Should I buy a big old barge?

mike65

My car, a Corsa is due its NCT next week, it should go through and I've been wondering about selling it with a nice fresh NCT and some road tax left. I reckon its worth about 3 grand as a private sale.

My perhaps crazy notion is to spend about €1500 on a freshly NCT-ed 2 litre executive type barge and spending whats left over on the extra insurance/running costs.

I've been checking the papers and there seem to be plenty of 1988-1992 cars from Alfa, Saab, Mercedes and BMW around.

Am I daft to seek old luxury or should I just be happy with what I've got and be glad of cheap running costs?

Mike.

Silvera

I've thought about doing something similar in the past - never actually did it though - yet.

Personally, I won't touch an old Alfa (too troublesome), old Saab - (so,so).

Between a Merc and a BM, I think I would go for the ......hmmm.... close call........probably the BM......then again there are some good examples of older Mercs out there.
I suppose a good example of either would be just fine.

It's also much easier to get parts for Mercedes or BMW's as there are several specialist parts suppliers around Ireland , e.g. OTTO, Ranelagh or German Car Parts, Nangor Rd, Dublin.

If you do decide to go ahead, get the best example you can afford - not necessarily the newest model.

Regards,
Silvera.

Captain Trips

You'd pay around 4-5 grand for say an 90 E200. Basically the MB are more bomb-proof then the BMWs - hence the use as taxis, they tend to just last and last if you take care of them.

Neil3030

I don't know if it would be such a good idea.

Do you need this car? Do you have to carry big loads or a family etc? Is it worth the extra cost in insurance, tax, fuel, components (remember, if it's a 10+ year old car, parts are not going to be plentifully available and will be quite expensive) and tyres?

That €1500 surplus might disappear rather snappily.

Mythago

To be honest... unless your in your mid thirties I couldn't really recommend the Merc, in fairness the older ones may be bomb proof... but its all old farts drivin 'em! Having previously owned older BMW's I can easily recommend them, the engines, especially the sixers are bullet proof and will go for ever! BUT be careful of 91-92 3 series' some of them have quality issues(rattly door panels etc.)!!

Turner

Just bought a 1990 316i BMW, Has 85000 miles on the clock and nct'd for a year. It is a rock solid car and is very reliable so far.

I cant understand why people go out and spend 10 grand on some brand new little soap box with a 1 litre engine when there are so many well built older cars out there going for next to nothing.
I have a mate who bought a 1990 bmw 520 a few weeks back for 800. All it needed was a new clutch.

Captain Trips

Originally posted by Chief---

I cant understand why people go out and spend 10 grand on some brand new little soap box with a 1 litre engine when there are so many well built older cars out there going for next to nothing.

I agree. And these days 10 grand won't get you very far at all. About 15 grand will sit you in a nice shiny new 106 or Clio. But why oh why? I suppose the newer cars have maybe more saftey features but TBH I would feel safer in a 10 year old Benz then a brand new Ka.

mike65

To be honest... unless your in your mid thirties I couldn't really recommend the Merc, in fairness the older ones may be bomb proof... but its all old farts drivin 'em!

I'm well into my 30s! and I agree about the "image" thing, I was wondering about going the whole hog if I went for a Merc and buy an estate with labrador fited

In truth I hav'nt even checked with my insurance ppl yet so I may find they take the piss and I stick with what I've got...I'm not rich.

I have a mate who bought a 1990 bmw 520 a few weeks back for 800. All it needed was a new clutch.

Thats the sort of thing I'm interested in but with NCT
and clutch. Worth remembering the 5 series was generally reckoned to be the best saloon car you could buy in the eary 90s.

Mike.

unkel

old 5 series E34 (88-96) was best car in its class until the very end + great bargains to be had, esp older ones

make sure however:

-you can afford insurance + tax + petrol
-car has new nct
-check car or have mechanic check it
-be prepared to spend a bit on maintenance
-520i manual is safest option, also most common model

bmw's are among the hardest driven cars around (esp 3 series) and they need to be looked after. if that's done properly (hard to check cause service history is usually a joke in this country) they last as long as any merc. if not and trouble might be ahead. mercs are too expensive 2nd hand in ireland imo - also stuffy image, though that wouldn't bother me that much tbo

BogoBot

I'd say go for it....if the insurance numbers stack up.

My first car was an Opel Berlina (anyone?!), 2 litre barge with a vinyl roof and really comfy seats. It was a '79 (I got it in 94-95).
Had a lot of fun in it and learnt a lot given it had no power steering, abs etc.

You could consider an opel omega......If you are looking for barge-ness then don't discount these. A 5 series is a better car in nearly every respect but the omega is cheap to buy so you could get a newer one. The 2 litre is really quick and the 3 litre is a howl. Avoid the diesels as they are several generations behind the curve.

Bogobot.

DivX

The diesel Omega 2.5 Td (non intercooler) is a BMW engine (M51) developing 115 bhp, also used in alot of the Rangerovers, not bad , nice 6 cylinder pur, and last forever once the oil is changed on schedule, great bang for ur buck...

Have a 325 TDS at moment , and have put up over 180k with few problems, except a few shock absorbers\bushings\ replace first day battery ... 43 mpg

5 series is probably more reliable, but appeals to the older age profile...

Insurance for me at 30 works out @ €711 TPFT, tax for 12 months approx. €780, depreciation very little.. running costs in all about the same as my old BM 316i

I'd say go for it, but don't buy the first one you come across, there are loads of them out there, as was mentioned below dont get hung up on the full service history, maybe the owner got the garage to change the oil changed every 3k miles, but never touched the suspension\brakes.

Victor

How about buying an actual barge and not havving to pay VRT / road tax? You could live really close to town! Although the insurance would probably be much worse.

JohnBoy

Definiteley get a big bus.

I'm only 23 and on my second car and it's a 405 diesel estate.

I lust after a 5 series (diesel of course)

The omega diesel estate is my planned next car (although I'd love to buy a sierra 4x4 estate and fit a new ford 2.0 TD to it)

Anyway I'm just weird, but I love big old cars.

ToxicPaddy

well if ur willing to go as far as about €15k there is a lovely 1994 BMW 520i for sale on cbg.ie

All the extras and its an auto too with only 60k miles..

Not half bad for someone who can afford the insurance.. id love to go have a look, but my insurance company would only laugh at me if I even attempted to enquire abut it :rolleyes:

mike65

Originally posted by DivX
The diesel Omega 2.5 Td (non intercooler) is a BMW engine (M51) developing 115 bhp, also used in alot of the Rangerovers, not bad , nice 6 cylinder pur, and last forever once the oil is changed on schedule, great bang for ur buck...

I'm sure Bogobot was thinking about the wretched
GM 2.3 which even when it got turbo'd drove no faster.

Insurance for me at 30 works out @ €711 TPFT, tax for 12 months approx. €780, depreciation very little.. running costs in all about the same as my old BM 316i

Thats a lot on Road tax which is why 2.0 litres is my max.
Your insurance is cheap bet mine costs more! No full
NCD at the moment (about 3 years in)

Mike.

DivX

I'm sure Bogobot was thinking about the wretched
GM 2.3 which even when it got turbo'd drove no faster.

Didn't think of that engine, was thinking of the later cars, is that the same 2.3d that was fitted to the Opel Frontera in the early days? gave the Frontera a bad rep.

Another car that maybe worth considering would be a Ford Granada Scorpio 2.0L, for less than €2.5K would get you a '95 car with electric everthing, would think parts would be cheap being a ford from that era, easy to work on also.

Saw this on the Buy&Sell - pity the engine is so big

Ford Scorpio 2.9 '90. Full spec, leather, a/c, all elec, c/c, auto, NCT 04/04, Price: €800 _

JohnBoy

oooh oooh, if you could find a scorpio 24v that'd be THE car to get

cosworth built the engine for em, in the old (granada) model it was sold as the scorpio cosworth, but in the later models (bug eyes) it was just the scorpio 2.9

That's one sweet as engine there, sooooo easy to get 250 horses from it.

mike65

I passed a parked Cossy Scorpio in Carlow today. Silver and ugly!

is that the same 2.3d that was fitted to the Opel Frontera in the early days? gave the Frontera a bad rep.

Yep thats the one, terible 4x4, built like a Lada,
almost anything else would be a better buy.

Mike.

mike65

My car, a Corsa is due its NCT next week, it should go through...

Ha! :mad: It failed. A new lower suspension ball-joint required. The barge will have to wait a little lomger then...:(

Mike.

ButcherOfNog

that shouldn't cost too much to sort, anyways, look at it the way i look at it:

high speed accident in corsa = most likely your funeral
same accident in a big car = few days in hospital

you choose, and forget about how good/carefull/slow driver you are, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time its the other ****wit that hasn't a clue that'll put you 6 foot under

mike65

Old post rising from grave....

I got the Corsa passed today after a false start which messed me up (bloody bank holidays!). For some reason I was sure it would fail again! So thats a weight off my mind.

I've spotted a 89 520i in Carrick - don't know prices or anything but I'll be going right past the garage on Tuesday so I'll call in and get the low-down. While a 93
Alfa 164 TS is in the same neck of the woods and thats got an 2 year NCT and they want less than €1200 which sounds very tempting even though it'll double my insurance...I suspect the BMW will be cheaper as its a 12v model with about 25 fewer horses...

Mike.

ButcherOfNog

stay away from old Alfas, as far away as possible !

Mythago

'lo Mike,

If you're considering the 5 series check out http://www.bmwe34.net alot of good info in there.

mike65

Thanks for the link, an exellent site bookmarked!

Mike.

DivX

Hi Mike a few more E34 sites to check out.


http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e34.html

Lists off common faults/repairs


BMW E34 Reviews

I always pay carsurvey a visit when i want to get the low down on what owners think of their cars...


Also checked out the Alfa 164 reviews on that site and the owners had alot of positive things to say about them...


Alfa Romeo 164 Reviews

BrianD3

Another useful site is

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/home/index.htm

Check out the "car-by-car breakdown" section - loads of useful info there. Also check out the "back room" which is a discussion forum.

You could also take a look at google's archive of uk.rec.cars.maintenance

BrianD3

mike65

Cheers guys I vivisit the above sites as I spent about 2 hours trawling for E34 sites. On the Alfa 164 I think its underrated.

Mike.

Mythago

Agree on the 164 front... There's too many of them still on the roads for them to be a loada crap!

Incidentally, if your thoughts move to a slightly smaller barge take a look at http://www.bmwe30.net also has stuff related to the e34.

unkel

Mike, in both cases its a matter of keeping your fingers crossed, particularly with the Alfa. For the money, the e34 520 sounds like a sweet deal. The e34 is a great car well ahead of its time and the engine is sound albeit a little slow.

mike65

I phoned to check the price and NCT of the Beemer, €1750 and "er yeah its got about 18 months or something like on the NCT" :rolleyes: Too expensive, but I'll go and see it anyway. I reckon I might have a deal that could temp the seller to drop the price a good few hundred....

Mike.

mike65

I saw the car today (white with Cork plate), 179,000 on the clock but not on the bodywork which looked straight and
no corroison. The NCT is good for 17 months, no tax, the timing belt was replaced 5,000 miles ago.

The price has crashed to €1000 as the head gasket needs renewing and that proberly means the head needs skimming. I know a man who does that and will have a rough idea of the cost tomorrow. No battery so could'nt play with the electrics or give it a spin, will do that on Friday if the cylinder head machining is affordable...Nice tyres and BMW alloys (the criss-cross/wire wheel effect ones) are proberly worth nearly a grand...

Mike.

DivX

Mike

Just as a reality check i looked up buyandsell.net

BMW 520i' '89. NCT 05/04, alpine white, s/r, onboard computer, CD player, BMW alloys, just serviced, new timing belt, 140k mls, Price: €1,200 Contact: 087-xxxxxxx.
Conn and Leinster, Web

You'd probably have the M20 (short six engine) in the early E34, whereas the later models (9/1992) had the M50.

The M50 had the vanos (variable valve timing).

The M20 engine develops 129 bhp @ 6000 rpm / 120 lb/ft @ 4000 rpm where as the M50 develops 150 bhp @ 6000 rpm / 140 @ 4700.

All this is stuff is leading somewhere

If you budgeted for skimming the head/labour etc., when you take the head off you could discover a crack in the head (M20 engines have been known for this) your budget is right out the window...

My advice is keep looking and if you can stretch to a '93 model you'll get more power and torque and around the same fuel economy, or offer him €600 and wave the guarantee...

E34 M5

M20 Engine

unkel

Originally posted by DivX
My advice is keep looking and if you can stretch to a '93 model you'll get more power and torque and around the same fuel economy, or offer him €600 and wave the guarantee...

Yeah, I think DivX is spot on. Big difference between 129 and 150 bhp on a car that's a ton and a half plus. Still same tax, insurance and petrol. Mine's a '94 530iA V8 - nuff said :-)

mike65

Guys! Guys! Money money money! I'm doing this on the cheap, 1500 top whack.

I've discounted buying that white 520i as its history vis-a-vis the blown gasket is too vague, I know of a 1989 320i with alloys and NCT going for a grand so will check that tomorrow.

Mike.

mike65

I looked over and drove the 320i today, its got a whacking 175,000 on the clock but felt as tight as something with about 40k under its wheels...engine, suspension, steering etc all felt good. The interior was in better shape rattle-wise than my 56,000 Corsa. The bodywork is as expected for the milage - some lights scratches, with
corrison around the ariel gromet thingy and some light rust on the
trailing edge of the rear wing on passanger side. No toys except electric mirrors, alloys. Like the econo-metre idea. It pulls nicly, not "hot" fast but strong. Just enough room for my lanky frame. NCT until 8-04, no tax sadly!. Its got no history but the engine has nothing more than honest grime on it (I was half expecting a stream clean horror).

I've a feeling I'm going to buy it

Mike.

Mythago

Go for it! My E30 had 160k on it when i flogged it and a 1.5 yrs later i hear its passed 200k!

BUT after a while you will be tempted to cover the econometer with a peice of insulation tape!

DivX

Same here i'd say go for it, my current car has over 183K mls and is only just run in...

mike65

AAAAAAAAAAAGGH! :mad:

The car was sold! I missed it due to an answer machine not being checked...oh well. I'm deffo in the mood for an E30 320i so I'll just have to keep my eyes peeled.

Mike.

unkel

How's the BMW hunting Mike?

mike65

V-E-R-Y Slowly I'm afraid, theres no end of 316 and 318 models but as Ireland was dirt poor back in the 80s, 320s are harder to find as they were expensive, so few were bought by private motorists while companies usually went for 5 series or Mercs.

I'm keeping my eyes peeled but may yet end up going for a Merc 190E
as they're are quite a few around.

Mike.

Silvera

You may well be better off buying a Merc, mike65.

I had a 320 a few years back and they are very hard on petrol.
I never saw a fuel gauge drop so fast !

Other than that it was a great car - lovely sound from those 6 cyl engines !!!

Silvera.

mike65

Originally posted by Silvera
You may well be better off buying a Merc, mike65.

I had a 320 a few years back and they are very hard on petrol.
I never saw a fuel gauge drop so fast !

Other than that it was a great car - lovely sound from those 6 cyl engines !!!

Silvera.

Ah but its the engines purr thats the whole point to buying a 320!

Mike

unkel

Originally posted by mike65
Ah but its the engines purr thats the whole point to buying a 320!
Mike

Indeed Mike! Personally I wouldn't go for a 190, they have aged badly imo. Any merc secondhand in Ireland is very expensive compared to equivalent BMW. Why don't you try again going for a 520i - plenty of those around (last model - E34) and has same engine (obviously) as 320i.

Keep us posted

MojoMaker

Originally posted by ToxicPaddy
well if ur willing to go as far as about €15k there is a lovely 1994 BMW 520i for sale on cbg.ie

All the extras and its an auto too with only 60k miles..

Is this a joke? Top value on that car would be €4-5k for a good example.

MojoMaker

Originally posted by mike65
AAAAAAAAAAAGGH! :mad:

The car was sold! I missed it due to an answer machine not being checked...oh well. I'm deffo in the mood for an E30 320i so I'll just have to keep my eyes peeled.

Mike.

I thought you wanted a barge dude. Actually you really wanted a beemer, any beemer, eh? I know what that's like...

E30 will never be called a barge. Did you not find any decent examples of early-90's 5-series yet? Loads of them around.