Mart Price Tracker

blue5000 · 12-10-2016 08:30AM

Lads we're all being squeezed from the top down. Abp Nenagh had a lot of under finished AA cattle this week all drawn down from Co. Louth. Cahir gets them as well. Does anyone know how many cattle that larry fella owns?

I've given away good weanlings in the mart too. Now I finish everything. More cows is not the answer when margins are tight. Farmers are there own worst enemy, when really it's supermarkets and processors margin that is the problem.

There is also 100,000 extra cattle from the dairy herd in the pipeline. Perhaps finishers could look there to source cattle instead of trying to buy continentals at fr prices in the mart?

Cavanjack · 12-10-2016 09:13AM

Muckit wrote: »

Good man legs. I should have been the one posting that link. Cattle are on the market from the get go.

You want quality cattle in roscommon. And look at the prices. It's market price.

Good cattle in roscommon ok. What were 350kg-400kg ch making?

Welding Rod · 12-10-2016 09:31AM

blue5000 wrote: »

Lads we're all being squeezed from the top down. Abp Nenagh had a lot of under finished AA cattle this week all drawn down from Co. Louth. Cahir gets them as well. Does anyone know how many cattle that larry fella owns?

I've given away good weanlings in the mart too. Now I finish everything. More cows is not the answer when margins are tight. Farmers are there own worst enemy, when really it's supermarkets and processors margin that is the problem.

There is also 100,000 extra cattle from the dairy herd in the pipeline. Perhaps finishers could look there to source cattle instead of trying to buy continentals at fr prices in the mart?

This dairy sourced beef animal will be no panacea for most finishers. Just another tool to keep down the price of quality suckler beef stock.

Dawn boss locks horns with Teagasc on carcass weight http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/dawn-boss-locks-horns-with-teagasc-on-carcass-weight-35118783.html

Bass Reeves · 12-10-2016 11:06AM

Welding Rod wrote: »

This dairy sourced beef animal will be no panacea for most finishers. Just another tool to keep down the price of quality suckler beef stock.

Dawn boss locks horns with Teagasc on carcass weight http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/dawn-boss-locks-horns-with-teagasc-on-carcass-weight-35118783.html

I think he was promoting another agenda. Teagasc propose that dairy bred cattle should be slaughtered either before the second winter at 21 months or in June after second winter idf being slaughtered off grass. The 21 month proposal would add to the autumn glut. I do not think that processors have any issue with slaughtering more cattle in June. Paul Nolans expressing an opinion about a low 300kg carcass being in funny territory would be at odds of another statement from MII that 280kg O+ carcass was quite adequate for the supermarket trade.

Reducing carcass weight would reduce the amount of beef available. It would do this in two ways lighter carcass and lower KO. The processors have got better at extracting extra steaks from the carcass's in the form of rib eye, flat iron steaks etc. He was quite clear that there was limited scope for heavy carcass's in the systems and these are only for certain niche markets.

This idea that dairy sourced animals are not as suitable for finishing is not quite true. Yes extreme HO and first cross JE's are not suitable for steer finishing as someone has to make a loss in the system. But squareish FR grading O- to O+ at 330-370kgs and beef breed progeny are more than suitable and leave a margin at a base price of 4+/Kg depending on first day cost coming onto the system.

MII is quite happy with present system we have virtually equal all round supply wuth a small glut in the autumn and a small shortage issue in June/July. The big issue is that the winter finishers now gets no premium for his product and this is where Teagasc is comming from. Is it more profitable to slaughter steers at 250-280 kg carcass or slaughter out of shed at 200kg heavier after a 100 day finishing period. At 4/kg this extra meat gives an extra 200 euro. Lets allow a price difference of 20c/kg between an October/November slaughtered 270kg bullock and the 320kg February/March slaughtered bullock.

The difference would be 300 euro. Allowing costs of 2.5/day for a weight gain of 1Kg/day would leave an extra 50 euro for other outlay such as dosing and fixed costs. You also have to remember that the AA and HE schemes pay a higher premium from November until late January so 20c/kg would in most cases be the max difference in price

What teagasc's proposal would do is force a premium added to the price for winter finishing. Becasue of that I take a lot of what PN was saying with a grain of salt.

Muckit · 12-10-2016 11:38AM

blue5000 wrote: »

Perhaps finishers could look there to source cattle instead of trying to buy continentals at fr prices in the mart?

Lads will stick to what they know until their hand is really squeezed. Only way continental weanling prices are going is down until suckler cow numbers go down and they get scarce. But the penny hasn't dropped with weanling producers yet.

As you said dairy calf numbers increasing. There wont be enough exported to offset this increase.

Selling into a flooded market. Only one way price will go.

I can't understand why a lot more lads aren't doing like yourself and finishing their own.

xabi · 12-10-2016 12:41PM

What's the benefit to farmers of having this info on mart prices? Would it be of use to have this data in real time or regularly updated? Is there any software / technology / apps out there that provide you with this or is it a hassle getting it?

Bass Reeves · 12-10-2016 01:40PM

Muckit wrote: »

Lads will stick to what they know until their hand is really squeezed. Only way continental weanling prices are going is down until suckler cow numbers go down and they get scarce. But the penny hasn't dropped with weanling producers yet.

As you said dairy calf numbers increasing. There wont be enough exported to offset this increase.

Selling into a flooded market. Only one way price will go.

I can't understand why a lot more lads aren't doing like yourself and finishing their own.

The weanling that will come under real pressure is the lighter lad. Only idiots buy + the weight. Most lads now buy at a price/kg. This idea that you can get 500+ there weight for lighter suckler weanlings is only possible when Beef prices are well above 4/kg. A 300kg weanling selling for 800 euro is making 2.66/kg. A 400 kg weanling making 900 is costing 2.25/kg. The extra weight is costing you a euro/kg. A lighter 250kg weanling could be costing up on 3/kg.

The issue with finishing is that the lads that produces the heavier weanling will ahve less to go to finish the calf. A lad producing a 400kg weanling only needs to put on 200+ kgs to get the animal into slaughter weight. If the calf is this weight in late August it may be possible to add 50 +kgs of that outside on grass and ration. this leaves 150-200kgs to be put on inside in the house. Totally different senario with a lower weight calf especially if these calves are sub 330kgs in October. You are looking at having to put on 320kgs inside or putting the animal back to grass the following spring. Some lads have the skillsets some do not.

It is like comparing suckler contenintals to suckler Hereford calves. Most lads assume from what they see in marts that these Herefords are only capable of hitting 240-300kgs off the cow. They forget to factor in that most lads using HE bulls on suclkers are calving out into April and May and that the weight of these calves is not as far behind similar late calved continentals as some assume.

patsy_mccabe · 12-10-2016 01:58PM

leg wax wrote: »

anyone watching the sale in roscommon mart now http://myipstream.com/mart.html

Had a quick look last night when I read this post. Only watched one weanling, a 415Kg BB bull, an E grade. Was making €1050 and the guy refused. He drove the same bidder up to €1200 before he sold. That was some going. Just goes to show real lack of competition for these export types.

leg wax · 12-10-2016 03:42PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Had a quick look last night when I read this post. Only watched one weanling, a 415Kg BB bull, an E grade. Was making €1050 and the guy refused. He drove the same bidder up to €1200 before he sold. That was some going. Just goes to show real lack of competition for these export types.

ya saw him, maxwell bought him, he was still worth 200 more, if legs had been there he would have had to go to 1310 to get him

Muckit · 12-10-2016 05:30PM

€1270 was final price on that blue bull

blue5000 · 12-10-2016 05:51PM

Bass another thing PN hasn't told us is that it costs the same to slaughter a 400kg carcass as it does to slaughter a 300kg carcass, the Brazalian lads on the line don't get paid more for killing heavier cattle than lighter cattle.

Welding Rod · 12-10-2016 05:57PM

blue5000 wrote: »

Bass another thing PN hasn't told us is that it costs the same to slaughter a 400kg carcass as it does to slaughter a 300kg carcass, the Brazalian lads on the line don't get paid more for killing heavier cattle than lighter cattle.

Devils advocate here. Surely there is a lot less cutting and boning time required for a small versus bid carcass!

Bass Reeves · 12-10-2016 06:16PM

blue5000 wrote: »

Bass another thing PN hasn't told us is that it costs the same to slaughter a 400kg carcass as it does to slaughter a 300kg carcass, the Brazalian lads on the line don't get paid more for killing heavier cattle than lighter cattle.

Welding Rod wrote: »

Devils advocate here. Surely there is a lot less cutting and boning time required for a small versus bid carcass!

Blue is right cattle go up the line to be slaughtered at the same rate regardless of weight. AFAIK the deboning rate is a set price for forequarters and hind quarters regardless of size or weight.

amacca · 12-10-2016 07:26PM

Lads...I have a bunch of approx 550kg up to maybe 620kg 26month old animals would ye reckon Id be better letting them off to a factory and take my chances than sell in a mart at this stage?

Angus/Hereford, not quality assured......a little unsure of the grades, not overfat imo.

whelan2 · 12-10-2016 07:38PM

blue5000 wrote: »

Lads we're all being squeezed from the top down. Abp Nenagh had a lot of under finished AA cattle this week all drawn down from Co. Louth. Cahir gets them as well. Does anyone know how many cattle that larry fella owns?

I've given away good weanlings in the mart too. Now I finish everything. More cows is not the answer when margins are tight. Farmers are there own worst enemy, when really it's supermarkets and processors margin that is the problem.

There is also 100,000 extra cattle from the dairy herd in the pipeline. Perhaps finishers could look there to source cattle instead of trying to buy continentals at fr prices in the mart?

Ah they'd be good cattle coming down from Louth

blue5000 · 12-10-2016 07:45PM

How many has he there?

whelan2 · 12-10-2016 07:53PM

blue5000 wrote: »

How many has he there?

No idea. Dont know much of him tbh

Bass Reeves · 12-10-2016 07:58PM

amacca wrote: »

Lads...I have a bunch of approx 550kg up to maybe 620kg 26month old animals would ye reckon Id be better letting them off to a factory and take my chances than sell in a mart at this stage?

Angus/Hereford, not quality assured......a little unsure of the grades, not overfat imo.

If you are not QA'a you are better off in the mart. Non QA cattle are really cut on the base, as well lighter cattle will not grade or weigh usually unless they have been fed a lot meal.

What part of the country are you and how much are they making there.

Welding Rod · 12-10-2016 08:10PM

blue5000 wrote: »

How many has he there?

Everything in the Cooley Peninsula is counted three or four times -:)

Bass Reeves · 12-10-2016 08:19PM

blue5000 wrote: »

How many has he there?

I have hear a story that he has a shed that is 700 metres long somewhere. Just to put that in context that is 140 pens long. A lot of finishers go for 2 sets of pens either side of the passageway. That would be 560 pens. Such a shed would be capable of holding 7K cattle

Robson99 · 12-10-2016 08:28PM

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I love the lad's that finish cattle immediately turn on the suckler guy when things aren't looking good. "You should take/lose more money on those animals so I can make some money on them." why don't you make more noise about who you sell your cattle to not giving enough rather than expect the man who carries most of the risk and most of the workload to pick up the tab.If you don't want to buy them for what there worth then don't. Whenever I go to the mart and there's no serious buyers there I end up bringing animals home because I refuse to just give them away at a loss.
I'm not so naive as to think that falling factory prices won't knock the weanling or store trade but there's always a market for high quality animals (around here anyway) and that's what I try to produce.

If I don't get enough I don't sell. If only more finishers did the same.

+1 on the brexit issue. Tough times ahead for beef.

The market will fall for high quality animals as well... dont think it won't.
Its not as simple for finishers not to sell. Weight limits, age limits fat cover etc can come again you very quick.
Someone suggested that the suckler men would be better finishing their own rather than selling as weanlings / stores. I would say a lot of them wouldn't try it a second year when they would see how little is out of it at present
I have sympathy with all farmers. But at times they are their own worst enemy's. Giving out about the price of beef and then paying €3.00 per kilo for 300kg weanlings just doesn't add up

Welding Rod · 12-10-2016 08:33PM

Robson99 wrote: »

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I love the lad's that finish cattle immediately turn on the suckler guy when things aren't looking good. "You should take/lose more money on those animals so I can make some money on them." why don't you make more noise about who you sell your cattle to not giving enough rather than expect the man who carries most of the risk and most of the workload to pick up the tab.If you don't want to buy them for what there worth then don't. Whenever I go to the mart and there's no serious buyers there I end up bringing animals home because I refuse to just give them away at a loss.
I'm not so naive as to think that falling factory prices won't knock the weanling or store trade but there's always a market for high quality animals (around here anyway) and that's what I try to produce.

If I don't get enough I don't sell. If only more finishers did the same.

+1 on the brexit issue. Tough times ahead for beef.

The market will fall for high quality animals as well... dont think it won't.
Its not as simple for finishers not to sell. Weight limits, age limits fat cover etc can come again you very quick.
Someone suggested that the suckler men would be better finishing their own rather than selling as weanlings / stores. I would say a lot of them wouldn't try it a second year when they would see how little is out of it at present
I have sympathy with all farmers. But at times they are their own worst enemy's. Giving out about the price of beef and then paying 3.00 per kilo for 300kg weanlings just doesn't add up

Maybe instead of current suckler men trying their hand at finishing, current finishers should breed their own and finish them.
Might well turn out they would be happy to pay 3 kg to the boys west of the Shannon.

Robson99 · 12-10-2016 08:35PM

Welding Rod wrote: »

Maybe instead of current suckler men trying their hand at finishing, current finishers should breed their own and finish them.
Might well turn out they would be happy to pay 3 kg to the boys west of the Shannon.

They wont need to. The dairy men will do it for them for the foreseeable future

Bass Reeves · 12-10-2016 08:44PM

Welding Rod wrote: »

Maybe instead of current suckler men trying their hand at finishing, current finishers should breed their own and finish them.
Might well turn out they would be happy to pay 3 kg to the boys west of the Shannon.

3/kg weanlings are only sustainable when Beef prices are heading for 4.5/kg and there is no weight limits and even then it is questionable. I tend to shy away from suckler weanlings too many lads just taking them off the cows and dropping them into the marts.

cute geoge · 12-10-2016 08:53PM

Robson99 wrote: »

They wont need to. The dairy men will do it for them for the foreseeable future

You would be lucky for dairy men to rear a calf to six weeks

Bass Reeves · 12-10-2016 09:10PM

cute geoge wrote: »

You would be lucky for dairy men to rear a calf to six weeks

Robson99 point is that there are 100+K more dairy calves in the pipeline each year over next two years. For the last two spring dairy farmers have put more cows to beef breed bulls that dairy bulls. Some dairy farmers sell them at 2 week more a little older. Some carry them to weanlings, more to yearling and more to 18 month old store and some even finish them. Along the way they are bought by calf to store producers or finishers.

It would be relatively easy to convert from a finishing system to a calf to beef system I did it in the past. The reason prices are under pressure is that there are 100K+ extra cattle from the dairy herd. Look on DD or in a mart. There is a lot more HE weanlings and store about. In the last week on DD lots of weanlings and stores have started to appear. Some are are bumped after week. Last year lads were taking HE&AA stores to the marts this year they are trying to sell privately.

There is a sh!t load of action out there yet.

blue5000 · 12-10-2016 09:30PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have hear a story that he has a shed that is 700 metres long somewhere. Just to put that in context that is 140 pens long. A lot of finishers go for 2 sets of pens either side of the passageway. That would be 560 pens. Such a shed would be capable of holding 7K cattle

Would that be the shed where the lads doing the last check of the cattle at night time get 0-60 mph in the jeep down the feed passage?

Bass Reeves · 12-10-2016 09:40PM

blue5000 wrote: »

Would that be the shed where the lads doing the last check of the cattle at night time get 0-60 mph in the jeep down the feed passage?

Ya could be the one, problem would be stopping it if some f@@ker had closed the gate at the other end and you did not see the bars until you were 100 metres away:eek:

amacca · 12-10-2016 10:20PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you are not QA'a you are better off in the mart. Non QA cattle are really cut on the base, as well lighter cattle will not grade or weigh usually unless they have been fed a lot meal.

What part of the country are you and how much are they making there.

Midlands, sold most in late June...wasn't over happy with the prices then either. poorer animals making close to or just over 1k, better quality up to 1200/1300.....weights ranging from 520kg up to 630kg

3.70kg seems to be the run of it in the factory but its been so long since I've went near one I don't know how to assess within what range the price for animals sent in would turn out to be.

wouldn't like to be depending on farming for a living at the moment at the scale I'm at.

**** it, Ill hold on to them for another while..., don't like giving them away and thats what I feel Id be doing right now......I have some shed space if the worst comes to the worst...might show them die hard over the christmas, tell the auctioneer they are bulmers cattle when they are being sold.

Bass Reeves · 12-10-2016 11:44PM

amacca wrote: »

Midlands, sold most in late June...wasn't over happy with the prices then either. poorer animals making close to or just over 1k, better quality up to 1200/1300.....weights ranging from 520kg up to 630kg

3.70kg seems to be the run of it in the factory but its been so long since I've went near one I don't know how to assess within what range the price for animals sent in would turn out to be.

wouldn't like to be depending on farming for a living at the moment at the scale I'm at.

**** it, Ill hold on to them for another while..., don't like giving them away and thats what I feel Id be doing right now......I have some shed space if the worst comes to the worst...might show them die hard over the christmas, tell the auctioneer they are bulmers cattle when they are being sold.

If you can carry them to Christmas I would finish them. Silage and 5-8kgs of ration will really turn them into money. It is often the mistake lads make in slaughtering or selling these type of cattle this time of year. At present will they average 975 after deductions ??? a bit less rater than a bit more.

Can you access a good 13-14% ration. Keep away from barley, a mix of maize, soya wheat and hulls costing 230/ton. 6-8kgs of that with good silage will add a 1-1.2 kg/day to them. If you can split them into two pens feed the heaviers ones 8kgs and let the lighter one tick away at 5kgs/day before Christmas the heavier ons will hit over 1300 euro and maybe a tad with it. In mid/late January the lighter ones will really come into there own maybe hitting 1450 euro.

I presuming that the heavier will hit 670 LW and there will be a base price of 3.9 pre Christmas. The lighter ones will hit that weight by mid January.

Mind you I could be wrong.

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