Is IOL Broadband actually available?

Hobbes

I put in request for it a few weeks ago on thier online form. Never heard from them.

Thinking there may be something wrong with the form I filled it out again.

Two weeks later I still hadn't heard anything. So I ring them. I'm now told that IOL Broadband won't be rolled out for a few days and I'll get more details in a day or so?? The person wouldn't even take my details, only my name.

eth0_

It's not available till June, I heard.

spongebob

Nobody will be switched on until early June. Eircom already have a large backlog of wholesale connection .

IOL are fine tuning their product (again) . They originally differentiated themselves from Eircom with their generous 1Gb a month extra allowance. As Netsource have wrecked this strategy, IOL are twiddling around again with their package. They are also being forced to consider self install and self provisioning of modems.

Their staff will not confirm or deny the 5Gb Cap that ESAT themselves announced in March. That is because ESAT will either keep the cap and drop the price OR keep the price and increase the Cap.

The rumour from the bunker is that they are considering reselling

512/128 10GB €49.99 a month 48:1 contention (including VAT)

They had originally announced they would be reselling

512/128 5GB €49.49 a month 48:1 contention (including VAT)

ESAT's original DSL Residential product was

256/128 4GB €60 a month and only 1:1 contention owing to low takeup.

As we found out during the past 6 months, it was really not a product at all . ESAT couldn't or wouldn't supply it to anyone who didn't hound them daily for months about it. ESAT only launched it to spoil the Eircom RADSL product announcement. Not only did the spoiler not work, ESAT are being badly cannibalised by Netsource who have an Uncapped product at around a third of what ESAT would charge for Uncapped. Despite being the cheapest DSL product 'available' in Ireland for around 3 months ESAT only installed it for around 30 customers.

(Thanks for correction Sceptic, checked me PM's again)

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Muck

512/128 5GB €54 a month 48:1 contention (including VAT)

/B]

Current price is €49.49. Download limit is 5 gigs according to the website. Are you suggesting that they may raise the prices?

patrickmooney

Well I rang them and am getting the paper application form tomorrow. They sent it out to me last night. I was informed there was a three week set up period (I suppose this includes time to launch etc?!?!)

MDR

Esat,

Are they that scared of Netsource ? Given that Netsource will only talk to you if you are a business, although in fairness, I will answer my own question by saying that Esat, is most internested in the business customers.

They will probabily do something quite along the lines of introduce an uncapped product for slightily more expense than netsource (a couple of € dearer), selling cheaper phonecalls etc and value added muck with the product, to make it more attractive.

They will retain their starter product as is, and increase the cap to 10 or 12 gig. This won't cost them big money and should staive Eircom and Netsource off nicely ....

Shamo

Originally posted by patrickmooney
Well I rang them and am getting the paper application form tomorrow. They sent it out to me last night. I was informed there was a three week set up period (I suppose this includes time to launch etc?!?!)

I just rang up and got the forms sent out aswell (i'm based in wexford), she didn't mention a setup period or anything though.

50Cent

i love competition...:D

Paulw

I was told end May or early June for installation.

bizmark

so whats happening so?

will they still be launching when they said they will ........i called them a week ago and they took my details so i asume that the forms will be on their way to me 2

seems weird :rolleyes:

well i guess a extra 2 weeks wait for 5 gig more cap is alright
does anyone have any rock hard prove of what is happening ?

shinzon

I have a sneaky suspicion that they wont give me this new DSL product either, I passed there line tests for there 60 euro a month DSL product, hope that doesnt mean i cant get this new product if and when it comes out

SHIN

it seems that if you pass for the dearer BB products then you cant get the cheaper ones due to god knows what.

Synkronite

As long as they dont drag their feet like t hey did with their residential 256/128 package, making difficult for *everyone* to get it........

Esat despite being given the opportunity to be hailed as the one to undercut Eircom and take away competition, does no better than taking advantage of Eircom's monopoly to keep similarily high prices...

It's one company that has been losing respect fast ever since the No Limits incident (Even then only those who hounded them to stay on were let to stay on..)

Da Man

Why waste your time with those clowns? Isn't the Netsource offering cheaper? Until I started dealing with Esat in its various forms, I thought Eircom was bad. Eircom is a shining light in comparison to Esat.

eth0_

Originally posted by Da Man
Why waste your time with those clowns? Isn't the Netsource offering cheaper? Until I started dealing with Esat in its various forms, I thought Eircom was bad. Eircom is a shining light in comparison to Esat.

Patrickmooney - I was also told 3-4 weeks for install, as the product is still being tested and can't be rolled out yet.
Anyway, i'd just like to put this to ye all, muck i'd be especially interested in your opinion. It seems like everyone is flooding netsource with applications. Yes, they have no cap. BUT! Considering they have 48:1 contention, am I the only one who forsees this getting very oversubscribed and thus very slow at peak times? Would be interesting to see how many applications the big three have received so far for RADSL, eh?

bizmark

i agree i think netsourse could be bad for gamers

BendiBus

Originally posted by eth0_
It seems like everyone is flooding netsource with applications.

Based on posts to this board? I would imagine you KNOW most of the people applying for a domestic service from them. Outside this board, most people won't even have heard of them.

That's my guess.

MadsL

i agree i think netsourse could be bad for gamers

...based on what exactly bizmark??? sheesh...


eth0 - who doesn't have 48:1 at that price point?...Esat can only offer lower contention (24:1) at the 90 euro price point.

eth0_

Originally posted by MadsL

eth0 - who doesn't have 48:1 at that price point?...Esat can only offer lower contention (24:1) at the 90 euro price point.

Uh...I never said netsource were the only ones, read what I said again, madsl. About the no cap and the extra subscribers and the resultant slowing and the grinding of teeth and and...

MadsL

Oh I'm sorry, eth0_ it all makes more sense now...Netsource are crap because they offer a better product and customer service, ie uncapped broadband at a reasonable price - I thought that was what we were all looking for all these years...

...assuming that Netsource care about providing a decent service, of which there is every sign so far, what evidence do you have to say that this product will be inferior once eircom get their finger out and install the damn thing??

..btw I'm still waiting for ESAT to even offer a product...

and eircom...well, say no more...

Any vested interest there eth0_ ???

spongebob

Originally posted by eth0_
It seems like everyone is flooding netsource with applications. Yes, they have no cap. BUT! Considering they have 48:1 contention, am I the only one who forsees this getting very oversubscribed and thus very slow at peak times? Would be interesting to see how many applications the big three have received so far for RADSL, eh?

Testing .....humm!

I agree with your math Eth0

If there are 48 users sharing 512kBit , then they can all download 3.33Gb in a month MAXIMUM, assuming that they can organise going on line in sequence for around 15 hours and then stopping for the rest of the month.

15 hours is the natural limit bacause

1. There are 30 days in a month
2. There are 48 users on the DSLAM

30/48 - .625
15/24 = .625

You may also be sure that Eircom will not lower the contention to a more normal (internationally) 24:1

Eircom seem to have left it up to the wholesale customer (Netsource or Esat) to control the ratios for their own customers.

M

shinzon

Thank you for your enquiry regarding our new Ireland On-Line
Broadband service which launches this month offering FASTER
Internet Access at an AFFORDABLE flat rate fee!

I'd like to bring you up-to-date with a number of developments.

First of all we will start to process orders for IOL Broadband
before the end of May.


Another piece of news you may find interesting is that we
have now added a Self Install Broadband option at an
unbelievable price of €90! This compliments the Engineer
Install option priced at €190.


Remember there is no charge for the modem (worth €145)
with either of these options, which are considerably cheaper
than the eircom offerings, plus the monthly rental is almost €5 less!




Option IOL Broadband eircom i-stream
SELF INSTALL € 90* € 244.20**
ENGINEER INSTALL € 190* € 344.85**
* No charge for the modem for the duration of your contract.
(Modem remains the property of Esat BT).
** Based on eircom installation price plus the cost of an eircom modem



Help us get you up and running by
selecting which installation option you wish to take


We will be in contact with you again before the end of the month and look forward to confirming your order for IOL Broadband. We appreciate your interest in the product and your patience in waiting for the best.


Shin

patrickmooney

Just received an email from the IOL Broadband team confirming they will start processing orders this month. It also suppies a link to confirm which option you want, either self install or engineer etc. Rather funny I think, but the email closes with
"We appreciate your
interest in the product and your patience in waiting for the best"

shinzon

i hope that e-mail means i can get bb with someone, but i bet anything come the end of the month theyll ring up test my line and then tell me to f off

hope not as ive already passed there residential 60 euro product and the 90 euro business package

self install is the only reason i wasnt going with them, because they didnt have one, but now they do i might go with them

shin

pete

Originally posted by shinzon
i hope that e-mail means i can get bb with someone, but i bet anything come the end of the month theyll ring up test my line and then tell me to f off

All they've confirmed so far is that it's "available in your area" - i'm in exactly the same boat. They're operating out of the same telephone exchange as Eircom / Netsource - neither of which are able to provide me with DSL as i'm too far from the exchange. I can't imagine esat will miraculously be able to either.

edit: I'd love to know what the hell ESAT are up to - i clicked to "confirm" that i was interested in self-install & get this:

Thank you for choosing the
Self Install Install Modem Option.

You already know Broadband is available in
your area, however you may not
have checked if your phone line is suitable.

To check and see if your line is suitable please enter your eircom account number here.

So i enter my account number, thinking i'll be getting the usual "Your twine is crap. Please go away" message, but instead:

Thank you for choosing the
Self Install Install Modem Option.

We will be in contact with you again before the end of the month and look forward to confirming your order for IOL Broadband.

Is that a yes? A maybe? A possibly?

Why do i insist on torturing myself like this???

Hobbes

FFS this is a joke. Is it even legal?

I got the same spam mail which basically means I won't even get my order looked at until the end of the month, and even then it will take a while before installation. Add that to the time left waiting when registering.

Also it was only after some investigation on the site that it's mentioned in the FAQ that the service doesn't start until mid-may. No mention of that when I was looking at the "Register now" page.

I think you should actually have a service available before trying to sell it. >:/

spongebob

Originally posted by Hobbes

I think you should actually have a service available before trying to sell it. >:/

Comreg have no policy on Vapour Peddling but if they did .....

shinzon

---

Thank you for choosing the
Self Install Install Modem Option.

You already know Broadband is available in
your area, however you may not
have checked if your phone line is suitable.

To check and see if your line is suitable please enter your eircom account number here.

---

the above didnt happen to me, i jusy clicked on the self install option and got well be in contact with you shortly, no eircom account number was asked for.

am i right in thinking though that in some exchanges esat have separate dslams to eircom, I kinda got that impression here when i was talking to esat about the 60 euro offering awhile back

Shin

eth0_

Originally posted by MadsL

...assuming that Netsource care about providing a decent service, of which there is every sign so far, what evidence do you have to say that this product will be inferior once eircom get their finger out and install the damn thing??

Madsl. Please read again what I said. I was hypothesizing. I did not say it was fact that netsource will be crap, I had the thought and I asked for opinions. Read also what muck thinks of my question.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by shinzon
am i right in thinking though that in some exchanges esat have separate dslams to eircom, I kinda got that impression here when i was talking to esat about the 60 euro offering awhile back

They have DSLAMs in about 40 exchanges, however they only offer business priced DSL out of these. Furthermore, they only operate standard DSL (not RADSL) so the proportion of lines that can avail of the service is likely to be even less than Eircom's RADSL.

spongebob

Originally posted by eth0_
Madsl. Please read again what I said. I was hypothesizing. I did not say it was fact that netsource will be crap, I had the thought and I asked for opinions. Read also what muck thinks of my question.

I did think you were asking for a hypothesis of how RADSL could work out over the next 6 months Eth0_ , my modelling is a bit simplistic but does point out that Eircom cannot guarantee what they are selling (data wise) and not even to their own customers who have the lowest CAPs . I feel that anything under 24:1 is dishonest .

If 48 users are sharing 512k at A GIVEN MOMENT then they have 10.66k each which is only ONE FIFTH the speed of a Top Class Analogue Modem Connection. Broadband me hind leg.

The Eirecom wholesale offer seems to indicate that the contention rates are set by the wholesale customers. This is discussed fiurther on, see Flavourflavs comments.

M

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Muck
If 48 users are sharing 512k at A GIVEN MOMENT then they have 10.66k each which is only ONE FIFTH the speed of a Top Class Analogue Modem Connection. Broadband me hind leg.

This is the big issue at the moment. There have been people on here talking about how expensive bandwidth is (however not providing figures), but the fact is that even if bandwdith to Eircom's handover point was free, the ISP has no option to feed more bandwidth into the system. The 48:1 contention ratio is fixed. If, for example, Netsource, found that they were attracting heavy users and speeds were dropping to below dial up, they would have no option to decrease the contention ratio (as setting on the DSLAM) as this is controlled by Eircom.

By fixing the ratio, Eircom are preventing a competitive bandwidth market from emerging.

Ronin

Those using netsource for its no cap will most likely be all those who want to leave it on 24/7 downloading "sutff". This will mean that you'll have everyone competing for their allocation at the same time, which will mean the service will seem crap. Please note I'm not saying its a crap service, plus it hasn't even been rolled out yet. Just that because those using it will most likely be using up all the bandwidth available to them 90% of the time that there'll be sfa bandwidth for the average user to use at any given time.

This is the main reason that caps are put in place. To give everyone a fair chance at using it. The average user, not the average boards users mind, but the average user will use boardband for say surfing the web, not very bandwidth intensive and checking their mail, again not very bandwidth intensive. What happens is you end up with 5% of users using 95% of the bandwidth. But if all those 5% are in turn 95% of netsources users u end up with all the available bandwidth being used up.

These products are all designed for home users who aren't very bandwidth intensive, or at least shouldn't be since most ppl have no idea where to download / even know what "stuff" is..

Boardband for the masses is totally different to boardband for the people who want to download 24/7.

Surfing the web, downloading mail and playing games aren't likely to use up too much bandwidth a month, I've never done the maths so i'm not 100% sure on its exact amount. Downloading "stuff" is.

by Stuff i'm refering to what was also know as "linux iso's" at various lan events.

The only way anyone will know which of the radsl products is any good is to wait for the testing to be over an the prodcuts are rolled out and people who are actually using the services comment. And even then it'll take a while before the full impact is know. You might be doing great and then some downloader of "stuff" comes along an starts eating up bandwidth, this is more likely to happen on netsource then anyone else though, due to no caps.

Ronin

SkepticOne,

Eircom sell a product. If your resale of this product doesn't fit the model that the product is designed for , is it eircom's fault or yours?

Ro

MadsL

ahh FFS!!!!!

Uncapped affordable access is what we have all been waiting for!

No caps seem to frighten you all into thinking that you will have you + 47 warez phreaks on the same DSLAM. If line speeds start dropping as a result of *use (not misuse - we have had this discussion to death) then they will have to feed more bandwidth into the product. Don't forget that resellers have the option to connect to the enduser over IP - connection to the punter via the regional ADSL access point .

How about campaigning to eircom and esat that these caps are unfair and not flat rate as advertised* and should be done away with or at the very least increased to workable limits. I'm shocked to see some of you supporting these telcos attempts to *charge at a minimum of 3c PER MB for you for going over some made-up number...1GB extra a month = 30 euro!!! I'm more concerned about that than contention.


*surf as long as you like for a fixed monthly rate - me hole!!!

SkepticOne

Originally posted by MadsL
ahh FFS!!!!!

Uncapped affordable access is what we have all been waiting for!

No caps seem to frighten you all into thinking that you will have you + 47 warez phreaks on the same DSLAM. If line speeds start dropping as a result of *use (not misuse - we have had this discussion to death) then they will have to feed more bandwidth into the product.

Yes, but this is impossible under Eircom's current wholesale product. You can only feed in 512k/sec max for every 48 users. This is what I was trying to explain above.

eth0_

Madsl would you ever calm down.
Personally, i'm going to wait and see what the netsource service is like for other people and then decide whether to go with them or esat. Listen to Ronin and Muck, they know what they're talking about.

quaalude

Originally posted by Ronin

These products are all designed for home users who aren't very bandwidth intensive...

Netsource say their product is a Business Broadband Solution, though.

flav0rflav

Ah crap, now I'm gonna have to do some work, as the discussion is eventually getting interesting.

So where is the contention point, with ratio 48:1?
It's assumed to be at the back of the DSLAM. That'll be a problem. But it's an ATM link and the bandwidth can be easily increased. Nobody said it would be. Nobody even says it has to be. A cap means an upper limit, not a lower limit. You are guaranteed nothing except 24/7 access and .. well they hardly even garantee what trained speed the modem will reach, never mind the bandwidth to the DSLAM, or further.


A bad situation I can see developing, is that in the initial phases of this new age of broadband, due to price and early adopter scenario, ALL users will be heavy users. This will impact the service badly and what then? Well if the price keeps moving down and the service keeps running, eventually the regular internet user, as mentioned by somone, will become the average, and the statistics that contention ratios are based on will come true.

I'm off to check the bitstream whole sale service details as provided by eircom, and documented at Comreg, to look at the contention ratios and back haul situation.

In the mean time, prepare yourselves for a bumpy broadband start.

ps. loved the maths from Muck showing combination of 512k and 48 users. I had assumed that 512k was sufficient that even 48:1 would not bump into 5-6 GB cap. Looks like Netsource know how to work the figures, at least for contention ratios. 2 seperate DSLAMs, I doubt it. Seperate backhaul ATMC VCs probably.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by flav0rflav
So where is the contention point, with ratio 48:1?
It's assumed to be at the back of the DSLAM. That'll be a problem. But it's an ATM link and the bandwidth can be easily increased. Nobody said it would be. Nobody even says it has to be. A cap means an upper limit, not a lower limit. You are guaranteed nothing except 24/7 access and .. well they hardly even garantee what trained speed the modem will reach, never mind the bandwidth to the DSLAM, or further.

The contention point is at the DSLAM, afaik. Eircom also provide transport back to a number of handover points around the country, each serving a given set of exchanges. This transport is tied into the contention ratio. If Eircom were to increase the contention ratio on the DSLAM, the bottleneck would simply shift up to the link between the handover points and the exchanges. The ISP or telco cannot provide its own connection directly to the exchange, it must be done to the handover point.

A 24:1 contention ratio should not cost the ISP 40% more than a 48:1 ratio. Much of the cost is the same for both.

Ronin has said:

Eircom sell a product. If your resale of this product doesn't fit the model that the product is designed for , is it eircom's fault or yours?

Well this is fine, if you accept Eircom's wholesale product. Once again, though, the consumer suffers because Eircom get to decide for the whole market what can and can't be done by ISPs.

shinzon

Originally posted by SkepticOne
They have DSLAMs in about 40 exchanges, however they only offer business priced DSL out of these. Furthermore, they only operate standard DSL (not RADSL) so the proportion of lines that can avail of the service is likely to be even less than Eircom's RADSL.

So there just going to be using eircoms dslams to deliver iol broadband, ah well im ****ed so, thats all 3 BB companies that have ****ed me over, shame they dont offer the residential package through there own dslams, tycor and central waterford are esats own exchanges in waterford

Oh well theres always hi-speed

SHIN

MadsL

The ISP or telco cannot provide its own connection directly to the exchange, it must be done to the handover point.

So therefore, and this sounds about right looking at this doc outlining the wholesale product, there is nothing that means eircom will HAVE to provide DSLAMs for each reseller, in fact they are unlikely to do so which means there will be a mix of eircom, Esat and Netsource (and maybe Joe Bloggs.com) on any given 48:1 contended DSLAM.

All of which is to underline the two points I have been making on the boards recently...

1. It's all eircom resold.
2. Download Caps are NOT your friend.

Of course now someone will moan 'why should my bandwidth be shared with Netsource/esat/eircom' etc etc...

If I seem enervated eth0_, it's because the goal of *unmetered internet access seems to be being diluted by all this d/l 24/7 warez penguins talk. And if I'm not enraged my sig looks cr*p

SkepticOne

Originally posted by MadsL

2. Download Caps are NOT your friend.

If what Muck is saying is correct, i.e., that Esat and Netsource both share the same contention pool then there is no point in going for Esat's capped service since you will be slowed down by Netsource's users downloading 'linux isos'.

If Eircom are not in the same pool, then Esat could argue that the above arrangement is discrimintory since Eircom's retail services are supposed to be operated on the same basis as that which they supply to other operators.

It could also be that all three operators are sharing the same pool. We will find out pretty soon as reports on the speeds of the various operators start coming in.

spongebob

Originally posted by SkepticOne
If what Muck is saying is correct, i.e., that Esat and Netsource both share the same contention pool then there is no point in going for Esat's capped service since you will be slowed down by Netsource's users downloading 'linux isos'.

If Eircom are not in the same pool, then Esat could argue that the above arrangement is discrimintory since Eircom's retail services are supposed to be operated on the same basis as that which they supply to other operators.

It could also be that all three operators are sharing the same pool. We will find out pretty soon as reports on the speeds of the various operators start coming in.

I thought that Esat and Netsource will share the same contention pool. Flavourflav dug up the latest whlesale doc which indicates otherwise, see post below.

Sceptic has suggested a test for later this month which could conclusively prove whether Eircom is discriminating against wholesale customers and contrary to the product description it provided to Comreg.

M

flav0rflav

This document has the backhaul network details, which determines where the contention points are.

http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/Bitconnser.pdf

SkepticOne

Originally posted by flav0rflav
This document has the backhaul network details, which determines where the contention points are.

http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/Bitconnser.pdf

I got the impression that the bitstream connection service was simply to provide connections from Eircoms handover points back to an ISP' POP where they don't want to provide these links themselves. AFAIK, the ISP does not have to use this, but can connect to what is refferred to as Eircom' DSL regional POPs without using the bitsream connection service. It does not say how the contention pools are shared out once they get down to the DSLAM level.

flav0rflav

My reading would be that the typical (ie.simplest) RADSL product is backhauled from all DSLAMs to one chosen POP, where it is squeezed into a 2M line to the ISP, with up to 192 subscribers per 2M line.

This simple view would suggest all Netsource users would contend with one another, all Esat users would contend with one another etc, from all around the country, but would not contend with other ISPs users.

There is no description of how eircom provisions the RADSL backhaul between POPs, I could guess that the "VP Transport (VT)" which is 1Meg at 24:1 may be used.

spongebob

That document has been modified (again) quite recently, Thanks flavourflav for the link.

Pages 4 and 5 seems to indicate that the contention (for a given ISP) will occur where Virtual Private Circuits are presented at up to 192 per 2Mb port. A 2Mb port can be per region or nationally I think ?

Thats 192 into 2Mb (actually 2048) corresponds to up to 48:1 per 512k on a per Wholesale Customer and then Per Region (or National) level.

The wholesale customer could logically set a different contention ratio themselves by asking for say 128 ports from various dslams in a given region (or nationwide) to be presented to a given 2Mb circuit exclusive to them thereafter ...... 2048/128 = 32:1 contention in my example.

Eircom sets an upper limit and not a lower one for the number of RADSL ports that they will PVC (regionally or nationally) to a single 2Mb link. Once you reach 192 you must get another 2Mb circuit and so on etc.

Thats my reading of it anyway, does anyone agree?

M

melachi

I just got a mail from IOL broadband today as a follow up to my enquiry:

"First of all we will start to process orders for IOL Broadband
before the end of May.


Another piece of news you may find interesting is that we
have now added a Self Install Broadband option at an
unbelievable price of €90! This compliments the Engineer
Install option priced at €190. "

And then there are two links to click for self install / engineer install where you're supposed to enter your eircom account number to see if the phone line is actually compatible.
They said "may" and they seem to be on course.

flav0rflav

Originally posted by Muck
The wholesale customer could logically set a different contention ratio themselves by asking for say 128 ports from various dslams in a given region (or nationwide) to be presented to a given 2Mb circuit exclusive to them thereafter ...... 2048/128 = 32:1 contention in my example.
M [/B]

Yes, I certainly believe there is scope for an ISP to limit the number of ports per 2M link, hence giving a better contention ratio. But as I think about it, the radsl backhaul could be the limiting factor. It's just not detailed in the doc. Do you think the ISPs asked eircom about that part of the network?

Of course the ISPs may also be going the full hog, getting 155 Meg ATM links, with loads of potential for service differentiation. Any chance the ISPs would give details on their backhaul structures? (ha ha)

SkepticOne

Originally posted by flav0rflav
Yes, I certainly believe there is scope for an ISP to limit the number of ports per 2M link, hence giving a better contention ratio. But as I think about it, the radsl backhaul could be the limiting factor. It's just not detailed in the doc. Do you think the ISPs asked eircom about that part of the network?

The "bitstream connection service" is the wrong doc, I think. Esat, for example, would most likely use their own infrastructue to connect to connect to Eircom's regional DSL POPs. Netsource would choose from whatever telcos have infrastructure and get the best deal for connecting to the regional POPs or go for Eircoms 'bistream connection service'. I don't know what arrangements either Esat or Netsource have taken, however the fact that the access seeker can connect directly to Eircom's POPs and not take up the 'bitstream connection service' means that conclusions cannot be drawn solely from this connection service.

The doc you want, I believe, is the bitstream service itself:

http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/adsl.pdf

although this does not give the required info either.

flav0rflav

Originally posted by SkepticOne
The doc you want, I believe, is the bitstream service itself:

http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/adsl.pdf

although this does not give the required info either.

Eh, I'll assume you're just thinking on the fly.