshell.

03-11-2016 08:34AM

Deleted User wrote: »

So a club is formed in Dublin and it would enter the leagues in a country exiting the EU, where one club would move down to enable it enter the top division?

For extra popularity they should put a unicorn in goal...

No
A club would be moved from south London to Dublin and still play in the league/division they played in in south London

That was the plan, but they did not move to Dublin, they moved to Milton Keynes instead.

The Dublin plan had real traction, it was vetoed by Fifa and the FAI, but it acygot far enough to be vetoed.

03-11-2016 09:09AM

I'm just wondering what happens if the team falls down to League 1 or 2? Where's the glamour there? People aren't gonna come out to see Chesterfield as an attraction and a day out. Basically if they're not playing at the tippy top it fails.

Corholio · 03-11-2016 02:21PM

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm just wondering what happens if the team falls down to League 1 or 2? Where's the glamour there? People aren't gonna come out to see Chesterfield as an attraction and a day out. Basically if they're not playing at the tippy top it fails.

But they'll still have good toilets, that'll be the main reason they keep raking the crowds in.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-11-2016 04:11PM

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Well can you please explain why you would go to watch these teams play if you have no attachment to them i.e from the area, family ties etc.

Captain Havoc · 03-11-2016 04:19PM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Well can you please explain why you would go to watch these teams play if you have no attachment to them i.e from the area, family ties etc.

I go to matches because I want to watch live football in a stadium. Season ticket holder in Tallaght, no connections, live in kilkenny and from kilkenny.

The Dons

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