How to force a vote of no cofidence in the Government?

Trebor

Well does anybody know how to do this?

or to force another general election?

i know it's a shot in the dark but i don't think i can wait another 4 years with them in power!!

Sparks

Can't be done by a member of the great unwashed. Can't be brought in by an opposition TD (well, it can, but it won't pass thanks to the majority FF have). Can't even be called for by the media, as the constitution limits freedom of speech for the media to prevent that from happening.

Welcome to Ireland.
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Trebor
Well does anybody know how to do this?

or to force another general election?

i know it's a shot in the dark but i don't think i can wait another 4 years with them in power!!

Indeed and if it is changed in 4 years time,We can watch the replacement doing lots of things we don't like either.
Thats politics and opposition for ya...
When a party are in opposition, they can be populist on whatever issue, they want.
FG have been particularily following that course of late, in a blatantly open way.
And no doubt FF will be at it if they go out.
Welcome to Réal politik.
mm

vasch_ro

Galvanise the sleeping giant that is the anger of a nation being run rough shod all over , people power is the order of the day mobilise the people
protest outside the dail and win over public opinion to your point of view to get a motion of no confidence in

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Trebor
Well does anybody know how to do this?

or to force another general election?

i know it's a shot in the dark but i don't think i can wait another 4 years with them in power!!

Thats representative democracy for you. I'm glad it's that way even though I did not vote for the current government.

Meh

Originally posted by Sparks
Can't even be called for by the media, as the constitution limits freedom of speech for the media to prevent that from happening.

Really? I didn't know this, can you elaborate?

(not disputing your facts, just curious because I've never heard of this before)

Sparks

vasch_ro - we had the largest protest in the history of the sate to get the government not to let the US use shannon and it wasn't just overruled, it was claimed as a sign of support for bertie! Public protest is simply insufficent as a method of causing political action.

Man,
Yup, that's why I don't support representational democracy.

Pompey Magnus

listen mate, if you could get another election tomorrow all those bitching about them today would go out and give Fianna Fail their number 1 vote because "ah, sure Bertie is such a lovely fellow" and we will believe all the marvelous promises they give us about how well off we will be if we elect them back in. It has happened over the last God knows how many decades and will continue to happen . Fianna Fail knows this and they know they can get away with screwing us over time and time again and end up in office next time round. Such is Irish politics. To be fair to Irish people though I think most politicians are the same which is why I can't bring myself to support any of the major parties.

Sparks

Meh,
Constitution Article 40, section 6 :

6.1) The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:--
(i) The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.
The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of
such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavor to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.
The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law.

Calling for a motion of no confidence in the current government could be seen as breaching this - but after Horgan's case, I don't know if any article in the constitution can be held as absolute anymore.

vasch_ro

100,000 out of how many ???

vasch_ro

I had something like the million man march in mind
a peaceful protest
other than this suggestion , I would suggest that you pass a brown envelope to a sitiing TD in a car park in return for him entering the motion

Sparks

150,000.
And the point was that that was the biggest protest in the history of the state.
It represents 5% of the population actually getting up and coming into dublin to march, in one of the world's most politically apathetic populations.
Now you can argue that that 150,000 were the only people opposed to war if you want - but since we never had a referendum on the matter, I can argue that those that didn't show up were also against the war, with an equal amount of proof and therefore an equal amount of credibility.

ps. The million man march wasn't

Originally posted by Sparks
vasch_ro - we had the largest protest in the history of the sate to get the government not to let the US use shannon and it wasn't just overruled, it was claimed as a sign of support for bertie! Public protest is simply insufficent as a method of causing political action.

Man,
Yup, that's why I don't support representational democracy.

Out of curiousity, what system do you support?
Also, and this is not meant as a challenge to your views on either Shannon or Iraq( as we've had plenty of debates on that )
but , the publics view has changed a bit, on the use of Shannon, with the last opinion poll on the subject.
Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of that for now,wasn't Bertie using the system well, in taking the gamble that people would change their minds?
It can work the opposite way as well of course, considering Margaraet thatchers trenchant persistance with the Poll Tax, in the face of massive opposition to it.
Actually thats an example of protest winning in a democracy.
would you not consider representative democracy a system that can deliver, a strong government, one that is capable of leading people through tough and temporarily unpopular but necessary decisions at times,decisions for the longer term good as opposed to short term favour.
I personally favour people having the power on election day to vote for who they choose and if they think they have made a suffecient mistake they can vote a different way the next time.
mm

Sparks

Man,

Out of curiousity, what system do you support?

Direct democracy.

the publics view has changed a bit, on the use of Shannon, with the last opinion poll on the subject.

A poll taken by an english company... and whose details (how many people, what questions asked, what criterea used, etc.) I haven't been able to find.

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of that for now,wasn't Bertie using the system well, in taking the gamble that people would change their minds?

In the same way that Stalin used the system well, yes.

would you not consider representative democracy a system that can deliver, a strong government, one that is capable of leading people through tough and temporarily unpopular but necessary decisions at times,decisions for the longer term good as opposed to short term favour.

I consider it unable to deliver an uncorruptable government, and I believe that the social circumstances that made it a good idea have long since changed.

I personally favour people having the power on election day to vote for who they choose and if they think they have made a suffecient mistake they can vote a different way the next time.

I prefer the people having power for more than one day every five years, since they pay taxes for more than one day every five years...

Originally posted by Sparks
Man,
Direct democracy.
I prefer the people having power for more than one day every five years, since they pay taxes for more than one day every five years...

Would that not lead to massive indecision /anarchy with no consistant policy followed??
Perhaps not,Bonkey, is fairly in tune with that system, and I'd agree it appears at face value to be a good one.
Although in this country, we'd be having, Divorce and abortion referendums , fairly regularly, as there might always be enough to sign petitions for referendums on those subjects after mass.
Perhaps it might depend on the mindset of the people as to whether it would be suited or not, but I'll not be the judge of that.
This is an interesting piece on the subject.

In the same way that Stalin used the system well, yes.

I'm tempted..........,to go down that road, but we've done it before here so lets not.
mm