Mart Price Tracker

kk.man · 29-09-2016 06:46PM

50HX wrote: »

240kg CH heifer 6mnth old - 540euro

2 x lm heifers 6mths old 190kg made 520e

that was in 2 marts that i dropped into in the last week

defo on the slide

surprised whoever had the CH let her go at that - she waas lovely and square - a steal ai thought

If prime cattle are at 3.65 ish next spring the new owner will be lucky to get 750 for her...no money in her for either men

50HX · 29-09-2016 07:03PM

kk.man wrote: »

If prime cattle are at 3.65 ish next spring the new owner will be lucky to get 750 for her...no money in her for either men

i dunno...a nice square chx heifer and the right color - if she isn't making it then no weanling heifer will

300+ the weight... still isn't bad i thought...maybe i'm one of the mugs that would be buying her:D

jimmy G M · 29-09-2016 10:24PM

50HX wrote: »

i dunno...a nice square chx heifer and the right color - if she isn't making it then no weanling heifer will

300+ the weight... still isn't bad i thought...maybe i'm one of the mugs that would be buying her:D

Jez I think if i was getting €200 to keep a light weanling for the winter i'd be happy enough. Minimum amount of meal after weaning, graze outside till early November, inside on silage till early March and then away outside again.? Would she cost 60-70c per day x 120 days €85?, transport, vet, meal, others etc €30?. Outlay only €540, there's plenty others that would cost double that and leave less.

Bass will come in now and cost it down to the final cent!

Bass Reeves · 29-09-2016 11:03PM

jimmy G M wrote: »

Jez I think if i was getting €200 to keep a light weanling for the winter i'd be happy enough. Minimum amount of meal after weaning, graze outside till early November, inside on silage till early March and then away outside again.? Would she cost 60-70c per day x 120 days €85?, transport, vet, meal, others etc €30?. Outlay only €540, there's plenty others that would cost double that and leave less.

Bass will come in now and cost it down to the final cent!

Good grass and ration until mid november about 60c/day. To house an animal like that to over winter on silage and 1.5kg ration minerals etc about a euro/day for first 85 days and 65c/day for next 35 . That is costing bale silage at 23/bale.:p

Mortality and vet is the worry with animals likes that.:eek:

Bleating Lamb · 30-09-2016 06:43AM

Would nice quality Char or Limousine weanlings ( around 350 kg) be back much in price on this time last year?
Question is to anyone who has been in marts lately.Thanks.

Who2 · 30-09-2016 06:58AM

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Would nice quality Char or Limousine weanlings ( around 350 kg) be back much in price on this time last year?
Question is to anyone who has been in marts lately.Thanks.

Back at least 100.

CCM · 30-09-2016 07:07AM

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Would nice quality Char or Limousine weanlings ( around 350 kg) be back much in price on this time last year?
Question is to anyone who has been in marts lately.Thanks.

I was down 80 -100 like for like with last year . Around 3.10/kg for good yellow

Bleating Lamb · 30-09-2016 07:17AM

whelan2 wrote: »

Was in Ardee mart on Tuesday, prices have dropped alot and as 1 lad said whats the point in bringing them home as land is now wet and he could get less for them in a few weeks

When you say prices have dropped a lot is that compared to a month ago or this time last year?

Bleating Lamb · 30-09-2016 08:09AM

CCM wrote: »

I was down 80 -100 like for like with last year . Around 3.10/kg for good yellow

When you factor in the expenses against the cow it will leave a lot of poor to average quality weanlings being sold in debt then!

Wonder will ANC payments bring any bounce to trade from this weekend on?

Muckit · 30-09-2016 01:45PM

A lot of talk from suckler men. Just to bring a bit of perspective, there are a lot of finished cattle being sold in debt also.

All those store cattle that were sold last autumn autumn at big money. Finished cattle only making same money now if lucky.

Next year will be the same story, but some weanlings and stores being sold at mo are still too dear to leave a margin when they are killed.

The answer to poor weanling prices might be for lads not to sell and see can they do much better themselves with the factory agent when the time comes.

Muckit · 30-09-2016 01:48PM

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

When you factor in the expenses against the cow it will leave a lot of poor to average quality weanlings being sold in debt then!

That's if they are able to be sold. Sometimes theres nothing as dear as cheap cattle. They don't thrive and only go backwards and all you are left with is an even bigger screw.

Bass Reeves · 30-09-2016 04:34PM

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

When you factor in the expenses against the cow it will leave a lot of poor to average quality weanlings being sold in debt then!

Wonder will ANC payments bring any bounce to trade from this weekend on?

I think store will only go one way from now on. Loads of them around and no one filling sheds.

Robson99 · 30-09-2016 09:22PM

Muckit wrote: »

A lot of talk from suckler men. Just to bring a bit of perspective, there are a lot of finished cattle being sold in debt also.

All those store cattle that were sold last autumn autumn at big money. Finished cattle only making same money now if lucky.

Next year will be the same story, but some weanlings and stores being sold at mo are still too dear to leave a margin when they are killed.

Would agree that weanlings/stores are still too dear probably to the tune of €100 to €150 per head.
I know the suckler men wont want to hear that or agree with it but its the reality. Purchase stores in spring here and finish out of shed the following winter. Will be lucky to break even this year. If prices for stores dont come back a lot more then I will keep my hands in my pocket next spring. I ain't going to be keeping the suckler man and Larry happy and taking all the pain myself

Buford T. Justice XIX · 01-10-2016 07:22AM

Robson99 wrote: »

Would agree that weanlings/stores are still too dear probably to the tune of €100 to €150 per head.
I know the suckler men wont want to hear that or agree with it but its the reality. Purchase stores in spring here and finish out of shed the following winter. Will be lucky to break even this year. If prices for stores dont come back a lot more then I will keep my hands in my pocket next spring. I ain't going to be keeping the suckler man and Larry happy and taking all the pain myself

If you don't buy, won't you be in trouble tax wise from destocking?

Robson99 · 01-10-2016 07:34AM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

If you don't buy, won't you be in trouble tax wise from destocking?

Ill diverse short keep cattle, sheep etc

theaceofspies · 01-10-2016 07:41AM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

If you don't buy, won't you be in trouble tax wise from destocking?

Donkeys qualify as stock - they are a far better bet right now than cattle.

Bass Reeves · 01-10-2016 07:56AM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

If you don't buy, won't you be in trouble tax wise from destocking?

It depends on what you have your stock values at. If you have very low stock values say 500/head for stores and you normally pay 1K for them then yes you may have a liability. However if they are in at or near par then you will not have a serious tax issue.

Robson99 wrote: »

Ill diverse short keep cattle, sheep etc

Short term cattle may well be ok however you would unlucky to be paying 150/head in tax. As well an accountant can increase/reduce the value/animal of existing stock to reduce tax liability or use up tax allowances.

Fireside Solicitor · 01-10-2016 10:48AM

Might be further tax relief in the budget to allow stocking to be averaged over longer periods. Anyway Better to take the tax hit (put the money in your pension and claim and the tax relief) that goin out and buyin this end. first year were not filling the shed in 20 years +. Complete waste of time with prices where they are at - lads paying €2.80/kg last Thursday!!! Where are they going seriously???? Maybe Teagasc/IFA needs to give lessons in basic sums???

40 left to go now and am sweatin with the price and land beginning to tear up. Will pay the bills and put the money in the bank and see how the spring shapes up unless there is a drop in trade in the next month or so. Place will be like a ghost town and will be bored but better that than going broke!!

Welding Rod · 01-10-2016 11:09AM

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

Might be further tax relief in the budget to allow stocking to be averaged over longer periods. Anyway Better to take the tax hit (put the money in your pension and claim and the tax relief) that goin out and buyin this end. first year were not filling the shed in 20 years +. Complete waste of time with prices where they are at - lads paying 2.80/kg last Thursday!!! Where are they going seriously???? Maybe Teagasc/IFA needs to give lessons in basic sums???

40 left to go now and am sweatin with the price and land beginning to tear up. Will pay the bills and put the money in the bank and see how the spring shapes up unless there is a drop in trade in the next month or so. Place will be like a ghost town and will be bored but better that than going broke!!

Land in awful condition here in the west. Weaned the calves over three weeks ago to get the cows off the land. They have been inside since and a big hole made in my winter fodder stocks. Most people around me in same boat.
Finally made my mind up. Cutting cows back by minimum one third. Producing decent kind of calves to have finishers squeeze the price down as far as they can because they in turn getting squeezed by Larry and Co, is only a mugs game.
Only time Larry pays for stock is when they are scarce. Maybe we could all turn a bit of a profit if we all cut the numbers back and make the badtreuds pay well for what's left.

MIKEKC · 02-10-2016 01:10PM

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

Might be further tax relief in the budget to allow stocking to be averaged over longer periods. Anyway Better to take the tax hit (put the money in your pension and claim and the tax relief) that goin out and buyin this end. first year were not filling the shed in 20 years +. Complete waste of time with prices where they are at - lads paying €2.80/kg last Thursday!!! Where are they going seriously???? Maybe Teagasc/IFA needs to give lessons in basic sums???

40 left to go now and am sweatin with the price and land beginning to tear up. Will pay the bills and put the money in the bank and see how the spring shapes up unless there is a drop in trade in the next month or so. Place will be like a ghost town and will be bored but better that than going broke!!

Teagasc, IFA and Farmers Journal have been giving lessons in basic sums for years, problem is majority not listening

Welding Rod · 02-10-2016 01:16PM

IFA are good at the sums alright.

Robeman · 02-10-2016 02:05PM

theaceofspies wrote: »

ABP et al have now branched into the Entertainment business, namely comedy.

Have a read of this:
http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-beef-output-can-increase-by-e500m-meat-industry/

They really take fellas for fools.

From their perspective you have to agree with them. More cattle = lower prices = bigger profit.

I recenly saw a table of beef prices across Europe on line and it showed Ireland near the top. How do the countries manage to make a profit with prices even lower than ours. Are they more efficient or are their input prices lower. Its a mystery.

theaceofspies · 02-10-2016 04:41PM

Robeman wrote: »

From their perspective you have to agree with them. More cattle = lower prices = bigger profit.

I recenly saw a table of beef prices across Europe on line and it showed Ireland near the top. How do the countries manage to make a profit with prices even lower than ours. Are they more efficient or are their input prices lower. Its a mystery.

They say "“This will deliver additional employment throughout rural Ireland and can also boost producer margins and processor efficiency."

Who are they kidding?

Fireside Solicitor · 02-10-2016 05:20PM

That's true, but there are a lot of noughts to count when your paid by the IFA!!!

Wait until the current generation of us mugs die out and that will be it, large scale feedlots, forestry galore and wild bird cover all over the place for the tourists.

Europe wanted cheap food after world war 2 and that's what they have. Cheap food that most people don't value.

No ones saying it but it's easier for the policy makers to let the small farmer die out over a couple of decades than tell them the truth upfront now. Game over if your not at scale. You can look at subsidies as either rural dole and or helping to give the processors a margin while the retailers make 30%+.Some joke. It'll all be too late by the time they realise the state industrial farming will be in 30 years time and the type of food it'll produce. Rant over. Back to watching the price drop.

Muckit · 02-10-2016 05:30PM

I don't think the factories will let the small farmer die out for the exact reasons you mentioned. It'll mean them having to increase feedlot sizes and pay minimum wage at least for employees to run it.

The small farmer is willing to put up sheds and buy land, buy dear cattle and sell cheap and doesn't take a wage!! How could factory feedlot system compete with that?!!

theaceofspies · 02-10-2016 06:07PM

Muckit wrote: »

I don't think the factories will let the small farmer die out for the exact reasons you mentioned. It'll mean them having to increase feedlot sizes and pay minimum wage at least for employees to run it.

The small farmer is willing to put up sheds and buy land, buy dear cattle and sell cheap and doesn't take a wage!! How could factory feedlot system compete with that?!!

There is only so long that will last though.
Ireland has arguably the best farm & fish produce in the world bar none and look at both of them industries right now. All lot of this is EU policy coming home to roost for Paddy.

Bass Reeves · 02-10-2016 07:56PM

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

That's true, but there are a lot of noughts to count when your paid by the IFA!!!

Wait until the current generation of us mugs die out and that will be it, large scale feedlots, forestry galore and wild bird cover all over the place for the tourists.

Europe wanted cheap food after world war 2 and that's what they have. Cheap food that most people don't value.

No ones saying it but it's easier for the policy makers to let the small farmer die out over a couple of decades than tell them the truth upfront now. Game over if your not at scale. You can look at subsidies as either rural dole and or helping to give the processors a margin while the retailers make 30%+.Some joke. It'll all be too late by the time they realise the state industrial farming will be in 30 years time and the type of food it'll produce. Rant over. Back to watching the price drop.

Scale is immaterial. Scale adds cost that at present is not recoverable in the system. All scale means is that you work in a low income industry full time. Look at the exit out of tillage. All the lads got bigger and bigger. More labour, more management no better off. Ten years ago at winter finishing the IFJ talked about a margin of 120/head today it is 60-70 and only ever second animal makes that.

Cost an animal from birth to slaughter and the margin is quite small. Take out the cost of 2-3 mart movements and the associated slaughter costs and profit is minimal. Environmental schemes such as GLAS are a poor comparrison to REPS. REPS was aimed at the smaller farmer paying him 5K costs to him was less than 1K. SFP(now BPS) and DA(now ANC) are reducing.

What has happened to finishers is the lads that chased scale are starting to exit. As well the dairy farmer that were finishing a few pens of cattle have moved to complete milk production and ditched the beef enterprise. Why carry a calf from 3 weeks to 2 years for another 200 euro when a stupid beef farmer will pay you 200-350 euro for a trad breed beef calf.

Muckit wrote: »

I don't think the factories will let the small farmer die out for the exact reasons you mentioned. It'll mean them having to increase feedlot sizes and pay minimum wage at least for employees to run it.

The small farmer is willing to put up sheds and buy land, buy dear cattle and sell cheap and doesn't take a wage!! How could factory feedlot system compete with that?!!

Muckit is right factories do not want more feedlots. Feedlot beef is labour intensive in general they pay feedlots 10-30c/kg more that you or me and these lads are still exiting. Two years ago Larry's management had a brainwave. Each autumn they were buying stores for there feedlots but these were expensive in the mart. They then had to transport them to the feedlot and finish them. It is generally accepted that Larry loses money on everyone of his feedlot cattle. This is even though he now has his own mill etc.

The brainwave was that they would buy HEX calves and carry them to finish. Some were reared by specialist calf rearers that were in the veal game and more were reared in Larry own sheds. It seems it ended in tears all the calves were offloaded at 3-4 months. It seemed that the losses in calves reared in there own sheds were horrendous. AFAIK they have not repeated this very successful venture.

Larry has extended his feedlots he can now feed about 20K (up from 10-12K) per year. He contracts out about another 20K and other processors have about 10K in feedlots. It has to be remembered that this equates to only about 1.6 weeks kill if they feeds all 50K. They general target these cattle at mid November late February and May to control prices. In reality they have been too successful as finishers now find the time they can make a profit from cattle are now non existent.

kk.man · 04-10-2016 11:29AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Scale is immaterial. Scale adds cost that at present is not recoverable in the system. All scale means is that you work in a low income industry full time. Look at the exit out of tillage. All the lads got bigger and bigger. More labour, more management no better off. Ten years ago at winter finishing the IFJ talked about a margin of 120/head today it is 60-70 and only ever second animal makes that.

Cost an animal from birth to slaughter and the margin is quite small. Take out the cost of 2-3 mart movements and the associated slaughter costs and profit is minimal. Environmental schemes such as GLAS are a poor comparrison to REPS. REPS was aimed at the smaller farmer paying him 5K costs to him was less than 1K. SFP(now BPS) and DA(now ANC) are reducing.

What has happened to finishers is the lads that chased scale are starting to exit. As well the dairy farmer that were finishing a few pens of cattle have moved to complete milk production and ditched the beef enterprise. Why carry a calf from 3 weeks to 2 years for another 200 euro when a stupid beef farmer will pay you 200-350 euro for a trad breed beef calf.

Muckit is right factories do not want more feedlots. Feedlot beef is labour intensive in general they pay feedlots 10-30c/kg more that you or me and these lads are still exiting. Two years ago Larry's management had a brainwave. Each autumn they were buying stores for there feedlots but these were expensive in the mart. They then had to transport them to the feedlot and finish them. It is generally accepted that Larry loses money on everyone of his feedlot cattle. This is even though he now has his own mill etc.

The brainwave was that they would buy HEX calves and carry them to finish. Some were reared by specialist calf rearers that were in the veal game and more were reared in Larry own sheds. It seems it ended in tears all the calves were offloaded at 3-4 months. It seemed that the losses in calves reared in there own sheds were horrendous. AFAIK they have not repeated this very successful venture.

Larry has extended his feedlots he can now feed about 20K (up from 10-12K) per year. He contracts out about another 20K and other processors have about 10K in feedlots. It has to be remembered that this equates to only about 1.6 weeks kill if they feeds all 50K. They general target these cattle at mid November late February and May to control prices. In reality they have been too successful as finishers now find the time they can make a profit from cattle are now non existent.

I couldn't pen it better myself there Bass....only thing to add that when feedlots loose money they don't care because they are subsidised by their factories and the large SFP. You might add why expand a feedlots? The factories have spare cash from huge profits and land is a very safe option atm...either way its a win win..dampens price

Bass Reeves · 07-10-2016 05:17PM

Friesian Bull Weanlings Jan/Feb born average weight 270kgs 330 euro.

tanko · 07-10-2016 05:50PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Friesian Bull Weanlings Jan/Feb born average weight 270kgs 330 euro.

How many did you buy?

Mart Price Tracker

Comments