Would broadband availability to the whole west take off?

LizzyBethAnn

I was wondering if cable and/or dsl were available to the entire west would it take off?

Could anyone see complications?

spongebob

dsl and cable will only be available in 3 towns in county galway by september 2004, galway is the biggest county on the west coast in size and population, the rest will all have 2 or 3 towns enabled by then and thats that

LizzyBethAnn

Wow. Thats not very much.

spongebob

all the network was recently mortgaged by a bunch of new york bankers, had you not heard?

LizzyBethAnn

Not a word. Tell me about it.

spongebob

Story about Valentia who own most of Eircom who own all the Copper

NTL own the rest along with a shower called Chorus, they are the 2 cable operators.

LizzyBethAnn

muy interesante

spongebob

that needs sorting first, ISDN shoud be available to all by 3006 or so.

email the md of eircom , pnolan@eircom.ie with a nice Dear Phil letter asking him what his plans are between now and end 2004

LizzyBethAnn

Do either of you know the min/max people pay for broadband?

spongebob

min €65 a month including vat + €23 for line rental.....nearly €90

max €200 a month incl VAT for VSAT access which IS universally available in the west but the install cost is horrendous and it is a fairly crap service sometimes, see Typical costs which are ex vat @21%

LizzyBethAnn

So if a cable service was offered, say at like 50 a month, would it work?

MadsL

A spot of market research there LizzyBethAnn is it? Welcome to boards.ie - I'm sure Muck's talents should really win him a consultancy gig?? he's cheap..so I hear

/me puts tongue out of my cheek now....:D

LizzyBethAnn

Yes I am doing a bit of research.

PhilipMarlowe

http://www.unison.ie/cablenet/price.php

I have this cable service in Kilkenny at 50pm
It fills me with an enormous sense of wellbeing knowing that my TV service and Internet are dependent on Chorus... about the same sense of pride I fell in our peices of wet string ISDN lines we have in work. I had the pleasure of speaking to Mary in repairs who didn't seen to want to listen to a word I was saying... I was telling her that todays fault would be exactly the same as the one last week which was also the same as the one the week before on the same line.
And reporting the fault on Thursday will mean it will be looked at on Monday - which means half our digital lines are down over the weekend... I suppose it means we won't have to listen to our damn customers who want to talk to us :rolleyes:

LizzyBethAnn

Liksy, so I take it you're not happy w/ your service?

PhilipMarlowe

BB from Chorus is not bad, reasonably reliable and it's convenient that because I am on digital service here, I also get phone thru the tv cable which means that I could dump eirscum.
It's just that I dont know how much faith to have in Chorus... like I was a trialist of the service here last summer & this week was the first time I got a leaflet drop to say that the service is available.... wtf were they doing for the past year? Can they be serious about this product if they don't try and promote it?

po0k

1MBit/512Kbit xDSL with interleaving turned off, uncapped for ~€80-90 a month including VAT is acceptable with ~€70 quid self-install option.
There should not be any hidden costs (ie Netsources domain registration gig or ESat's bundled router).
Contention ratios should also be approx 20:1 for lower bandwidth connections, and up as far as 30:1 for higher conns.
If this sort of service was provided, there would be massive uptake and would allow tech-orientate business to setup in regions they wouldn't have considered before.
The only reason it is acceptable is because it would be in a rented house so the cost can be split between several people.
It is not cheap enough for a family at home.
By rights we should have 10Mbit full duplex ethernet connections in housing estates with fibre uplinks, create a proper MAN in each city.

LizzyBethAnn

You guys are great! Thank you so much for your help!

spongebob

coz they own all the cable in the wesht!

spongebob

Originally posted by MadsL
I'm sure Muck's talents should really win him a consultancy gig?? he's cheap..so I hear

/me puts tongue out of my cheek now....:D

all the better to lick with Madsl

LizzyBethAnn

No I am not with either of those

Chowley

What company are you working for??:ninja:

LizzyBethAnn

A company that will remain nameless for now, but is very seriously looking at implementing broadband services in the west, hence my market research.

I am very interested in seeing what people desire.

flav0rflav

Do you think this board represents the average punter?

Oh, and if we tell you how much we'll pay, will you tell us your cost price?

spongebob

Originally posted by LizzyBethAnn
A company that will remain nameless for now, but is very seriously looking at implementing broadband services in the west, hence my market research.

I am very interested in seeing what people desire.

humm. PM me in confidence if you want.

Do assume, for research purposes, that we want what we are supposed to have by March 2005. 5Mbit for

Everybody

"Minister for Public Enterprise Mary O'Rourke said she is aiming to have a 5 Mb connection as a standard for Irish homes by 2005. "Regional broadband has become a rallying call," said O'Rourke, who noted that critics have pointed to "a chasm, a deficit" in this area."

Chowley

I am very interested in seeing what people desire

What people desire is broadband availability to all, not just in Dublin.At a reasonable price.

Personally what I want is a 1mb line at a good price and good customer services and no more Eircom style BS.:ninja:

It really is a pity that you are unable to reveal what company you are working for, I certainly think people would be more forthcoming if they knew who they were answering.

QBall

I don't want to start a flame war but...

"Minister for Public Enterprise Mary O'Rourke said she is aiming to have a 5 Mb connection as a standard for Irish homes by 2005. "Regional broadband has become a rallying call," said O'Rourke, who noted that critics have pointed to "a chasm, a deficit" in this area."

...is a little misleading (or misled). Technically you can get a 5MBit (leased line) connection into your home if you want it. Problem is, you have to pay through the nose for it.

The real argument is whether or not we'll have 5MBit connections at an affordable price, and IMHO that's not going to happen any time soon. I'm not 100% sure if it's feasible for a company to provide that kind of bandwidth at a price the Irish consumer will find reasonable. (Maybe LizzyBethAnn can prove me wrong here by giving some figures on telco costs and break-even points).

I'd love to have a 5MBit connection at home but I'm not holding my breath. If the plan does go ahead, I'm buying some shares in some undersea cable laying companies cos they're gonna be busy.

Originally posted by Chowley
Personally what I want is a 1mb line at a good price and good customer services...

Depending on what you mean by "good price" you may have trouble with that. Good customer service is largely dependent on what you pay the CS reps. The pay the reps get is dependent on how succesful the company is. How succesful the company is depends on how much you pay them for the product. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

As an example:
I used to work part time in tech support for Indigo and when I started, the PT pay rate was considered quite good. The standard of the techs was very high (although I maintain the standard of customers was too :-)). Indigo was subsumed into Eircom and the pay the techs were getting did not increase all that much compared to other jobs (when I left, the starting PT rate wasn't far off a burger flipping wage, compared to when I started when it was double the going rate in Burger King). As the years went by, the standard of techs got a little more uneven. Not necessarily worse right across the board, but there were a lot more muppets made it to the phones.

Just my EUR0.02

spongebob

Originally posted by QBall
Not necessarily worse right across the board, but there were a lot more muppets made it to the phones.

Indigo...over time... acquired some of Eircoms core values, uselessness for example

Tiesto

Originally posted by LizzyBethAnn
So if a cable service was offered, say at like 50 a month, would it work?

i dont think so, because cable is not available in many rurals areas as far as i know, and well there is a lot of rural areas in the west

QBall

Originally posted by Muck
Indigo...over time... acquired some of Eircoms core values, uselessness for example

That's a little bit of an unfair generalisation. Some bits did, some bits didn't. I have to agree though, from the outside, it looked like that. In their defence, I have to say that Eircom does have a lot of very good people working for them. Honest, I'm not making that up. :-)

IMHO the onset of GoFree, Eircom Free, OceanFree etc did a lot of damage. If I had a cent for every person I talked to who whined that they had to pay for tech support on a free service I'd be a very rich guy indeed. So many people I talked to honestly expected 100% free Internet access. I was never privy to any figures in Eircom but I honestly don't see how the free services offered by Irish ISPs could make any money for them.

Providing Internet access costs money, lots of money. The sooner the average punter realises this, the better. It's hard for companies like Eircom to hear the true complaints over the deafening whining of people who haven't a clue in their head. Could the service provided by Eircom (and the other telcos and ISPs) be better? Hell yeah. Could they do it at the prices that many average punters expect? Probably not.

I have to say that Ireland Offline has a huge part to play in improving the situation. Unfortunately, the times that I have read threads in the Ireland Offline forum I've had to wade through a lot of ill-informed bullsh*t to see the real, sensible arguments. Too often, it veers towards a "We hate Eircom" forum where people blow off steam rather than present rational arguments. Ireland Offline is a very good mechanism for focussing the complaints made by many people in this country. OTOH Ireland Offline should be extremely careful as it would be very easy for the major telcos/ISPs (not just Eircom) to perceive them as nothing more than a batch of whiners and ignore them.

To bring my post back on-topic, I think it's wonderful to see a telco/ISP doing some research like LizzyBethAnn is doing. Any chance your company will provide services in Dublin? I'd happily give my money to a company which is willing to talk to its customers.

I hate putting in disclaimers but:
Please bear in mind that the views expressed above are mine only and do not necessarily reflect the views of Eircom, Indigo or any other previous employer of mine.

spongebob

Originally posted by QBall
That's a little bit of an unfair generalisation. Some bits did, some bits didn't. I have to agree though, from the outside, it looked like that. In their defence, I have to say that Eircom does have a lot of very good people working for them. Honest, I'm not making that up. :-)

Yes, there are some very good people in Eircom. As a national institution with the interests of the Irish people at heart....it is useless IMHO

I have to say that Ireland Offline has a huge part to play in improving the situation. Unfortunately, the times that I have read threads in the Ireland Offline forum I've had to wade through a lot of ill-informed bullsh*t to see the real, sensible arguments. Too often, it veers towards a "We hate Eircom" forum where people blow off steam rather than present rational arguments.

This is partly because it would be elitist and exclusivist to kick off and moderate the people you complain about.....with justification in your case because you wish to discuss the issues. There is a discussion over there now on how to separate out the forum into a policy forum and a 'social' forum. I take it you would be more interested in the former.

If you accept that a lot of people feel that their service is totally crap (considering it is by far the most expensive line rental in Europe) and that there is nowhere else for people to vent their justifiable frustration with Eircom/Government/Regulator then the IoffL forum is an invaluable social outlet in these times

It appears that the Signal to Noise ratio in there is now being sorted.

M

flav0rflav

LizBethA,

What technology are you looking at using?

DSL, cable, wireless?

[edit]

Sorry, it would appear to be cable from Donegal to Killarney, from my 'research'.

spongebob

see their 'proposition' Here . A trial in the wesht would be very very nice.... ....make sure you paint the balloon maroon b4 it goes up.

Can you see how Donegal has recently become part of Britain again in a top secret referendum or else (more likely) Skylinc have a sneaky underhand deal in place for the Inishowen peninsula or does it appear to be tethered around the Barnesmore ? and Comreg simply haven't told us about it yet.....and neither has Dermot Ahern. Thats because it is top secret hush hush at the moment , Dermot is the minister for Aviation and Communications which is most useful if you have a Static device at 4500 feet which could be an aviation hazard.

Otherwise tis Beam Solutions all over again I fear or some twaddle to make the Atlantic Technology Corridor PR bunnies look like they are "doing something" ...... I expect very little from Liz given the vague level of questions so far. Thats sad, been around too long probably !

M

QBall

Originally posted by Muck
Yes, there are some very good people in Eircom. As a national institution with the interests of the Irish people at heart....it is useless IMHO

I would argue that Eircom is not a national institution but a private company and as such does not (and in fact should not) have the interests of the Irish people at heart. Its only loyalty is to its shareholders[1], and the way it serves them is by screwing every last penny out of the customers. In short, it's a business, not a public service.

I find it ironic that a lot of people who complain about Eircom still having a civil service mentality seem to expect them to act like a public service.

Originally posted by Muck

This is partly because it would be elitist and exclusivist to kick off and moderate the people you complain about.....with justification in your case because you wish to discuss the issues. There is a discussion over there now on how to separate out the forum into a policy forum and a 'social' forum. I take it you would be more interested in the former.

If you accept that a lot of people feel that their service is totally crap (considering it is by far the most expensive line rental in Europe) and that there is nowhere else for people to vent their justifiable frustration with Eircom/Government/Regulator then the IoffL forum is an invaluable social outlet in these times

Good points, but for someone looking in from the outside what you see and hear is whining, not rational, helpful discussion. The noise levels tarnish Ireland Offline's reputation and hence make it easy for the telcos/Government/Regulator to pay less attention to them.

Originally posted by Muck
It appears that the Signal to Noise ratio in there is now being sorted.

I certainly hope so. The noise levels are a hindrance to the good work that Ireland Offline do.

Anyway, this has gone quite off-topic, so I'm going to stop.

[1] Yes, I know how daft this sounds, but it's what Eircom should be aiming at. I am (or at least was until recently) a shareholder and expected the company to do its best to improve the value of my shares.

LizzyBethAnn

Wow! I am impressed at all of the great responses! At the moment, my company is looking at cable. From what I understand, the west does not have much of the infrastructure for it. Is that true?

As far as what everyone wants, I am very interested in seeing more. The prices will undoubtedly be affordable. For home use, I would love to hear what kind of prices everyone considers affordable.

As far as isp, I believe that the company will serve that purpose.

Let me know of any concerns, desires, etc... so I may research and address them.

We are looking at doing this for the entire west, Donegal all the way down to Kerry. That will take time, but it is the goal.

Let me know of anything else you guys wish to say!

Thank you so much for all of your help!

Liz

spongebob

by end 2003 there will be plenty of fibre so you can run 1000baselx or stm1 if you want over that.

good luck with the local loop.

aim at 512/128 24:1 and no more than €49.99 incl vat @21% per month, that gives you a clear advantage

M

LizzyBethAnn

I do not work for skylinc and have absolutely nothing to do w/ the Brits. Neither am I trying to be sneaky. This is just basic market research.

po0k

Originally posted by Muck
by end 2003 there will be plenty of fibre so you can run 1000baselx or stm1 if you want over that.

good luck with the local loop.

aim at 512/128 24:1 and no more than €49.99 incl vat @21% per month, that gives you a clear advantage

M

interleaving turned off, cheap self-install option (if the last mile tech allows it - obviously not possible on a general basis for wireless), MUST BE UNCAPPED or at the very least have a very large cap (20 gigs pm and a cheap cost per gig after that (say ~30c per gig).

this 4gig + 3c per meg (~€30 per gig) bull is useless.

I would've signed up for eircom's i-stream ages ago had they not been pushing such a restrictive and plain useless package.
What good is a fast always-on low-latency connection if you've got to be counting the pennies while using it? Especially at the high entry cost for the connection in the first place.

spongebob

Originally posted by LizzyBethAnn
Neither am I trying to be sneaky. This is just basic market research.

Skylinc may be Brits but they can run a tesht in the wesht anytime as far as I am concerned. It would be invisible in the clouds for about 200 days a year in the wesht.

M