Irelands Democratic Deficit

budgies_tongue

Ireland is going down the tubes

We have a Government who came to power from a combination of porkies told about how well we were doing coupled with the only alternative Government having no ability to tell us how bad we actually were doing.

Since then the fortunes of the country have headed south.

Unemployment is rising at a serious rate, the true figures skewed by a rise in public sector employment. The economy is in decline again the true figures skewed by the rise in the value of the € against the US€ and stg£.

But worst of all, I would suggest, is the current state of the public health sevice. Another 250 beds are to close in the 5 Dublin teaching hospitals. Over spending, under investment and gross mismangement has brought the service to its knees. And as for the SARS episode..? To illustrate how the crisis was managed check out the link below from todays New York Times from which the following quote is taken

After a crucial meeting on March 9 with members of the World Health Organization, the government decided to fight the outbreak openly and aggressively, Ms. Plant said. A task force was formed, information gathering was centralized and virtually the whole government was mobilized to deal with the infection and its consequences.

Great you think - Yeah for VIETNAM!!!

Ireland on the other hand stumbled from one cock up to another.

But therein lies our problem.

We have a crowd in power of limited ability making an arse of most things, arrogant in their own belief and dismissive of the views of others highlighted in their ignoring of the public viewpoint in respect of USAF Shannon because 'they know best..'

However there is no credible alternative. A loosely joined cabal of a right of centre establishment party, one issue only independents and the idealogues of the Greens, Labour and the Shinners will never work.

There you have it - a democratic deficit. Damned if we do and damned if we dont. Checkmate. Ireland down the tubes

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/07/international/asia/07VIET.html?th

CCCP^

My dear budgies_tongue, it is all very well and good to realise the utter ineptitude of our current Goverment, the point however, is to change it. Our plight is not as hopeless as you make it seem.

Sparks

CCCP,
A solution? Now this I have to hear...

Cork

Originally posted by budgies_tongue


We have a crowd in power of limited ability making an arse of most things, arrogant in their own belief and dismissive of the views of others highlighted in their ignoring of the public viewpoint in respect of USAF Shannon because 'they know best..'

However there is no credible alternative. A loosely joined cabal of a right of centre establishment party, one issue only independents and the idealogues of the Greens, Labour and the Shinners will never work.

There you have it - a democratic deficit. Damned if we do and damned if we dont. Checkmate. Ireland down the tubes

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/07/international/asia/07VIET.html?th

We have PR in this country so this country has no democratic deficit.

The policy with regards to Shannon airport was implemented by various governments.

Unemployment is rising. I am currently job seeking at the minute & it is no picnic out there.

But Ireland's economy is doing ok compared to that of other EU countries.

Sparks

We have PR in this country so this country has no democratic deficit.

PR doesn't do a damn thing unless you have a valid range of selections, and frankly the omission of "none of the above" is sufficent in my mind to render our electoral system unfair.

The policy with regards to Shannon airport was implemented by various governments.

As revealed by Horgan's high court case, this is in fact not true - shannon policy has changed markedly from government to government for the past 50 years.

gandalf

Originally posted by Cork
We have PR in this country so this country has no democratic deficit.

Well if you don't have a proper choice then there is a "democratic deficit". I don't think there will be a proper choice in this country until the civil war mentality of our voters changes. Unfortunately I believe that alot of people vote for parties because it was the one their families always voted for before. I also believe that the parish pump needs to be removed (or lessened) from national politics (I have posted a remedy to this ages ago which suggested halving the number of TD's in Dail Eireann therefore increasing the catchment areas that they serve, therefore negating the "he's one of ours" effects. I must try and find that post).

(found it - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36665&highlight=dail+eireann )

The policy with regards to Shannon airport was implemented by various governments.

Yes but the current crowd said they would only allow its use if there was additional Security council resolution. Looks like they lied about that as well.

Unemployment is rising. I am currently job seeking at the minute & it is no picnic out there.

Good luck with the search is is nasty out there. I'm keeping my eye open as my current employer is looking at relocating.

But Ireland's economy is doing ok compared to that of other EU countries.

Sorry Cork I'd actually contest that. We have some of the highest prices in the EU because the Government have failed to tackle inflation and thanks to rises in taxs back in Jan actually formed a major part of the increases. I think I am in the right in saying there has been a severe mismanagement of the Finances by the Government and the blame lies squarely at the door of Charlie McCreevy and Bertie Ahern.

Gandalf.

Cork

I think I am in the right in saying there has been a severe mismanagement of the Finances by the Government and the blame lies squarely at the door of Charlie McCreevy and Bertie Ahern.

I think that some of the plans that the government had in the national development plan were plain crazy.

Building 4 lane dual carriage ways instead of utilising existing main routes was a crazy concept.

I don't think there will be a proper choice in this country until the civil war mentality of our voters changes.

The demise of FG as a political force is evidence that civil war politics has lessened.

But persuming partys other than FF, FG or Labour will offer radical policies is not a certainty.

New Labours policies in the UK are not very differant to our own government.

When you come down it it - The Civil Service administers the country.

Even with social partership - the unions together with government ministers run the country.

There is big influence by Irish trade unions on government policy.

Cork

I was thinking about this overnight & I tought about my local Community Council. They campaigned for 20 years for the council to build a car park. The amount of opposition they had to endure was crazy.

Now they are building some sheltered homes & a room for childcare. These local people have no political aspirations and are gaining nothing from this activity.

There is however much credit due to them. They are probably doing more than Town & County Councillers.

Sorry, my point being you don't have to be in politics to make a differance and there is a lot of good volentary effort out there.

Lennoxschips

Wim Duisenburg (head of the Euro central bank) held a public speech here in Ireland in 2000, warning that if Ireland did not take measures to tackle inflation that it could spin out of control. McCreevey dismissed it as nonsense however, saying everything was under control.

Three record years of inflation later...

Victor

Originally posted by Cork
I was thinking about this overnight & I tought about my local Community Council. They campaigned for 20 years for the council to build a car park. The amount of opposition they had to endure was crazy. Now they are building some sheltered homes & a room for childcare. These local people have no political aspirations and are gaining nothing from this activity. There is however much credit due to them. They are probably doing more than Town & County Councillers. Sorry, my point being you don't have to be in politics to make a differance and there is a lot of good volentary effort out there.

Do I have this right? Locals wanted car park (for what? park? pub?) Council built house on car park site. The locals were ignored by the council, but are still making a difference?

CCCP^

Originally posted by Sparks
CCCP,
A solution? Now this I have to hear...

Stop voting for Fianna Fail?

Sparks

Never started CCCP, but as my father is wont to say, "There's an awful lot of farmers out there"...

CCCP^

Just like my father said...."There's an awful lot of inbreding out there".

Cork

Originally posted by Victor
Do I have this right? Locals wanted car park (for what? park? pub?) Council built house on car park site. The locals were ignored by the council, but are still making a difference?

Sorry, they got the car park built. They are now building sheltered homes for the elderly.

These people are not political. Yet they are making a differance. They are noy gaing anything from their involvement.

They don't even get one iota of praise for the work they are doing.

But, aganist all odds - they are making a differance.

Politicians need to engage and get out of their clinics and work more on the ground.

CCCP^

Originally posted by Cork

Politicians need to engage and get out of their clinics and work more on the ground.

Politicians need to be resigned to the Thrash bin. We, the people, should concentrate the machinery of this state in our hands, for our own well being, not create a genre of well meaning men and women who eventually screw us over with their pandering politics, sly moves behind our backs, sensational clap trap. This is radical, but it has to be. Any mere reform of what we have WONT work.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Sparks
CCCP,
A solution? Now this I have to hear...

How about run for office yourself?

CCCP^

Vote CCCP^ For El_Presidente!

Sparks

How about run for office yourself?

We had this solution before. The problems associated with it have not changed:

The anwser is not tough. The anwser if you can't find someone who agrees with your views, is that you yourself run for office and represent your views.

Nope, that's not an answer for me. See, here's the thing. I enjoy my job. I worked hard for nearly twenty years to get to where I am. My family made a lot of sacrifices to give me the chance to get to where I am. And I'm not unique - most people under 30 can say similar things. And since there's another alternative option that gives me a vote without giving up my life (not just my job, but my personal privacy, my professional career, in short, my life) to politics. And even if I do run for political office, if elected I am bound to represent the views of other people even if they conflict with mine, that's why it's called representative democracy.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Sparks
Nope, that's not an answer for me. See, here's the thing. I enjoy my job. I worked hard for nearly twenty years to get to where I am. My family made a lot of sacrifices to give me the chance to get to where I am.

Are you including the time you spent in secondary school?

And even if I do run for political office, if elected I am bound to represent the views of other people even if they conflict with mine, that's why it's called representative democracy.

No, you don't. It may be in your interest to do so, but it is not a requirement.

Basically, if you're complaining about not having a decent choice of candidates while at the same time saying that you would not be willing to do the job, then that's just whinging.

Sparks

Are you including the time you spent in secondary school?

Why not? I worked my ass off, endured a lot and earned my place in college. And was working on college level work before the inter cert, took on activities outside school that were aimed at college stuff, and pretty much gave up the whole social side of things to get into college.

No, you don't. It may be in your interest to do so, but it is not a requirement.

Well, if you're willing to lie to those you're encouraging to vote for you...

Basically, if you're complaining about not having a decent choice of candidates while at the same time saying that you would not be willing to do the job, then that's just whinging.

Incorrect. I was complaining at not having the right to force a binding referendum on a topical issue by presenting a petition with a set (5% say) of the population signed to it. so I was presenting a solution. And thus not whinging.