Advice on child maintenance and visitation

Shafted

It’s a classic situation with some interesting twists…

I’m a 30 something Dublin bloke who is currently on low income, and my 30 something girlfriend (ex) has gone off with another bloke taking with her our two sons aged 9 and 4. She and I were together in a turbulent (on/off) relationship for 11 years.

At first there was no issue about visitation or maintenance. But I’ve actually only seen the kids once since she left me 7 weeks ago, and we had agreed to sort out maintenance as we went along. There was supposed to be further discussion about maintenance when the dust settled and when I had a chance to get back to fulltime work etc…

This week the situation took a bad turn. She is refusing to let me see the kids at all and she’s saying it’s because I never properly supported them and still don’t. This is not true. I supported them quite well compared to many. It is however true that I never handed her a “wage” every week as is normal in most relationships, my excuse being that she has a severe drink problem and very bad spending habits. I was in fact trying to protect the families future by saving as much as possible for all the things that savings are normally used for, and at the same time I provided a good percentage of the costs of all of the normal home comforts and essentials. This was all done under the umbrella of welfare fraud – She on loan parents allowance and rent allowance, me working casually or fulltime using a different address, but living with her and the kids. I know this is a dreadful thing to do but believe me it was the only way we could get by most of the time.

So this is the situation now: She has disappeared to somewhere in [another county many miles from Dublin] with this guy and the kids. I don’t know where exactly. I have no direct phone number to contact her. I have her best girlfriends number. This girlfriend is the one who facilitated my ex meeting her new boyfriend. This girlfriend is my ex’s brothers ex! Confused yet? This girlfriend got a new bloke recently too! Guess what? Her bloke and my ex’s new bloke are best friends! Cosy isn’t it. It gets better… I have one other phone number to contact my ex – Her new boyfriends number (she txt’d me from it to tell me she and I were finished). This communications chain makes for really nice mature conversations and issue resolutions. NOT!

Now, I think it’s plain to see that I have been rather badly shafted here. I am not contesting that I must provide maintenance for my kids (I just can’t afford very much right now). I am not trying to take the kids away from her for good (though there MIGHT be reasons why I should do so). I am not trying to cause her trouble in her new relationship (he’s welcome to her. I pity him if she treats him anything like the way she treated me over the years). I just want to have access to my kids, and them to have access to me of course (they love me and I love them).

OK that’s enough detail I think, now I have some questions. Can anyone with experience please advise?

1. Who should I go to first? Solicitor, police, social workers (9 year old has had contact with these already because of behaviour/learning difficulties), is there a special body whose sole purpose is to help with family law issues?

2. Do the courts take into account the living arrangements of the past? In other words, would it come out in court that we were defrauding the welfare service? And if it did would we both be prosecuted for it?

3. Do the courts take into account the income of the maintenance provider? I heard that you can be ordered to pay up to €76 per child per week and something like €239 per week to your ex! I can’t cover anything like that at the moment.

4. What would happen to her if she refuses to take part in the legal process and still stops me seeing the kids even when legal orders have been issued?

5. How would someone like me get custody of the kids if it should turn out that she is an unfit parent? I only ask this because I do not know what living conditions are like for them now. But I do know that she is still drinking heavily and there’s a possibility that my 9 year-old is not attending school, and he might not until after the summer holidays. That would be very bad for him considering his special needs.

6. What legal costs can be expected to arise? Is there free legal representation for low-income persons in family law cases?

7. Based on the details of my story, what’s my next best step to take?

That’s all I can think of for now. Help!

Please, if you should happen to recognise any of the people in this story, do not mention any names.

Thanks.

Beruthiel

Unlike yours, my separation was amicable, however I needed to have it legal and at the time, like yourself, I was not making much money – under such circumstances you can avail of free legal aid, I went to the one in Merrion Square (it’s some time ago at this stage so can remember the exact address, but you should be able to find them in the phone book/on line)
I can never understand a parent not getting that the children are the most important part of a separation and that they need to grow up knowing both parents so that they have some sort of stability in their lives. Is your ex so unreasonable that she doesn’t get the fact that her children need to know who their father is? They will not thank her later in life.
You may not want to give her money right out, but it is your duty as a father to provide for them – when you get access again, ask what they need, you can buy them their shoes/clothes, school books etc yourself, but they need to be feed also, buy food for the week if needs be.

three things I would do straight away, see the social welfare officer that you have been in contact with already; and to know your rights, get the free legal aid going (as it's free, it can take some time)

Make another attempt to talk to your ex in a calm and reasonable manner

As for defrauding the welfare system, I, as a taxpayer don’t appreciate that and I have no clue how that comes out in court.

best of luck

Talliesin

There are two ways to deal with these situations:

1. As a couple who remain friends and can organise matters amicably.
2. Through a lawyer.

If you can't do the first, then you have to do the second. The lawyer will probably tell you its unwise to discuss it publicly (like here) until everything is settled.

Shafted

Hello Beruthiel,

Thanks for your reply, and confirming for me that I need to deal with this situation calmly (I actually had thoughts of having her arrested for absconding with the kids). Going to free legal aid sounds like the best first step.

I can never understand a parent not getting that the children are the most important part of a separation and that they need to grow up knowing both parents so that they have some sort of stability in their lives. Is your ex so unreasonable that she doesn’t get the fact that her children need to know who their father is? They will not thank her later in life.

She can be about as unreasonable as it is Earthly possible. But she can also be very reasonable at times. To be fair, she has had a VERY tough life with her own SERIOUSLY dysfunctional parents. She has suffered many abuses (she confided in me perhaps more than she should have). She had a nervous breakdown when she was 21, and was diagnosed as having some form of schizophrenia soon after that. My relationship with her (damn love for its inherent blindness!) was always straining under the weight of her "baggage".

I think the kids will hate her for a lot of things in later life, specially if she continues to take after her own mother, which I'm sorry to say she does. Now there's an unreasonable woman if ever there was one. All the mother-in-law jokes in the universe turned into horrible cackling nightmares and rolled into one seething pile of bilious flesh-eating crap. Sorry... She really is that bad. All her children hate her, but its one of those co-dependence type families. They live in each other’s ears, and make a lot of noise - 3 active alcoholics, 3 non-alcoholics, all mad as hatters, all prone to violent outbursts. My 9 year-old had to practically grow up there because of my ex's inability to live independently of them. The cause of his behaviour problems I believe.

I can't understand one parent trying to cut out the other either, unless there's serious abuse involved. But everyone can fall prey to a little madness now and then... Unfortunately my ex has always been mad, and I have always been in denial.

You may not want to give her money right out, but it is your duty as a father to provide for them – when you get access again, ask what they need, you can buy them their shoes/clothes, school books etc yourself, but they need to be feed also, buy food for the week if needs be.

Yes, I could be accused of being unreasonable myself for thinking that she would only drink the money I'd hand over for the kids. Then again I'd probably be right. I'm not trying to avoid my duty to provide for them, I never did. I just want to be sure they are being looked after.

Thanks for those 3 tips. Again, they were confirmation of my own ideas.

Hey, I'm a taxpayer too, and I didn't appreciate having to live that way either. Life is too expensive for too many people in this country. But lets not get into politics.

Thanks Beruthiel.

Shafted

Are you a lawyer Talliesin?

Talliesin

Hell no. If I was a lawyer I'd have just given the second option!

Seriously though, if there is a risk of things moving to the sort of situation where lawyers are involved then it's almost never a good idea to talk about it in a public forum until after the case is settled.

Beruthiel

But she can also be very reasonable at times.

if that is the case, then I would really try to talk to her as soon as possible and work something out. It’s not important how much your child sees you, only that is on a regular basis at a regular time and is spent with you giving them your total attention. I can’t stress that enough – If you can manage that, you kids will be grand. But bloody hell, that's some family of hers - your kids need to be taken out of that environment asap

Victor

Originally posted by Shafted
1. Who should I go to first? Solicitor, police, social workers (9 year old has had contact with these already because of behaviour/learning difficulties), is there a special body whose sole purpose is to help with family law issues?

If you know a solicitor, take initial sounding from them. Alternatively talk to http://www.flac.ie/ they have a help line at: (01) 874 5690 or you can write to Free Legal Advice Centres, 13 Lower Dorset Street, Dublin 1. I'm not sure if they can directly help you, but they can point you in the right direction.

If you know the local Gardaí, mention it to them, but don't necessarily make a complaint yet. Tell them the basic facts and that you have little means of contacting them and are slightly concerned for their welfare.

Talk to your local community welfare officer (local health board office), who may put you in contact with someone about child welfare.

Originally posted by Shafted
2. Do the courts take into account the living arrangements of the past? In other words, would it come out in court that we were defrauding the welfare service? And if it did would we both be prosecuted for it?

The family courts (usually completely separate from other courts) will primarily be looking out for the children's welfare. The courts are much more interested in that than referring you to the Dept of Social Welfare, but it may be a minor issue.

Originally posted by Shafted
3. Do the courts take into account the income of the maintenance provider? I heard that you can be ordered to pay up to €76 per child per week and something like €239 per week to your ex! I can’t cover anything like that at the moment.

Income will be taken into account, but can eat into any money you have.

Originally posted by Shafted
4. What would happen to her if she refuses to take part in the legal process and still stops me seeing the kids even when legal orders have been issued?

She must take part in any legal process. If she refuses to obey a court order, she could in theory lose rights to the children or be sanctioned legally (fines, prison, etc., but this is rare)

Originally posted by Shafted
5. How would someone like me get custody of the kids if it should turn out that she is an unfit parent? I only ask this because I do not know what living conditions are like for them now. But I do know that she is still drinking heavily and there’s a possibility that my 9 year-old is not attending school, and he might not until after the summer holidays. That would be very bad for him considering his special needs.

If you are a parent, who has been integral in bringing up the children and the other parent is unfit, you are the most likely person to receive custody.

Originally posted by Shafted
6. What legal costs can be expected to arise? Is there free legal representation for low-income persons in family law cases?

As with anything, legal costs can vary massively. However, most solicitors will at least give you your first consultation free.

Originally posted by Shafted
7. Based on the details of my story, what’s my next best step to take?

Talk to the above people. Keep written records of everything that happens. Write down what you can about what happened during the relationship, especially her “severe drink problem and very bad spending habits”.

Try to keep in contact. Write to your ex and children and get her friend to pass the letters on. If her friend refuses, write to her asking her to do it, send by registered post if necessary.

Be careful about what can be tracked back to here.

Make sure you take some time to look after yourself.

Some day tell us how it worked out.

daveg

Some sound and factual advice there from Victor and Beruthiel.
I have nothing to add except to wish you luck. I have a 4 year old and could only imagine how you must feel

McGinty

I would just add a couple of things, would it be possible for you to have the children and offer her visitation rights?

Whatever you decide, from my own experience try not to get personal or nasty with her and focus on the children and their needs. It is a difficult situation you are in and I wish you all the luck.

If your income is below €250, you are entitled to various benefits and free legal aid, but you will have to wait months.

banquo

1. DO NOT go to a solicitor: they know most guys in youyr situation are doomed and just bleed you of cash.

2. see this crowd www.parentalequality.ie

Typedef

One word : litigation.

If I were you I would be attempting to get custody as children frequently pick up their parent's bad habits and I would be lying awake at night for fear of my children becoming alocholics like their mother.

I'm quite serious about that too. Implying the mother is unfit to raise the children and lets face it, if the chick is a drunk (she is), is the single best way to get access (and preferably custody) of your children.

I suppose it comes down to what sort of father you want to be, hold up your hands and say "wouldn't it be great (if)" or get unequivocally involved.