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How long would fuel last?

  • 14-08-2016 7:46pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭


    From dipping in and out of zombie threads I've read that fuel would start to decompose after a year. I know I could do a lot of googling but could anyone explain in laymans terms if this is correct and why?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    From dipping in and out of zombie threads I've read that fuel would start to decompose after a year. I know I could do a lot of googling but could anyone explain in laymans terms if this is correct and why?
    Fuel doesn't decompose, oil has been sitting there for millions of years, it's not going to start decomposing just because we take it out of the ground. What will happen to fuels in an open container is that they'll evaporate, lose potency and generally react with the environment.. Containers (depending on the quality) will help slow that process, but may not totally eliminate it.

    Apparently modern diesel has become a fairly elaborate mix, it has all sorts of stabilizers and additives depending on what it's being used for, modern diesel engines are just as complicated.. The other problem is most cars have vented tanks to balance air pressure and in that way they are exposed to the environment. Propeller planes actually run on diesel, it's a special type of diesel to deal with very cold temperatures.

    If you're getting your fuel from a comercial tank like a petrol station it should probably be fine. Getting fuel out of the tanks of abandoned cars could kill the engine of your car. Especially on diesel because water can get into the fuel and do serious damage to an engine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭RiderOnTheStorm


    I did a power boating course a few years ago, and they warned us of the perils of the diesel bug. There was supposed to be this bacteria that turns diesel into sludge. It takes about a year, and the fuel needs to be idle. But to be on safe side they recommended draining engines over winter. Not sure if its a sea / water thing or if it effects all diesel....


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭AllthingsCP


    I did a power boating course a few years ago, and they warned us of the perils of the diesel bug. There was supposed to be this bacteria that turns diesel into sludge. It takes about a year, and the fuel needs to be idle. But to be on safe side they recommended draining engines over winter. Not sure if its a sea / water thing or if it effects all diesel....

    Diesel starts to deteriorate and form solids within 60-90 days after refining there is ways to prolong this upwards to a year but in the end days it would be too hard.

    Petrol has a much longer lifespan but that depends on conditions containers and such.

    If an engine is started with sludge diesel it would render the motor useless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    It seems those vegetable oil conversions won't be any help either as they seem to supplement diesel rather than replace it entirely. As far as I'm aware there are some rapeseed oil refinement plants around Ireland, so there is a source of vegetable oil there for use.

    It seems over all the best car for the apocalypse would be a fully electric car. You'd need to find your nearest owner of a nissan leaf or preferably a Tesla and rob their car once the poop hits the fan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    You still need to charge that electric car.

    Biodiesel is still the most feasible option as it dosent take much equipment to make a useable fuel.

    Gassifiers are the other option for any sttionary engines such as generators or log splitters etc..

    You can run vehicles on straight vegetable oil, but yes over time it will shag your engine in our climate without regular and extensive maintenance


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Tzar Chasm wrote: »
    You still need to charge that electric car.
    Yes, but worst case scenario you put some zombies on a treadmill attached to a generator. I think generating electricity will be easier for many people. I wonder is there a way to plug directly into those big windmills you see littered around the countryside.
    Biodiesel is still the most feasible option as it dosent take much equipment to make a useable fuel.
    I wondered about biodiesel, how hard is it to make? I assumed it would be beyond most people. I assumed the process of making it would use up a considerable amount of electricity too, which you could just put directly into your car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    Big wind turbines are out of the question, they feed into the grid, so not compatible with anything domestic

    Biodiesel is remarkably simple and requires no more tools than some barrels and few Glass bowls.

    Here, check this out,
    http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=447609751&f=719605551&m=857600061


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Tzar Chasm wrote: »
    Big wind turbines are out of the question, they feed into the grid, so not compatible with anything domestic

    Biodiesel is remarkably simple and requires no more tools than some barrels and few Glass bowls.

    Here, check this out,
    http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=447609751&f=719605551&m=857600061
    The chemicals might be a bit harder to get here in Ireland, I don't think you're average Irish supermarket would sell these kinds of things. Farmer suppliers might though. Searching for them showed a bulk supplier of all these chemicals so that's going on the "places to raid when the **** hits the fan list".


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    caustic soda & barbecue lighting fuel,


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Both untreated petrol and diesel will be useless sludge and varnish within 6 to 12 months.Both are fast sell commodities in the modern world so there is no need to add stabilisers or preservatives to them as they will be used up within virtually 12 to 14 days of refining..Dont belive me?Try starting your lawnmower in Spring if you store it with a full tank of petrol[as you should to prevent moisture forming and rust in your tank] You can get fuel stabiliser products like STA BIL to prolong both petrol and diesel out to 14 and 24 months respectively.So unless you have a stash already in place,you are going to be goosed on the motor transportation side.
    Bio diesel isn't that hard to make if you can find [lye or caustic soda] and ethanol.Fortunatly they are both pretty much standard industrial chemicals and are around.You can even make caustic soda from wood ash .Go learn up on it now,be a handy skill to have for soap making in the post apocalyptic world.Gotta wash the Zombie blood off you and your clothes..
    Wouldnt try running it in a common rail diesel engine mind.You need an older diesel like a perkins or landrover or 1980s yoke.
    You could also refine certain plastics back into a crude form of petrol ,diesel ,light and heavy lube oils and bunker oil to run your engines.Mightnt be as smooth as modern day fuels with their additives,but if it gets you motoring away from the undead,how bad??
    Should add you could also make potin or moonshine high proof alcohol and use that as a fuel too by cutting it with petrol.Will clean out the fuel lines too as a bonus.Or if you are good and have a engine with a carbereuttor it can be modified to run on alcohol by modifying the jets. Just dont expect a quick getaway from a cold start.You have to vaporise alcohol before it will work in a cold engine.
    Best and proably lasting the longest and proably will be available no bother in handy sturdy bottles is LPG gas.Things like forklifts run on them,and LPG gas conversions for cars were common in the 1980s and are still available if you are putting together a survival vechicle.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    If you can afford it and want to have some petrol handy for long term storage then there is always the alkylate petrol Aspen fuel. Shelf life is about 5 years but I've held on for it longer and used it in lawnmowers, lanterns and stoves and not noticed any loss of performance. Price though is 4 or more times that of pump petrol.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    As long as the zombies can hold off for another 10 years or so fully useable electric cars should be common place.

    I think electric is still the way to go, it's way simpler, even if the motor broke down it may be possible to rewind the motors, or just replace them with industrial units. Batteries will have a shelf life of about ten years, but there are many ways to generate electricity which is the main benefit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    Electric would be a massive problem without the infrastructure behind it.

    Old mechanical engines are where the solution lies, no computers no delicate components, fix it with a hammer engineering.

    Something diesel from the late eighties or early 90's would be what you want. Solid engineering run on anything.

    https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/peugeot-205-van-gti-spec/13465610

    These yokes are solid and economic


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Yeah, African countries seem to be able to keep old mercs running without much access to official parts and proper work spaces.

    The infrastructure to make electricity isn't that complex, storing it is the problem, but that should hopefully be fixed in a decade or so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    Generating electricity is easy, i can build a proof of concept dynamo from stuff lying around your house in a few minutes.
    Generating Enough electricity to reliably charge a car is on a different level of complexity. Then you still have the portability issue.

    The w123 mercedes 230 with a 5cyl diesel is legendary in its reliability, and a reasonably comfortable car for something 40 odd years old.


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