Fisichella was robbed!

Barry Aldwell

I'm just after watching the race on UTV, and it was one of the best races I've seen in a while. The one problem I had was that Fisichella was robbed, even though the regulatons said that he should have won it. It would have been a big boost for Jordan, especially considering the trouble they're having financially at the moment.

acid

wrong, the race order is decided on the last lap completed before the red flag. Fisichella passed Raikkonnen just after they crossed the line so Raikkonnen was the rightful winner. If one more lap had been completed before the race was stopped the Fisi would have won.

Disappointing, but still great to see Jordan get a podium finish.

Barry Aldwell

He crossed the line before the red flag went up. The race order at the time he crossed the lin should have been the final order.

mike65

Barry he passed after the start/finnish line so the new flying Finn won it, second place is not to be sneezed
at either. Crazy race though, many drivers can be thankful there're still upright and breathing. The FIA
will have to enforce engineering changes at turn 3.

Mike

aidan_dunne

Yeah, I was gutted to see that Fisi didn't get the win but rules are rules I guess. That first win continues to elude a driver who I consider to be one of the quickest in F1. I still think his day will come, though.

mike65, you said that you think the FIA will have to enforce engineering changes at Turn 3. Well, I think that as a matter of priority the FIA will have to make some serious changes to the rules regarding the wet tyres as well. It was just plan crazy and completely dangerous to see drivers having to struggle to try and keep their cars on the road today in conditions like that on intermediate tyres. Okay, you can say it was the tyre manufacturer's fault for electing to bring inters instead of full wets to a track where traditionally there is heavy rain but I think this whole "only one wet tyre to be elected per weekend" rule is wrong and dangerous and that was proved today. It was brought in to bring costs down but look at how many millions of dollars worth of F1 cars were smashed to bits today because of this kind of thing. Totally irresponsible, wrong and downright dangerous in my opinion. :mad:

K!LL!@N

I thought it was a great race.
When i saw the red flag appear i thought fisi had won.
Then the rule was mentioned.
Then i saw fisi pull into parc ferme with his engine on fire.
So although it was disappointing that he didn't get 1st place, jordon should be thankful that the race was stopped when it was or they'd have gotten nothing.
But i gotta say, it was one of the most exciting races for a long time.
The rules have been a big improvement.
Once again i actually find myself looking forward to qualifying and the races.

Killian

chernobyl

Giancarlo was certainly not robbed, he was unlucky.
If the FIA had been on top form they would have realised on Friday that full wets were needed and allowed Bridgestone & Michelin to fly them in but the FIA is "cóck up" spelt backward or something....

Drainage has always been a huge proglem in Brazil and apparently it was not the weather that created the huge problems in T3 but some draining system for the corpos tents.

Schumacher was very lucky he didnt hit that digger, man he would have been ****ed.

Alonso's accident was frightening and highlighted another problem in Brazil (which was shown before)..there are no warning flags on the climb out of the last turn.

Dr. Dre

Fantastic stuff, best race in a while (new rules playing no part in it today). Turn 3 catching all those drivers out, brilliant, even the great schuey was caught. Huge condolences for Barichello, unbelievable jinx around there for him, not a great swan song for the 2002 car.

DCULLY666

Delighted the Arrogant German got zero points.
Felt sorry for fizzi but rules r rules,anyways Kimi did not have to stop so would have strolled the race.
Boy mclaren look good and its not yet the new car.
Kimi is just pure class and is only 23 i think.

mike65

One thing should be mentioned about fishi, namely
would he have to stop for fuel as he had been going since lap 7? I know the slow safety car laps help save fuel but I doubt he was carrying enough to reach the end myself...

Who was driving the Jag that was little more than a cockpit by the time it came to a halt, Pizzonia?
Anyway he was damn lucky.

The tyre rule is crazy but then its Interlagos, it usually rains - alot. They should have selected rain tyres.

Mike.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Bah!! rules are rules i suppose

Bloody great race though :P

Always nice to see a few crashes, and its not often you see a ferarri not finishing. Poor oul`Ralph Firman was unlucky with his suspension, if it hadn't happened he might have gotten a points place :O

Fisi proved once again what a great driver he is, not only is he quick, but he is very reliable. Imo the 3rd best driver on the circuit.

Woden

Weber was in the jaguar or what was left of it, yeah a great race pity it was stopped, another great result for maclaren and you have seen my jump for joy when schumy went out, jordan it was a good result and glad they got second but i do consider them somewhat lucky if his car was about to blow but then again it might have blown just cause he stopped we will never know. With regards to the tyres ross brawn kinda said it was the michelin teams fault about the one wet tyre rule as they pushed it because michelin's full wets aren't great i think (perhaps there inter's also but they seemed fine so i think it is just the full wets) and that this was an advantage for them to do this.

Pigman II

Fisichella wasn't robbed, he came second according to the rules of the race.

Besides, like m65 said, you could equally have argued that Raikkonen still would have won had the last 17 laps been played because the Jordan driver was still due a pit-stop where as the McLaren driver was not.

jonno

He wasn't robbed is correct.

Latest is Alonso is okay but his leg is badly bruised. He should make it back for Imola.

You have to feel for Barrichello. He can't ever finish his home race. Usually he puts up a great show but I don't know why his fate is stopping him from finishing the race, never mind winning.

dmeehan

Originally posted by mike65
One thing should be mentioned about fishi, namely
would he have to stop for fuel as he had been going since lap 7? I know the slow safety car laps help save fuel but I doubt he was carrying enough to reach the end myself...

i think fisi was heading for the pits when the safety car was due out, but then when the race was stopped he was already in pit lane

maybe if he haddnt gone into the pits he might have crossed the line before the red flag was out and won the race

i feel sorry for coultard, he pitted about 2 or 3 laps (was it?) before and he had an 18 second lead. I think he was the one who was robbed

GreenHell

Hmm hmm great result for Jordan, great display from the Fish, unlucky, however I won't be surprised if jordan compete for third or fourth in the championship. That would be class.

pickarooney

I couldn't hear the commentary for the last bit of the race, but why were the Jordan team jumping around like they had won the race? Surely they, of all people, should be aware of the rules, and know that Raikkonen had won? Or were they cheering for second place?

jonno

Well the way Williams are going they could easily take third place. Ralf is out of it altogether. Supposedly Patrick Head gave him a bollocking after his poor qualifying session.

On the other hand if he pulls himself together and Montoya continues his early season good form I can't see Jordan getting third spot. Montoya taking DC in the pisses of rain out on the rumble strip was unreal. The lad is class.

I think Jordsan will have a good battle for fourth with Renault.

Praetorian

They thought they had first place. Eddie Jordan wasn't sure, and was trying to calm them all down.

It's a stupid rule anyway! Good driving by Fizzy, in a below average car, with a well below average engine!

Woden

i have to say i don't think that jordan can compete with renault and likes this season, renault have two good drivers, jordan just the one (not saying Firman isn't good but just not as experienced) and dispite williams current form jordan won't be able to beat them either.

jonno

How is it a stupid rule. If they have to stop the race ( which they did need to ) how is the classification determined? Think about it. It's the only fair way of determining the positions fairly IMO. Besides Fisi and Kimi both had to pit again so they both would have finished a position or two down on what the result was.

Anyone notice that HH Frentzen didn't pit at all or was that a display error on RTE's part. They had him down for no stops at all.

GreenHell

It'll prolly work out Jordan coming 5th in the constructors but by gum I wouldn't be a fan if I didn't overrate them.

Woden

well i suppose i'm a fan but trying to be realistic with regards to HH Frentzen pits stop i don't know but i wouldn't think that RTE are responsible for the displays i think everyone gets the same ones.

Washout

The one man you really realy have to feel sorry for is David Coulthard. I think Alonzo and Fisi were due pitstops. had the race gone all the way it would have been a mclaren 1-2.

chernobyl

Originally posted by jonno
Besides Fisi and Kimi both had to pit again so they both would have finished a position or two down on what the result was.

Its not a stoopid rule, quite sensible imo.
I dont think Kimmi needed to pit again but Giancarlo certainly needed another stop.

I dont think Giancarlo pitted on the accident lap but completed one more and then hobbled into the pits and i was under the impression that on the accident lap, Giancarlo crossed the finish line before the red flag dropped thus starting his second lap in the lead of the race but im kinda hazy...

dmeehan

i agree with chernobyl, i thought that was what had happened

when fissi pitted at the end of the accident lap, all i could hear was collins droning on how the monitors say fissi wins

i hate having to listen to collins, what are utv like now without murray walker?

Spacedog

The way Fisi was going on in the press conf' after the race, he believed he'd have won it if the 17 laps were run. there was certinaly enough fuel left in the car for it to go on fire once it had stopped. Deadly race though, Classic F1

irishgeo

but if it went on fire in the pits would the engine not have gone on fire if he had to finish the race.

i thought fisi had pitted on the accident lap and if schmuacher can win a race in the pits surely fisi should have won.

If he completed another lap he surely would have passed the line before they raised the red flag i mean how far ahead of alsono was he and might have lost a few seconds.

da_deadman

At the end of lap 53 Kimi was leading.
During this lap Fisi passed him, at the end of lap 54 Fisi was leading.
Just at the end of lap 55 Alonso crashed and caused the race to end.
Its a pity for Fisi that the rules bring the race back by so much. I would have thought it made more sense to have the results as the last completed lap prior to the red flags being waved.
And I agree with the above comments about Fisi being one of the top drivers. Unlucky to leave Jordan before their best season and join a good team that were in a slump. If he was in a Renault last year and this year he would have won a lot more points and podiums.

dmeehan

At the end of lap 53 Kimi was leading.
During this lap Fisi passed him, at the end of lap 54 Fisi was leading.
Just at the end of lap 55 Alonso crashed and caused the race to end..

well if thats the case then surely Fisi shoud have won??

leeroybrown

The main thing is that despite the disappointment for Fisicella and Jordan they got great coverage for it. By the letter of the law McLaren won.

PR wise I'd say it's probably one of the best second places in the history of F1 ... lots of media exposure. It'll keep the sponsors happy. And under the new rules 8 points is great.

Woden

yes overall after the initial disappointment it was a great result for jordan and i do rate fisi as a great driver who seems to have got a little screwed by flavio i would consider fisi better than trulli, however it seems flavio made a good decision with alonso?

mike65

Originally posted by dmeehan


i hate having to listen to collins, what are utv like now without murray walker?

Peter Collins is so bad I watch ITV! Who have so many ads breaks it ruins the race on occasion. I just flick over
to RTE during the breaks then straight back. The commentry team is 50/50. I like Martin Brundle as he's been there done that James Whats-his-name can be annoying, prone to Collins-like moments of schoolboy
exclamation - "Wooha!" etc


Mike

chernobyl

Im only getting back into the commentary thing after years without it and i watch ITV & Premiere.
The ads breaks are an incredible bitch even just 1 as i have been spolit for the last few years.

Woden

i agree that utv are much better for commentary due to martin brundle, don't like your man james allen really, and rte is such a bore, i like mike65 just switch to rte when the more than ample utv breaks come on.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Woden

ironically i think it was rte up said that it was kimi who won the race going by the rules as opposed to fisi, and utv who seemed to think it was fisi who had won, i don't find rte to bad in relation to figuring out strategy and the like, it just too boring, FFS one of them was a DJ

chernobyl

The big debate is did Fizzi start Lap 56 before the red flags were dropped.



..and if you actually needed proof that he did do a lap 56:

ozt9vdujny3srf

I think collins's exact words were "and the red flag is waved!!! And that means that fisichalla has won...!!!!!"

irishgeo

Originally posted by chernobyl
The big debate is did Fizzi start Lap 56 before the red flags were dropped.



..and if you actually needed proof that he did do a lap 56:

Thats hugely interesting but had he crossed the line before the red flag went up.

I mean if he hadnt he would still have to drive around to get into the pits again.

jonno

I like the rest of ye would love if Fisi had got teh 10 points but I'd say your best bet is to leave it to the FIA to decide. They can look into it and giove him the win later. But personally I think Raikonnen did win it as hard as that is to say (been a Ferrari fan and watching Mclaren pull out such a lead)

Woden

"I think collins's exact words were "and the red flag is waved!!! And that means that fisichalla has won...!!!!!""

sure they probably were but a couple of minutes later they seemed to have a much better grip on the situation then utv who where stilling think fisi had won it i think.

Robbo

The existing result is now in doubt and it looks as if Fisi may be awarded the win. The FIA published this just a few minutes ago. There's to be a meeting on Friday to decide this.

The gist of the press release is as follows:

2003 BRAZILIAN GRAND PRIX

'The FIA has received evidence which suggests that, contrary to the information supplied by the time-keepers at the Brazilian Grand Prix, car no. 11 (Fisichella) had started his 56th lap before the race was stopped. If this proves to be the case, the race classification would be that at the end of the 54th lap and not at the end of the 53rd lap as published.

In accordance with Article 179(b) of the International Sporting Code, the stewards of the Brazilian Grand Prix will re-convene on Friday 11 April at 11.00 hrs at the FIA headquarters in Paris to review the results of the event. All competitors who would be affected by any change to the classification are being invited to attend.'

Dampsquid

The race wasn't stopped because of Webbers accident, cos the safety car was on its way out onto the track. It wasn't until Alonso crashed into the the wheel, that the race was stopped.

That was on the back straight, and Fisichella was 36s ahead of Alonso on the previous lap, therefore he had plenty of time to cross the line before Alonso's accident.

chernobyl

Originally posted by Dampsquid
That was on the back straight, and Fisichella was 36s ahead of Alonso on the previous lap, therefore he had plenty of time to cross the line before Alonso's accident.

It was actually on the main straight and Fissi was only a few seconds ahead of Alonso.

As you can see here, there is only 7 (approx) seconds between them and this is in real time.




Last shot of Fissi...



First of Alonso...

jonno

Looks from that like Kimi will keep his ten points.

irishgeo

but your forgetting how long it took for the red flag to actually go up. i mean was it 5 seconds later. i dunno but id say they will figure it out. i mean surely there was a press reporter who has a picture to sort it all out.

irishman_abroad

Looks like he may get his win yet

Stewards Enquiry

TomTom

It was just on the news and they seem to be confident the fisi will get the win.

dmeehan

maybe we'll have to change the name of this thread to "kimi was robbed":D

Woden

have to say i'm all a bit confused now about whats going on, times, laps etc. anyone want to accurately sum it up?