Irish parents....

Bicky

Last night my parents had a little row. Anything strange about this?
In the bigger picture probably not, couples argue all the time i hear you think.
But Its the first time i can remember them showing any kind of emotion towards each other. For as long as i can remember they seem to act like they are employees in a company which specialises in rearing three children and working until they are too old to spend their hard earned money.
I often contemplate how miserable they must be; plodding through their monotonous little lives. How can they enjoy themselves when they were brought up in a society which courted self loathing, manifesting itself through the catholic church!
I am sick of all this. Right now i feel the burden of fullfilling their dreams. College exam stress. Two hours before an exam i predict i will fail and i cant study. I want to study, as i want to do well but only to please them. To what end?
I think of Tyler Durden. After graduating from college he calls his father and asks "what now?" He is told to get a job. He turns twenty five calls his father and asks "Now what?" His father says "I don't know. Get married."

But the horrible irony of the situation is the absolute and total knowledge which i have carefully hidden away in the recess of my brain, that one day i will be just like my father.
I can see it already, my son will phone me looking for advice and after a slight pause during which i contemplate the day i realised i could never be special, i will answer "I don't know. Get married."

Sposs

I dont think its any right of yours to call your parents lives mundane,your simply like every teenage person who see's their parents as "old fashioned" and "uncool" , your parents are still together because they love each other and enjoy being together they work to feed and put clothes on your back im sure its not because they enjoy it.

Im sure your parents could tell you a thing or two about their younger days that would prob shock you,but guess what happened? they grew up ,it happens us all and someday it might even happen to you.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

erm
i'm thinking you missed the point of his post entirely..

but anyway, my parents seem kinda the same.. they don't really talk to each other, and when they do it often results in an argument, or snide bitchy little comments being flung back and forth. *shrug* I've gotten used to it now, it's been going on for so long.. once I and my sister move out of the house, they are both going to be there on their own, they can either work through it or keep on the way they are. I just really don't care any more.


as for never being special, **** that.. **** marriage, **** college, **** everything and do whatever makes you happy. there's no set plan to life, the best advice you could give to your son down the line is to just be himself and follow his dreams (ick, cliche).

Beruthiel

I have to agree with sposs here
Your parents are a product of their time, as are you.
If you have never heard them argue than that in itself is truly remarkable.
I used to wonder how my parents were still together as they behaved a lot like yours – then my father had an accident and it was touch and go for a few weeks with him – my mother aged 10 years in those few weeks, I saw in her eyes that if he went she would be lost beyond words, half of her would have gone there and then. That made me see them both in a whole new light – if they want more for you than they had for themselves, does this not mean they love you? Every parent under the sun, who loves their children, wants more for them. Do not see it as a pressure, just do the best you can, after all, this is for you yourself. You can decide later what it is you want to do with your life.

LegacyUser

Hey I think I know how you feel. I’m 26. My parents have been like yours for as long as I can remember (20+ years) I can’t recall them ever having a major argument but likewise I’ve never observed them being affectionate towards each other. They’ve always behaved more like a brother and sister than a husband and wife. Or as you say, like business partners. Working their a*ses off, saving up their money, constantly planning for the future and never living for NOW. Always planning for a "rainy day". Never doing anything spontaneous or fun or risky or exciting or interesting or different. Never showing any emotion. Plodding through their lives going to Mass every Sunday saying their prayers and begging forgiveness for their "sins".

My parents have passed on their serious outlook on life to me. All through school I was a total swot always trying to do well academically. Same thing in college. It was drummed into me from an early age that you work hard in school and college you graduate with 1st class honours at which point your life really begins. You get a good job, a wife, a mortgage and live happily ever after. Well sorry, but that’s not how it has worked out for me. Nothing is as I imagined it would be and I feel cheated. Its like I have been preparing myself for this moment all my life now that I have reached my goal it’s all a huge anti-climax.

My parents brought me up to be a decent person with strong morals and a sense of what’s right and wrong. I was brought up to have respect for others, to be honest and considerate etc. Also brought up as a good Catholic. Well f**k all that it has gotten me NOWHERE. It seems to me that in modern society you’re rewarded if you’re an absolute p***k who treats everyone you come across like dirt, have no morals whatsoever and walk all over anyone who gets in your way.

One of the worst parts for me is - while I was devoting my life to study/work, I missed out on developing social skills. All those years while I was working my b***ox off I really missed out on the social side of life which is something I really regret. Also, its difficult (impossible?) to suddenly become a social animal at my age when you’ve been the total opposite all your life. I also feel that I don’t know how to enjoy myself or have fun or express emotions - so in that respect I’ve turned out exactly like my parents. I have never had a girlfriend and have very few friends. I’m an idiot when it comes to women whatever it is that women want from guys, I haven’t got it. I’m guessing that I’m just a boring person to be around.

You only get one shot at life and its doesn’t last that long. I could be hit by a bus tomorrow or get terminal cancer and I’d have to ask myself - what exactly have I been doing with my life? Even if I do live to an old age I haven’t that much time left. Approx. 1/3 of my life is gone and the last 1/3 is pretty pointless IMO ‘cause you’re too old to enjoy it. So that just leaves me with the middle 1/3. My teens and twenties have been crap and if I don’t manage to turn things around soon, my 30’s and 40’s will be the same. It’s scary.

I guess this is straying a little off topic from the original post however I think my feelings are somewhat related to those of the original poster.

Wolf

Originally posted by 1/4 life crisis
You only get one shot at life and its doesn’t last that long. I could be hit by a bus tomorrow or get terminal cancer and I’d have to ask myself - what exactly have I been doing with my life? Even if I do live to an old age I haven’t that much time left. Approx. 1/3 of my life is gone and the last 1/3 is pretty pointless IMO ‘cause you’re too old to enjoy it. So that just leaves me with the middle 1/3. My teens and twenties have been crap and if I don’t manage to turn things around soon, my 30’s and 40’s will be the same. It’s scary.

Its your life. If you dont like it do something about it change it. Dont blame your past or your parents. Its your life do something with it if you want to.

WhiteWashMan

believe it or not, people dont get a 'guide to parenting' book when they had you.

you are born, and your parents cope. they do whatever they canto get along, to make ends meet, adn to continue to have relationship with their significant other.
just because you dont see the joys, the sadness and the sorrow ond the highs and lows of their lives together.

do you think your mother didnt havea few good shags with strangers when she was a teen?
or that your father didnt try it on with some bit of fluff at a disco
do you think that when they go to bed they dont talk until you appear because they have nothing to say?
do you think they dont have sex just because you dont know about it?

your parents have their own lives, and just because you think its boring, is your problem. of course, they could have decided to go to guatamala and become pig herders when you were born, but they didnt.

if you want to please them, go out, get a good job and give them all the money you sucked out of them while they looked after you.

otherwise, i would suggest you think carefully next time you feel like being passremarkable about a couple of people you sound like you nothing about.

Bicky

Sposs >> The fact that you cannot understand my situation and the background to which i was raised does not give you the right to pigeon hole me as a stereotypical teenager. I am not a teenager.
Whitewashman >> Why do you jump down the throat of someone who you know nothing about? You think by a short few lines i post you can analyze my life? I have lived in constant fear of failing them all my life. Never have i been able to live up to my sister in their eyes. But she didnt have it easy either. Despite her constant achievments she is an emotional wreck because we were as children always compared to "better" children. To them i am a bad child because i drank before the age of 21. I am wreckless because i want to enjoy my summers and not work on a building site.

I never said my parents dont love me or each other for that matter. In fact i believe it would kill one to see the other hurt.
That said the fact remains that i have never seen them kiss or hug or show any kind of love or affection. Their life is mundane, mabey they dont know it because they have never experienced and different and that is not their fault.
My father is a very straight laced garda who was raised in a typically strict catholic background. He likes to work 60 hour weeks regardless of the fact that they have come into a lot of money. They dont have to make ends meet. When i was 16 i dyed my hair and he did not speak to me for months. Anyone with a pierceing is a thug or a fag.
My mother spent the first twenty years of her life on a small remote island off the coast of ireland. Neither drink or smoke, in fact my mother has never even tasted alcohol.
I live most of my life to please them. Typically fullfilling their dreams of college and a high paying job. When i started this thread i felt worse than i have in a long long time. Not because "i" was scared i would fail but more i was scared that my parents would hate me for failing.
Now mabey you understand why i was depressed and angry this morning!!
1/4 life crisis i am you in a few years. You are not going off topic because this is exactly what i mean.
All i want is to be happy in myself and not through the expectations of others.

Sposs

Yes but if their happy,its nothing to do with you!

Move out so,get a job ,pay rent and go wild or shut up.

Bicky

I have lived away from home for pretty much three years.
I do work and pay my way. I have a social life.
You have completely missed the point of my thread.
Mabey you dont understand but their happiness does depend on me and my sisters.
The point "i want to live up to their expectations but cannot"

I would appreciate if you would stop being so narrow minded.

Ivan

Originally posted by Sposs
Yes but if their happy,its nothing to do with you!

Move out so,get a job ,pay rent and go wild or shut up.

Grow Up.

Gordon

I think the fact that your post is originally slightly ambiguous in its pointed topic is the reason why you are not being fulfilled here Bicky. It starts off with gripes against your parents making you sound, no disrespect intended, younger than your age. It then moves on to the fact that you don't like the fact that you are living your life for your parents wishes.

Can we tone down the insults guys, yeah I know they're not very insulting but 'in for a snowflake in for a snowball in the face' etc.

I think, Bicky, you should read closer the points made by all posters above, there is some good advice there even if it doesn't directly apply to your precise situation.

TomTom

I can see where you are coming from with living up to their expectations, I am in the middle of doing my exams and I am not scared of failing but i am scared of my parents reaction. My mother does be sympathetic, but with my father i get comments such "I worked hard to put you through college, so you could have the opertunities I never had" the thing is i never wanted to do college in the first place i wanted to become an electricion. I was begged and pleded with to try college. Now I also feel that if I do not pass I am letting them down.

I think my father wants to live out what he always wanted to do through me. Even though I can't play sports well, he is always passing remarkes about "I wish I could still play hurling, why don't you pick it up" My responce is always no to which he follows with a rant about how I have no interist in anything and that i should be thankfull for what i got. It's a sport for gods sake.

I have moved out of home in the last year, and since i have bumped into my parents more as socially friends than as their son. The da will buy me a pint, give out to me for not doing this or that with my life, but now i go home to a different house a walk away from it all. Which is nice.

To summarise, I think a lot of parents try and get their kids to compinsate what they missed out on because the opportunitys were not there and i don't think it's fair.

Bicky

You are right gordon.
I was tired, depressed and worried this morning and my post was an ambiguous rant.
Mabey if it had been someone else starting the thread i would have said the same thing but tbh i was shocked and upset by the way sposs and whitewash jumped to judge and criticise me.

ToxicPaddy

Havent had the time to read all posts in this thread... but..

My parents are in their late 50's and are enjoying life to the max at the moment.. my dad is self employed so can basically choose the hours he wants to work and my mum doesnt work, well she's a house wife, so yes she does work but not in paid employment.. anyway..

They seem to be out more than I am, a lot more, my dad basically lives on a golf course and my mum is always going for lunch with friends or going here or there.. and is just back from the Canaries after a hen week!!!!

Everytime she goes on a hen night, she leaves the younger ones to shame.. but not a bad way..

So i dont think its really up to the era in which they were brought up in, but it may be a contributing factor... Both sides of my parents familes are big into having a good social life, without over doing it on drink or anything like that.. and this is probably why my parents are as they are...

So maybe your parents seem boring to you as they have different values and yes they have routines that seem boring to you, but maybe they are just happy having little or no hassles and like the quiet life...

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Bicky
You are right gordon.
I was tired, depressed and worried this morning and my post was an ambiguous rant.
Mabey if it had been someone else starting the thread i would have said the same thing but tbh i was shocked and upset by the way sposs and whitewash jumped to judge and criticise me.

people can only reply to what you have written.
i dont think people have jumped down your throat, i think some people have given you some viewpoints that perhaps you werent prepared for.
not everything that is said here is supportive or helpful. sometimes people give other people the verbal equivalant to a slap in the face with a cold haddock.
i dont see why you are trying to live your life through your parents. why does your happiness depend on them smiling on oyu from above?

why canyou you go out in your life and forage for yourself and make yourself happy? i think you are using your parents as a crutch, and your unhappiness has nothing to do with them, its merely a convienent excuse to be miserable.

but thats what i think.

by the way, as with criticism, you should take it as a neautral thing. its not all doom and gloom, you should learn to take criticism the same way you would compliments. both are helpful and point out what other people percieve as a problem. some people just make their criticisms more harsh than others. although i do agree with sposs on this one.

Sposs

was shocked and upset by the way sposs and whitewash jumped to judge and criticise me.

i wasn't trying to jump on you or put you down bicky (well not intentionally ) the problem was your posts were coming across as a teenager pìssed off living at home giving out cause your parents wouldn't let you get a piercing or whatever,after reading more i apologise as that doen't seem to be the case.

Anyway if your worried just talk to your parents and explain how your feeling!

BossArky

*group hug*

Sposs

Originally posted by BossArky
*group hug*

You'd do anything for a quick feel

amp

Soon I hope to open an instutuition to care for people by shouting at them loudly and smacking them round until they see sense.

Patient: I've got this problem see...
Doctor: NO YOU DON'T! GET UP OFF YOUR ARSE!
Patient: but...
Doctor slaps patient in the face as hard as possible
Doctor: DON'T DARE CRITICISE MY METHODS! YOU'RE WEAK! BE STRONG! IT'S THAT SIMPLE!
Patient runs away from hosipital in tears.
Doctor: I CAN'T SEE THE PATIENT, THEREFORE THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED, NOT THAT IT WAS THERE TO BEGIN WITH!

new patient enters:

Patient: I'm pregnant see..
DOCTOR: NO YOU'RE NOT! *doctor notices bump* YOU'RE STUPID! WHY'D YOU DO THAT THEN?
Patient: eh well I just want some advice..
DOCTOR: OH GOD WHY DO YOU PEOPLE COME HERE? WHY ARE YOU SO WHINGY!
Patient: I just...
DOCTOR: IT'S YOU'RE OWN STUPID FAULT! NEXT!
Doctor slaps patient upside the head..

The Amp Institute of Abusing People Till They Go Away will shortly be set up in the Recycle Bin (Hi Sico), credit cards not accepted. This is not a guarantee. Nor this.

McGinty

Hi Bicky

I was in your shoes to a degree a few years ago, living my life in the hope of winning my parents approval and acceptance, however with that mindset, you will never get it, its like finding the proverbrial pot of gold under the rainbow. Learn to approve of yourself, it won't happen overnight, but when you do something that YOU are pleased with, give yourself a pat on the back.

I do beleive that your parents are serious and strait laced but that doesn't mean you have to be that way, however if you want to be yourself you will be criticised by them, you have two options, have nothing to do with them or alternatively look them squarely in the eye and say I like my job / hairstyle / clothes / lifestyle, etc. It will take guts but you will feel so much better in yourself, and their approval won't matter, and you feel freer to do what pleases you.

As a parent myself now, I can see the sacrifices my parents made, but I have also learned that parents aren't Gods, they are just people, who make mistakes and f*** up. It sounds unfortunate that your parents are using emotional blackmail, but they are human and you are an adult now, you don't need to accept what they say.

1/4 Life crisis, your life is not over, you are so young, it may feel that way. I read somewhere that to get the most out of life, ask yourself what do you want out of life, then get out there and do it. Also just a bit of food for thought, Mary Wesley is an author I love, she started writing at the age of 73 and became a very well know author for nearly 20 years before her death. At the moment I can't think of other examples of older people who did well. Like you I hated being a teenager, I was fat, shy and felt ugly. During my early and mid twenties I was busy trying to be anyone else but me. Thankfully towards my late twenties events propelled me to change my mindset, and now I love getting older, don't despair, life can get better if you want.

Victor

Originally posted by Bicky
I think of Tyler Durden. After graduating from college he calls his father and asks "what now?" He is told to get a job. He turns twenty five calls his father and asks "Now what?" His father says "I don't know. Get married."

Then do what Jack ("the narrator") did, change things for the batter, leave a legacy.

Yes you will be an image of you father / those around you, but not a photocopy.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by amp
Soon I hope to open an instutuition to care for people by shouting at them loudly and smacking them round until they see sense.

Anyone who has ever seen Richard Bandler (one of the co-creators of NLP) in action is probably laughing at this: it's very much his style (when it suits).

One of his books describes a client physically (and quite roughly) dragging his daughter in because she was sleeping around and he wanted Bandler to talk sense into her. It went something like:

Bandler: What's the problem?

Parent: She's a little whore!!

Bandler: I don't need a whore, I have a girlfriend.

Parent: (confused) No no, you don't understand, I'm her father...

Bandler: What, you pimp your daughter? That's disgusting!!

Parent: (thoroughly confused) No no, that's not what I meant...

Nothing if not unorthodox, our Richard.

Amp, you're not an NLPer by any chance?

Bicky

I have to be honest in that when i started this thread i was suffering from lack of sleep. It was a rant, not so much a criticisim of my parents but of myself.
I see it already. I act like my father, especially in relationships.
I am moody and resentfull of others and jealous of what everyone else accomplishes over me.
I think a lot of people, especially from strict irish/catholic backgrounds can relate with me on this!
Please dont picture me as a manic depressant or a spoilt kid. Anyone who knows me will tell you i am not. I just see this scary side of me and am able to admit it. (and place the blame )

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

FreaK_BrutheR

You're a bad girl.... go to my room.

ballooba

My parents have been married for 30 years, must of that they spent together out of spite for the other .

Nah, they have loads of rows which is really stupid because next year when my little sis leaves home as someone else said bout their folks, they will be alone. i'm sure they have though about this individually but neither have mentioned it.

My mum does college now and my dad spends a bit of time with us up in Dublin and visits the in laws (sisters husband's family) in the north when the GAA is on. they don't really seem to do much together which is a pity but maybe that will change when my mam finishes college (today actually her finals finish). i can't deny that it is something that I think about quite often as i'm sure every single member of my family does even though i don't think anyone has mentioned it.

God knows what my dad is going to do when he quits work. [Queue jaws music]

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Bicky
I have to be honest in that when i started this thread i was suffering from lack of sleep. It was a rant, not so much a criticisim of my parents but of myself.
I see it already. I act like my father, especially in relationships.
I am moody and resentfull of others and jealous of what everyone else accomplishes over me.
I think a lot of people, especially from strict irish/catholic backgrounds can relate with me on this!
Please dont picture me as a manic depressant or a spoilt kid. Anyone who knows me will tell you i am not. I just see this scary side of me and am able to admit it. (and place the blame )

im sorry, but im still a bit confused.
its always nice to learn about yourself when you step back and take in the things that you miss in daily life.
wood. trees. cant see. etc
however, im still not sure what your whole point is for your post.
to be honest, its ounds like you are a normal person to me.
everyone is jealous of others accomplishments. i have been jealous of other people getting better jobs than me, of getting nicer cars than me, of having better standards of living, of buying houses, of having families, of just about everything.
the worse thing is, you start being horrible to people youve known for years because they appear to be doing well for themselves and you cant stand it. you try and pick on every little weakness they expose because you hate the fact that they appear happy and contented and have a company car and nice house, while you drive an old micra and live with your family
so i wouldnt worry about it. i was like that for years. i felt so bad about it because i would be just horrible to people i cared about, and the worse thing was i didnt even realise why i was doing it.
i just figured one day that instead of living at home, instead of driving a crap car, instead of having a crap job, i would try and better everything about myself, step by little step. it took a lot of time, a lot of effort, and lot of tears along the way if the truth be known, but i htink its a personl pilgramage that everyone goes through in life. mine was tough. i hope yours is easy like winning the lotto
dont be too harsh on acting like your father. all you have to go on is the way you percieve him to be. he may not be all that. how do you change? i dont know. i guess you just are.

with regard to spoilt or moody, well, yeah, you are moody! no two ways about it! we all are. again, dont worry aobut it. as for spoilt, well i dont know you enough
you do sound like you ahave far toooo much time on your hands for wacky thoughts!
if you look at yourself and have figured out all these things, then its good. self analysis is always good. with regard to blame placement,then when you have gone through everyone, look at yourself and you will often see tha blame lie at your own feet. and once you realise this and why there is blame, its easy to sweeep away and change.
its not all the end of the world stuff

Beruthiel

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
how do you change? i dont know. i guess you just are.

how do you change?
very simple and yet very difficult
you put yourself into situations you normally would not dream of and then you are forced to deal with them, each new experience changes you, a little or a lot, before you know it, you look back after 10 years and you no longer are the person you are right now – get out and start living, don’t wait for tomorrow

this reminds me of the book - The Dice Man by Luke Rhinehart

Kell

Bicky- why on earth would you seek to keep your parents happy or fulfil their dreams? Already you are beginning to resent this little facet of your personality by critiscing them.

In order to change I think that the arse has to drop out of your world for a short time to make you realise that the buck stops with you and you are the centre of your own universe. Not your parents universe, nor your girlfriends, not your friends. Yours. Forget about trying to keep anyone else happy and make sure that any achievements that you gain are done for you and no one else. Remember Dolf Lundgren in Rocky 4? Quote: "I dont fight for Russia, I fight for me". Cheesy example but a true one. Make sure that you follow your own path and not someone elses cos you'll spend your life trying to keep other people happy which is fruitless and only causes you hassle. If your dad is half a man he'll respect you for making up your own mind and living your own life.

K-

josh40

I'm probably one of the oldest posters here and one of the (few) advantages of that is that I get to see things from both sides.

Growing up in Ireland, I always felt that I couldn't let my parents down, despite this I did many times, and we all survived it.We have to make our own decisions and mistakes, and we inevitably hurt our parents along the way, this is part of life.

No parent owns his child, no parent has the right to dictate what his child should do in life. Most parents try to do this , to some extent. I know all this because I have two kids. One of whom has just become a teenager, and already the struggle has started. I bug him to do his homework, I have already chosen which university , he'll go to and what he'll study. I know I shouldn't do this, I know he has to make his own way in life but as his mother, sometimes I just can't help myself! We always want our kids to have more that we had, to do more that we did. No it's not fair, but it is life!

I hope , I will be strong enough to back off when necessary, but mostly I hope we have raised him to be strong enough and confident enough to tell us to back off. I hope , he grows up knowing that although he may not fulfill my dreams for him, I know deep down that they are my dreams and not his.

Growing up in Greece, my kids have no problems expressing their feelings openly and are a lot more comfortable with open displays of emotion, lots of hugs etc, than I ever was.

This is one of the problems in Ireland, most people, especially older ones don't express their feelings. If they did, communication would be much easier and people would understand each other more.

Sorry for rambling onbut there comes a time when you have to live your own life, you may be surprised at how well your parents adjust to new situations.