Jarhedz and Boards.

DeVore

I note that while you are willing to threaten legal action against Boards.ie both publically here and in private to all the admins, a threat which would end this entire community site were it to be found true in a court, you are still happy enough to come here and use what we've built to publicise your competition and have people work for you for the hope of a prize.... curious.

I think all submitters should be aware that the rules on your website state:

3. When you submit an entry, you relinquish all rights, including copyright to said image and it becomes the property of jarHedz

So win or lose Jarhedz owns the logo... nice touch.



Community is family, sometimes its dysfunctional sometimes there are rows and sometimes they look out for each other but you are either in or you are out.

I told you I dont respond well to threats.

DeV.

joev2

Originally posted by DeVore
I note that while you are willing to threaten legal action against Boards.ie both publically here and in private to all the admins, a threat which would end this entire community site were it to be found true in a court, you are still happy enough to come here and use what we've built to publicise your competition and have people work for you for the hope of a prize.... curious.

Firstly, I posted here as the moderators of the other forum pointed out that this was a more appropriate place for it.

Secondly, I posted here before all hell broke loose in the CS forum thread.

It would never be my wish to cause boards.ie to be closed. The threat of legal action was mentioned as what seemed to be my only way to get some sort of 'fair play' from yourself and the other boards principles. This has been sadly not forthcoming.

Besides which, I have not publicly 'threatened' boards with a libel suit. I haven't actually threatened anyone with a libel suit. Please feel free to correct me, but I've just re-read the thread in question, and as I was sure, I've not threatened such at all.

Either way, you can rest easy, I've been thinking and talking with people a great deal over the past few days and whatever the personal or idealogical differences we might have, I really feel that the general Irish 'internet' communities interest would be ill served by trying to remove boards.

I do not agree with how you guys run things, nor with how you treat people who 'get on your nerves', however, there are a good number of people who derive daily enjoyment from this system and what purpose would it serve to start into a legal battle about it's future. None.

So, you may say I'm chicken or whatever you feel you need to, it doesn't really bother me. I have made a rational and reasoned decision about it.

Originally posted by DeVore
I think all submitters should be aware that the rules on your website state:

So win or lose Jarhedz owns the logo... nice touch.

It's not like it's hidden from public view DeVore... It's there in the same font and colours as the rest of the text (with the exception of the prizes which are highlighted simply because I was sure people would be most interested in that.

That clause of the rules is a stock clause that I've seen in any competition of this type either online or in other media.

Please don't try to imply that we're going to steal from people. How would it serve our interests to be known as thieves?

In fact, you do (inadvertantly) raise a point. Once the competition is over and the winners selected, what we'll so is return the non-winning entries to their authors. We'll have no use for them and certainly juding by the quality of quite a few of the entries so far, they'd be good 'portfolio' material.


The main reason for this 'we own it till the competition is over' thing is so that we can judge whether it's maybe necessary to 'combine' entries to get the logo we want, and in which case we'll split the prizes with the parties involved in some way. (we can negotiate this with people, we're flexible about it).

Originally posted by DeVore
Community is family, sometimes its dysfunctional sometimes there are rows and sometimes they look out for each other but you are either in or you are out.

I agree completely, however you fail to note that one section of said family are allowed to bully others with impunity.

For my own part, all of my attempts at being 'in' are shunned and have been for some time.

This family that looks out for each other certainly doesn't include me. Why do I say this? Well, for nigh on a year now I've been harrassed, defamed, insulted, bullied, lied about and generally treated like ****. I have many times called on the 'mammys and daddys' to 'look out for me' and it all falls on dead ears (with the notable exception of kaids).

Shinji is also now implying that the subsection of that family that are also members of the jarHedz community are to be ostracised. (He hasn't come out and said it directly but has made it implicitly clear that this is so in his last post on the CS forum thread and in a PM to me).

That's probably the best way to deal with people who disagree with you. Just shut them up. Good example to the community that.

That's some sort of dysfunctional family all right.

Originally posted by DeVore
I told you I dont respond well to threats.

DeV.

I would say that's an understatement. You apparently respond appallingly if your responses to me are anything to go by.

If those are your true colours, then I'm glad I had a chance to see them. At least now I know what sort of person you are (and I was very wrong in what I used to think).

So in answer to your question (which I can't answer in the original thread because it's locked):

"so are you gonna bark all day little doggie or are you going to bite?"

I'm going to turn around, wag my tail and walk off with my head held high.

joev.

joev2

<modedit>As DeVore mentioned, pay particular attention to this:

I don't think it's unusual for the winning entries to become copyright of whoever is running a competition, but every single entry?
Just be aware of this.</modedit> [/B]

Poor wording on our part.

Amended as follows:

3. The winning entrant will pass the the rights to their submitted logo, including copyright but not accreditation for original authorship to jarHedz. This is a condition of receipt of the prize. We will take pains to ensure that people know who the author is.


For clarity. We only want the rights to the winning entry, and even at that we'll make sure that people know who the creative genius is.

4. To submit an entry, please post to the following thread on our forums:
http://www.jarhedz.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1362
- entries with a received datestamp of later than 6pm (GMT) on the Saturday the 7th of June will be rejected. - If you need to register an account to post, please make sure you specify a valid email address as this will be the contact address we will use to contact you.


i.e. We are extending the deadline for an additional week. This is to allow people who are busy with exams etc the opportunity to participate. Also note, we've given up on the email address.. there seems to be something wrong with our mail server at the moment and I haven't the time to go fix it.

joev.

Goosey

OMG is this the CS forum or the Arts???:rolleyes:

joev2

Originally posted by Goosey
OMG is this the CS forum or the Arts???:rolleyes:

Hey! I didn't drag that stuff over here, DeVore did. I simply answered his points.

*and* I took the criticism of that dodgy Rule 3 and went and fixed it.

Don't know what more I can do to please people :P

joev.

Figment

I personally am gratefull that devore raised the points he did.

joev2

Originally posted by Figment
I personally am gratefull that devore raised the points he did.

As am I. Particulary the one about Rule 3.

As I said, bad wording and DeVores post highlighted it. It was never my wish to imply that we'd take every image and 'copyright' it.

joev.

Hobbes

You know you could saved yourself a world of pain if you just posted a link to your site with the competition details there and just not bothered using Boards.ie as the medium.

Also the owning of all entries is pretty standard, but if you didn't offer the prizes and used entries that didn't win they could probably sue you (The entrants that is).

GoneShootin

i wonder whats on tv 2nite


/me wonders off away from Mommy and Daddy fighting, again

joev2

Originally posted by Hobbes
You know you could saved yourself a world of pain if you just posted a link to your site with the competition details there and just not bothered using Boards.ie as the medium.

That's what I thought I did Hobbes... Ok, I mentioned the prizes and stuff.. but I didn't put the rules up here. DeV posted the original 'Rule 3' over from our forums.

Since then I've mostly only responded in reply to questions.

The only other information I've posted was those rule amendments and I felt it appropriate since it was people on this forum that prompted it.

I would certainly prefer to contain discussions about it to our forums... It means one less thread for me to read

Perhaps a lock on the topic with an instruction to come hassle me or go to our forums with questions/comments/suggestions would be the right way to do it?

Originally posted by Hobbes
Also the owning of all entries is pretty standard, but if you didn't offer the prizes and used entries that didn't win they could probably sue you (The entrants that is).

I agree, however I think the amended rule 3 is fine anyway... we only want the rights to the logo that wins (and becomes our logo). The rest we'll help people to showcase if they want. (somehow).

joev.

DeVore

Originally posted by joev2
It would never be my wish to cause boards.ie to be closed. The threat of legal action was mentioned as what seemed to be my only way to get some sort of 'fair play' from yourself and the other boards principles. This has been sadly not forthcoming.

You know I'd never HEARD of you before 3 days ago (and already I dont like you... thats a neat trick!)

You didnt communicate with me prior to a mail arriving out of the blue that you DIDNT like the joke images that were being offered as logos and you were considering legal action.

If that was a "bluff" to spur me into action, it was the stupidest thing you could have done. As I've said I dont react well to threats.

Besides which, I have not publicly 'threatened' boards with a libel suit. I haven't actually threatened anyone with a libel suit. Please feel free to correct me, but I've just re-read the thread in question, and as I was sure, I've not threatened such at all.

Dont play semantics with me. You threatened to take legal consultation against boards.ie in your mail to me.

Will you give me rights to post the contents of the mail?

Either way, you can rest easy, I've been thinking and talking with people a great deal over the past few days and whatever the personal or idealogical differences we might have, I really feel that the general Irish 'internet' communities interest would be ill served by trying to remove boards.

Gosh thats awfully kind of you. The fact that you havent a legal chance might be a factor too...
or the fact that you wouldnt have anywhere to get cheap logos done. Or to promote Radox or Jarhedz.

I'll rest *just fine* with or without your help.

That clause of the rules is a stock clause that I've seen in any competition of this type either online or in other media.

I've never seen submission being a release of copyright before.
I thought it should be brought to the communities attention.

Please don't try to imply that we're going to steal from people. How would it serve our interests to be known as thieves?

You're interests are not being served by coming off as humourless assholes either but you (plural) seem to be persuing that line steadfastly...

I agree completely, however you fail to note that one section of said family are allowed to bully others with impunity.

Bully or fair comment? I havent seen them "bully" you at all though I've seen from you a variety of "bullyboy" tactics including referring to someone as "boy" and throwing around insinuations of legal action.

This family that looks out for each other certainly doesn't include me. Why do I say this? Well, for nigh on a year now I've been harrassed, defamed, insulted, bullied, lied about and generally treated like ****. I have many times called on the 'mammys and daddys' to 'look out for me' and it all falls on dead ears (with the notable exception of kaids).

I have never heard of you before. I know Balmark from Radox and a few others. Military grade morons in general.

I know a few other admins from Radox and they are sound guys (who, I might point out, have absolutely no trouble here and get along famously even with the nefarious Shinji and Par!)

Why do you think that is?

[/b][/quote]
Shinji is also now implying that the subsection of that family that are also members of the jarHedz community are to be ostracised. (He hasn't come out and said it directly but has made it implicitly clear that this is so in his last post on the CS forum thread and in a PM to me).

That's probably the best way to deal with people who disagree with you. Just shut them up. Good example to the community that.

That's some sort of dysfunctional family all right.
[/b][/quote]

If a kid continuously whinged at the dinner table and threw a tantrum, I as their father would remove them from the room.

I would say that's an understatement. You apparently respond appallingly if your responses to me are anything to go by.

Keep pushing me, I havent started yet.

If those are your true colours, then I'm glad I had a chance to see them. At least now I know what sort of person you are (and I was very wrong in what I used to think).

I dont care what you think. You threaten me or mine and I'll be all over you like a rash.

So in answer to your question (which I can't answer in the original thread because it's locked):

"so are you gonna bark all day little doggie or are you going to bite?"

I'm going to turn around, wag my tail and walk off with my head held high.

joev.

Fine by me. You keep walking. I'll be right here if you are looking for me.


DeV.

Samson

Apologies to anyone interested in the competition, but as can be seen, this thread has gone off on a tangent and the matters now being discussed no longer have any relevance to the Art/Anim/Photo forum and (as I see it) now fall under the remit of the Admins. Hence, the move to the Admin forum.

Anyone still interested in entering the competition should refer to:
http://www.jarhedz.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=35

ecksor

Thank you samson. Despite my hooting laughter at the submissions to the logo competition and my fairly low opinion of joev2's [*] dramaqueen antics, I will endevore to be as fair and impartial as possible.

[*] Was there a joev? Was he banned? Same crap, different nick? boards is like groundhog day sometimes.

joev2

Originally posted by DeVore
You know I'd never HEARD of you before 3 days ago (and already I dont like you... thats a neat trick!)

We've had no reason to be in contact much before. I have to say that my 'impression' of you before this was as resonably civil, level-headed and fair. I find that, at least with your dealings with me, this has not been the case. I confess, this has lead to a certain amount of bad-feeling in return. Something I'm hoping we can dispel by reasoned discussion.

Originally posted by DeVore
You didnt communicate with me prior to a mail arriving out of the blue that you DIDNT like the joke images that were being offered as logos and you were considering legal action.

I strongly suggest that you have a look at the 'Report post' function. I was under the impression that this sent you and the moderators messages. I have been using it for months, pointing out the continuous harrassment and defamation that we have received from certain users and asking for action to be taken against them.

Equally, I suggest that you have a look at the moderation of the board in question in accordance with it's charter. It seems that said charter is only in operation in as much as it 'suits' the moderators (not all, but a certain 2 in particular). This leads to unfairness in how the board is run. Users cannot expect equal and consistent treatment.

Originally posted by DeVore
If that was a "bluff" to spur me into action, it was the stupidest thing you could have done. As I've said I dont react well to threats.

It was no bluff. I had considered legal action. I discarded the notion because I saw no benefit in it to either you, me or to the community at large. I'm sorry that you saw my mail as a threat, I considered it more a "I'm at my wits end, look at the lengths I'll go to" type mail. In retrospect I could have put it less 'bluntly' but that was truely my only recourse as I saw it.

If only you had had the courtesy to reply to my mail in kind I'm sure this whole arguement could have been put to rest then and there.

Originally posted by DeVore
Dont play semantics with me. You threatened to take legal consultation against boards.ie in your mail to me.

Will you give me rights to post the contents of the mail?

If you had asked me that before this all blew up I would have said yes. Now, given the amount of bluster that I have received I'm not inclined to be 'obliging'. Childish, I know, but seeing as how you have labeled me as "humourless", "a moron", "a little-doggie" etc *and* seen fit to divulge certain parts of it in public without my consent already, I don't see why I should 'assist' you in your arguement.

The answer is categorically no.

Originally posted by DeVore
Gosh thats awfully kind of you. The fact that you havent a legal chance might be a factor too...
or the fact that you wouldnt have anywhere to get cheap logos done. Or to promote Radox or Jarhedz.

I disagree. I think your understanding of Irish Libel law is flawed. I confess to a certain interest in seeing how the laws would be applied to non-print, largely distributed media such as an internet site (I'm not aware of any 'precedent setting' cases thus far.) however as I have previously stated, I don't really see where anyone's interest would be served by such.

As for 'promotion', I have never promoted my service on yours. The competition thread was started because we felt it would be something of interest to your users (given that a large percentage of the CS board users are also users of our services). I then posted it to the Arts forum because it was suggested by a moderator and posting of such competitions is explicitly mentioned in that boards charter (I checked before posting).

Originally posted by DeVore
I've never seen submission being a release of copyright before.
I thought it should be brought to the communities attention.

It appears to be common practise for such competitions. I have taken the trouble of doing a quick google search for "logo competition rules" (would that you had before maligning me) and here are some examples:

http://www.hrw.org/logo/rules.html (Rule 8)

http://odphp.osophs.dhhs.gov/pubs/prevrpt/99winpr/win99logo.html (Rule 3)

http://umbra.nascom.nasa.gov/aas_spd/officialrules.html (Rule 14)

Originally posted by DeVore
You're interests are not being served by coming off as humourless assholes either but you (plural) seem to be persuing that line steadfastly...

Now Tom, surely that's a libellous statement.

libel:

3. (Law) A malicious publication expressed either in print or in writing, or by pictures, effigies, or other signs, tending to expose another to public hatred, contempt, or ridicule. Such publication is indictable at common law.

Now, I'm not a solicitor, so I don't have access to a law library and therefore cannot quote the judicial dicta directly, however, I am drawn to quote Micheal Foley's article "Gag Reflex: Ireland's Libel Laws Muzzle A Free Press" which has an excellent summation of Irish Libel law and how it is applied.

There is no definition of defamation in Irish law. Lawyers rely on judicial dicta that provide a working definition of defamation as a wrongful publication of a false statement about a person, which tends to lower that person in the estimation of right-thinking members of society, or to hold a person up to hatred, ridicule, or contempt, or causes a person to be shunned or avoided.

While the truth of a statement offers the best defense, there is a presumption in favor of the plaintiff, who merely has to show that the words referred to him or her and were published by the defendant. The onus is on the defendant to prove that the statement is true. For media organizations, this means demonstrating that the statement is true according to the legal rather than the journalistic standard: The words that are the subject of the libel action must be substantially true in themselves, irrespective of any context.

Above you have referred to me as (a) humourless and (b) an asshole, Further down you refer to Balmark (and unnamed others, which I presume includes me) as (c) Military grade morons.

I'd suggest you bring this up with your solicitor next time you're talking to him or her. I think they might suggest an alteration to your posting 'style'.

Originally posted by DeVore
Bully or fair comment? I havent seen them "bully" you at all though I've seen from you a variety of "bullyboy" tactics including referring to someone as "boy" and throwing around insinuations of legal action.

I suggest you have a read back over some months of the CS forums. Your perspective on this, it seems, is based on that one thread... If you do a little research, and check those 'Reports' I mentioned, you'll see that there has been systematic and continuous bullying, harassment and defamation of myself, jarHedz and other members who are associated with us.

The reference to PAR/LTM as 'boy' is, as far as I am aware entirely accurate. He's only a young fella.

I fail to see how you can have such a hard time with this given that other people in the thread had called me pretty much everything under the sun (Par included) - There was also a suggestion by one user, red_ice' that another user, a 14 year old boy, go and suck 'c**k'. (Hmm.. solicitation of a minor perhaps? :P)

Such statements are what made me angry enough to condescend to Par in such a manner. Believe me, it's not my usual style.

Perhaps Kaid's cleanup of the thread happened before you re-read the thread and you're unaware of some of the things that were said. You're certainly *not* unaware of the of Shinji calling me an 'idiot' and telling me to go and **** myself, as these are in the penultimate post in the thread immediately preceding yours.

Yet my 'lapse' (albeit provoked) somehow got up your goad.

Originally posted by DeVore
I have never heard of you before. I know Balmark from Radox and a few others. Military grade morons in general.

See my point above about libel. I think I should just stop replying to you, you appear to be making my points for me

I'm kidding! It's a JOKE! And you say I'm humourless

Originally posted by DeVore
I know a few other admins from Radox and they are sound guys (who, I might point out, have absolutely no trouble here and get along famously even with the nefarious Shinji and Par!)

Why do you think that is?

Those are the people who generally keep their heads down and dont get involved. I, like yourself it seems, am not one to roll over and allow someone to crap all over me and mine. I see it as my right and duty to defend them (just as you yourself mention later in your post). Therefore I don't allow people to lie or defame myself, my organisation or my people without response... Given that we're having this discussion I'm sure you can sympathise with that.

The simple fact is that the feeling of 'anonymity' of the internet gives some of your users the impression that they can say what they like about people without any fear of reprisals.

The core of the problem, as I see it, is that the moderators of the CS forums do not enforce the charter of said forum, specifically, Section 1 and 3. If they were, users such as LittleTinyMan, Shinji and red_ice would have been banned long ago.

Even you yourself refer to Shinji and Par as 'nefarious', therefore one can only assume that they operate outside the rules with your sanction.

[to be continued...]

joev2

[... continued from previous post.]

Originally posted by DeVore

Shinji is also now implying that the subsection of that family that are also members of the jarHedz community are to be ostracised. (He hasn't come out and said it directly but has made it implicitly clear that this is so in his last post on the CS forum thread and in a PM to me).

That's probably the best way to deal with people who disagree with you. Just shut them up. Good example to the community that.

That's some sort of dysfunctional family all right.

If a kid continuously whinged at the dinner table and threw a tantrum, I as their father would remove them from the room.

If you would care to look over my posts you will see that at all times I attempt to be reasonable, calm and elucidate my points clearly and concisely.

I generally steer clear of 'flame' or otherwise defamatory comments. Ok, once and a while, even my gargantuan control slips and I allow my contempt for someones position to show through (e.g. the 'boy' comment in reference to PAR) but such instances are very seldom and very far between.

Originally posted by DeVore
I dont care what you think. You threaten me or mine and I'll be all over you like a rash.

The sad fact here is that it was never my intention to threaten at all.. the whole mention of 'legal action' in my email was more specifically to show my level of frustration at the continuous harrassment that I and jarHedz (and Clan RaDoX) get from a certain (very small it must be noted) contingent of users of this system.

If you had at least shown me the decency of replying to my mail directly I'm pretty certain that this could all have been resolved without recourse to this long discourse.

If you are unaware of the number of times I've reported certain users, then certainly accept my apologies. My frustration with the management of the system must have been based on a false assumption that you were getting a copy of the 'Report Post' messages.

Originally posted by DeVore
Fine by me. You keep walking. I'll be right here if you are looking for me.

DeV.

Fair enough. I hope you'll reply to this (post haste! :P) as I am interested in your responses to the points above.

joev.

joev2

Originally posted by ecksor

[*] Was there a joev? Was he banned? Same crap, different nick? boards is like groundhog day sometimes.

Same person... my other account is b0rked since I changed email address and never received the special mail.

joev.

ecksor

I do believe that for a paper letter the copyright of the contents is owned by both the sender and the receiver, surely the same applies to e-mail?

Admins don't get reports on moderated forums. The mods handle those.

If you have a problem with moderatorship, then here is the place to complain.

I honestly don't think that the spirit of defamation laws apply to someone showing a low opinion of your intelligence, but if they do then boards.ie is probably a little goldmine for a lawyer somewhere. You're certainly humourless or at least in need of a thicker neck if you're going to interact with the CS community here. I certainly would not say that you're an asshole, but I would agree that you come off as such, considering the approach you were taking, and the smug approach you've continued to take. "Ho ho DeV, if only your solicitor could see your posts, he'd put you straight." :rolleyes:
Mind you, I don't like that word, and my definition of it may be different to yours.

Rightly or wrongly, if you've been continually reporting posts (were you complaining about the moderater standards in those reports? Which were being mailed to the moderators???? :eek: ) then it isn't surprising if some mods have lost patience with you. If your first contact with DeVore was a mail with a veiled threat of legal action then it really isn't surprising if he has no patience with you either.

Coming in here and writing a two post essay about how persecuted you are in a condescending manner doesn't inspire my patience either. Do you see the problem now?

What's the specific issue now? Is there a post/poster/image that's causing you grief or upset or something specific that we can do for you? I know there have been a few things but at this point you just seem to be having a general wahhh at everyone.

Shinji

I believe that those reports are indeed sent to the Admins as well as moderators. Joev has certainly been whinging for a very long time. He seems to be under the impression that if he keeps on whinging about the same things, suddenly the moderators will also lose all sense of perspective, announce "BY YOUR COMMAND" in a mechanical voice and run off to protect his delicate hide from the nasty people who seem to think he's not the second coming of christ.

There's a difference between systematic abuse and regular criticism. In general the only actual "abuse" has come when it was precipitated by some fool from Radox who doesn't know how to approach a fire without throwing petrol on it.

However, Joev does raise one valid point - the CS board charter is clearly out of date, since I wrote it quite a long time ago and it no longer reflects the requirements of the board. I honestly don't CARE that he seems to think it's valid to beat me around with a set of guidelines I wrote myself and scream "THE RULES, THE RULES" until he's blue in the face and physically retching, but fair point nonetheless. The charter will be rewritten.

Funny thing - the ban on talking about individual servers was designed to prevent an influx of posts from people complaining about being unfairly banned or badly treated - you guessed it! - on the Radox server. Radox asked that these discussions be redirected to their board, and at the time, I obliged. It was never meant to cover more general discussion of servers or GSPs, something which I made clear at the time and which they were perfectly happy with.

Really, thinking about it, I gave Radox so much damn latitude on the CS board when myself and Mills were the main moderators there. Ah well. Bite the hand that feeds, and you know what? The pedigree chum stops getting bought.

(Joev - I stand by my statement that you are an "idiot" and continue to maintain that you should go and fuck youself, by the way. I await your forthcoming court summons with undisguised glee!)

DeVore

Ecksor, its already been cleaned, long before this in fact. Apparently my inability to hack into YOREMA.com and take down images from there is whats causing the problem.

Joev a few things you are clearly NOT aware of, reading this may help. http://indigo.ie/~kwood/defamation.htm , its not complete but its a good primer.


1. You are a humourless twat. That is not libel, slander or defamation. It falls under my fair comment rights in that it is an honestly held opinion.

2. You'd need to show that you were lowered in the eyes of right thinking peers. I think you have already commented how the people on this site are not your "peers".

3. Its gross abuse. I can call Bertie Ahern the Devil's bumboy all I like and its inactionable because it doesnt lower him in the eyes of "right thinking peers". Its just an insult. If I were to imply that he wasnt a good Taoiseach that might be actionable.


I dont have time to respond to every quote you made but since they are repetitive witterings I can cover them in a few points.

1. I note you wont give me right to reprint your aggressive and frankly condescending (that means: talking down to, btw) letter.
Neither I nor any of the admins forwarded or imparted that letter in full or in part to anyone else. You on the other hand have claimed that I *have* which IS actually defamation since it affects my income and isnt something covered by "opinion".
The Irony of it eh? (Thats like sarcasm, only different...)

2. You claim Boards has defamed you. In itself that is a defamatory comment. If you took us to court and lost you would immediately fall liable to countersuit.

3. You were not calm, lucid or in any way concilliatory even after I attempted to defuse things. Nor were your lackies. In fact I note with humour that while you objected on behalf of your incarcerated grandfather against one distasteful image, a similar image depicting Shinji and Par as hitlers went unnotice.
And then you have the gall to accuse me of double standards.

4. You're supposed attempt to indicate your arrival at the end of your tether included you issuing us with orders as to what to do, punctated with "post haste". Of course since you wont let me reproduce your letter, you get to conveniently hide what you wrote and claim to be the wounded party.



Joev, this is very very simple from my point of view and if it wasnt for the reasonableness of Joesoap I'd have done it long ago.

From this point forward and with the sole exception of this forum I'm issues an instruction for ANY thread relating to Radox or Jarhedz to be deleted on sight, regardless of poster and for that poster to be banned outright forthwith.

This way you will never have a problem with Boards again and we will have no further threat of "legal consultations".

We'll all be happier that way wont we?

DeV.

ecksor

My interpretation of how the report code works is that it builds a list of Moderators for the given forum that the reported post is on, and sends the report to those mods. If that list is empty, then it sends the report to all of the admins.

Unless some admin is by some magic that I can't see receiving all of these reports and comes on here and says so, then you should take it that things are as I described. I've certainly never gotten any reports from a forum that someone else moderates.

joev2

Originally posted by ecksor
I do believe that for a paper letter the copyright of the contents is owned by both the sender and the receiver, surely the same applies to e-mail?

I'm not sure either to be honest. At this point it doesn't really matter... I think I've explained why I was so 'argumentative' if you will, in my mail to DeVore.

Originally posted by ecksor
Admins don't get reports on moderated forums. The mods handle those.

Hmm.. I have been misinformed. (Ironically, I think it was Shinji who mentioned that DeV gets a copy of those reports to me some time ago)

Originally posted by ecksor
If you have a problem with moderatorship, then here is the place to complain.

Fair enough, I believe that Shinji and Littletinyman are unsuitable as moderators of the CS forum. They engage in flaming, trolling and do not enforce the charter of said forum excepting when it suits their own agenda.

As evidence, please have a look through any thread that refers to the word radox or jarhedz in the CS forums.

Originally posted by ecksor
I honestly don't think that the spirit of defamation laws apply to someone showing a low opinion of your intelligence, but if they do then boards.ie is probably a little goldmine for a lawyer somewhere.

I'm not a solicitor, so I'm not going to argue the semantics of this with you. Suffice it to say, all my reading of articles relating to the libel laws in ireland (there is no defamation law by the way, judicial dicta apply) shows that the onus is on the defendant to provide irrecontravertable truth in the statements issued without reference to context.) (i.e. You would have to prove that someone's I.Q. level is of a sufficiently low level to be able to call then a 'moron' with impunity)

Originally posted by ecksor
You're certainly humourless or at least in need of a thicker neck if you're going to interact with the CS community here.

Quite honestly, you're not qualified to judge if I'm humourless or not. You don't know me from adam. I have a very good sense of humour actually, and am perfectly capable of laughing at myself. The reason that I may seem humourless on boards is because I'm usually dragged here to defend my people, my organisation or myself against attack from one of boards users (generally the same people over and over).

As I'm sure anyone can understand, it's very difficult to maintain a sense of humour when the 'joke' is played out viciously time after time after time.

Originally posted by ecksor
I certainly would not say that you're an asshole, but I would agree that you come off as such, considering the approach you were taking, and the smug approach you've continued to take. "Ho ho DeV, if only your solicitor could see your posts, he'd put you straight." :rolleyes:
Mind you, I don't like that word, and my definition of it may be different to yours.

Sorry, because I'm making pains to be clear, reasoned and comprehensive in my replies I'm 'smug'? I think that's rather unfair. I'm only endevouring to diffuse the situation into a discussion (from a flamewar) by stating, with as little 'emotion' as I can the facts as I see them.

Originally posted by ecksor
Rightly or wrongly, if you've been continually reporting posts (were you complaining about the moderater standards in those reports? Which were being mailed to the moderators???? :eek: ) then it isn't surprising if some mods have lost patience with you. If your first contact with DeVore was a mail with a veiled threat of legal action then it really isn't surprising if he has no patience with you either.

There were rarely complaints about moderator standards. There have been one or two I'll admit, but the vast majority of the times I simply state what I see as the problem with the post (would that I had the foresight to keep copys of these reports.. an error I won't repeat in the future).

If the moderators are frustrated with my 'Reporting' lots of posts then surely the way to deal with it is to do something about it?

As for the 'veiled threat' that is entirely (I see now) a function of misunderstanding on my part. I was seriously under the impression that DeVore, or Cloud or Regi or all of them were in the 'delivery' queue for that system.

DeVore, my apologies for that, I certainly wouldn't have taken the 'line' I took with you if I had realised that you were unaware of my 'issues'.

Originally posted by ecksor
Coming in here and writing a two post essay about how persecuted you are in a condescending manner doesn't inspire my patience either. Do you see the problem now?

Sorry, I'm re-reading my post and I really don't see how it's condescending. There are certainly barbed jibes in there but that's in response to the topics I'm answering. If you look closely you will see that it is mostly concilliatory rather than outright arguementative.

Originally posted by ecksor
What's the specific issue now? Is there a post/poster/image that's causing you grief or upset or something specific that we can do for you? I know there have been a few things but at this point you just seem to be having a general wahhh at everyone.

I don't know how you have come to that conclusion. I have answered DeVore's points, I have stated where I see problems and offered my opinions on them.

If you want something more specific then I'll detail the problems as I see it.

(a). Two of the Moderators of the CS forums do not enforce the board charter in a consistent and fair manner.

(b). Shinji (a moderator) commits personal attacks on people in contravention of the charter of the board of which he, himself is the moderator. (See rule 3 of the CS board charter)

(c). Littletinyman (a moderator) has been engaged in systematic defamation of me, my organisation and several other members of the CS forum for a period of no less than a year on the self same board and in contravention of it's charter (articles 1 and 3).

(d). red_ice (a user) has been engaged in systematic defamation of myself, my organisation and many members of the CS forums for as long as I can remember. He has also, recently gone so far as to solicit a sexual act from a minor (suggesting that a 14 year old boy 'suck c**k'). Surely there is enough grounds for a ban on this user.

That should be specific enough I think?

joev.

DeVore

Well I've solved your problem.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98138

We wont be having any further problems with Jarhedz or Radox being defamed.

Goodbye.

DeV.

ecksor

If the moderators are frustrated with my 'Reporting' lots of posts then surely the way to deal with it is to do something about it?

Only if that is justified. They're the moderators, not you. I know nothing about LTM but I'm inclined to trust Shinji's judgement in these matters.

Btw, The surest way to prevent a user from reporting posts on a given forum is to ban that user from the forum.

I still think you're humourless, and you can take the humour equivilent of me saying "I am not a lawyer" for that one if it makes you feel better.

What the hell is Radox and jarhedz anyway? A clan? For crying out loud, you're posting on a frickin' Counter Strike forum. If someone was ruining the serious discussion on Humanities or Politics I might be inclined to see your point of view.

joev2

Originally posted by DeVore
Ecksor, its already been cleaned, long before this in fact. Apparently my inability to hack into YOREMA.com and take down images from there is whats causing the problem.

I have never asked for that. I haven't even asked for the *link* to be removed you will note.

Originally posted by DeVore
1. You are a humourless twat. That is not libel, slander or defamation. It falls under my fair comment rights in that it is an honestly held opinion.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, however misguided it may be.

Originally posted by DeVore
2. You'd need to show that you were lowered in the eyes of right thinking peers. I think you have already commented how the people on this site are not your "peers".

Nowhere have I said that.

Originally posted by DeVore
3. Its gross abuse. I can call Bertie Ahern the Devil's bumboy all I like and its inactionable because it doesnt lower him in the eyes of "right thinking peers". Its just an insult. If I were to imply that he wasnt a good Taoiseach that might be actionable.

Whatever you say... It's not an issue any more anyway.

Originally posted by DeVore
1. I note you wont give me right to reprint your aggressive and frankly condescending (that means: talking down to, btw) letter.
Neither I nor any of the admins forwarded or imparted that letter in full or in part to anyone else. You on the other hand have claimed that I *have* which IS actually defamation since it affects my income and isnt something covered by "opinion".

The Irony of it eh? (Thats like sarcasm, only different...)

This is a reference, by you, to the substantial intent of my mail:

Radox/Jarheads, I've been bullied unsuccessfully by bigger then you ... I'd like to point out that we are not responsible for the content of links to other servers we dont control (ie: yorema.com).
Linking to something isnt publishing.

Originally posted by DeVore
2. You claim Boards has defamed you. In itself that is a defamatory comment. If you took us to court and lost you would immediately fall liable to countersuit.

I have not claimed such. I have not mentioned boards, as an organisation in relation to the defamation.

Originally posted by DeVore
3. You were not calm, lucid or in any way concilliatory even after I attempted to defuse things. Nor were your lackies. In fact I note with humour that while you objected on behalf of your incarcerated grandfather against one distasteful image, a similar image depicting Shinji and Par as hitlers went unnotice.
And then you have the gall to accuse me of double standards.

I would like you to point out where I have been substantially 'un-calm'.

I have no 'lackies'. If someone posts in support of an opinion I voice they do so of their own perogative.

I raised no objection to said image. I think you will find that it is JoeSoap who raised that objection, not me.

Originally posted by DeVore
4. You're supposed attempt to indicate your arrival at the end of your tether included you issuing us with orders as to what to do, punctated with "post haste". Of course since you wont let me reproduce your letter, you get to conveniently hide what you wrote and claim to be the wounded party.

To put it quite simply in terms that you yourself have used, you pissed me off.. I see no reason to be 'helpful' to you in any way.

Originally posted by DeVore
Joev, this is very very simple from my point of view and if it wasnt for the reasonableness of Joesoap I'd have done it long ago.

From this point forward and with the sole exception of this forum I'm issues an instruction for ANY thread relating to Radox or Jarhedz to be deleted on sight, regardless of poster and for that poster to be banned outright forthwith.

This way you will never have a problem with Boards again and we will have no further threat of "legal consultations".

We'll all be happier that way wont we?

DeV.

That's about the best I could have hoped for.

Thanks

joev.

ecksor

Ah, I missed your long post originally DeV. Gosh, we both said 'condescending' and expressed very similar opinions on our honoured guest. The grain runs true this evening.

DeVore

I'm more then happy to take the Pepsi challenge as to who is and isnt being an asshole.


You are hiding behind my politeness of not publishing your mail to me (as you have already falsely me accused me of doing). So be it. I never want to see or hear of Jarhedz or Radox again.

Consider my post at the start of this debacle trying to calm things down. here

Consider my clear anger at you, Jarhedz and Radox, two days later.

Now consider getting some interpersonal skillz.

DeV.

Wolf

hmm TBH I dont think Iv ever seen Devore get quite so annoyed

Anyway I take it the Jarhedz and Radox peeps might not be coming to the Maybeer so

DeVore

I have no beef against anyone involved in those organisations. I will try my level best to be civil regardless who turns up. As I said I've met people involved with them at Megalan and they seemed fine. Just about everyone of them has expressed dismay and anger with the way this has been handled.

You havent seen me angry Wolf, trust me, this is low boil.

DeV.

Wolf

Well thats kinda what I mean you are usually so clam. But I do remember that one guy that hacked boards or somin and you ened up phoning his work now that was funny.

DeVore

Actually the guy who hacked Boards that one time got arrested and his rig was seized. We didnt press charges because weeping 17 year olds bring out my uncharacteristic soft side. :^/

Assholes who think I can be pushed around on the other hand bring out a certain fnck-you militancy.... what can I say *shrug* its a character flaw.


DeV.

fisty

Huzzah!

DeVore

thats not helpful. I'm not sure what would be helpful but I'm pretty sure that isnt it.


DeV.

fisty

point taken

Thorbar

So radox discussions are banned from boards, damn and the cs forum was just getting interesting again. I'm not going to say anything about joev at this point because I want to have to read through another of those arm long posts. Someone really should make a gather card about all of this.

amp

/me subscribes to CS board and offers to buy film rights