North Korea says it would win nuclear war

PH01

Glad to see that the Cold War isn't totally over. And it sounds like somebody os spoiling for a fight?

North Korea says it would win nuclear war
Last updated: 17-02-03, 06:36

North Korea says victory would be certain for the communist state in any nuclear war with the United States thanks to Pyongyang's "army-first" political system.

"Victory in a nuclear conflict will be ours and the red flag of army-first politics will flutter ever more vigorously," state radio said, reported by South Korea's Yonhap news agency.

"Our victory is certain and the future ever more radiant," it said, touting the dominance of the army in the world's most heavily militarised society.

The million-strong Korean People's Army is the world's fifth-largest, with nearly one in 20 North Koreans in uniform and spending on defence consuming as much as a quarter of the impoverished state's annual budget.

War warnings and claims that the United States is poised to attack North Korea have been almost daily fare in Pyongyang official media, which have increased their rhetoric since a nuclear crisis erupted last year.

The standoff over North Korea's suspected nuclear programme has been simmering since October, when Washington said Pyongyang had admitted to pursuing a programme to enrich uranium in violation of major international treaty commitments.

Since then, North Korea has expelled UN nuclear inspectors and withdrawn from the treaty which aims to curb the spread of nuclear weapons and said it was ready to restart a mothballed reactor capable of producing plutonium for bombs.

Pyongyang has insisted that it only intends to produce electricity for its decrepit economy and that the nuclear row is a bilateral dispute with Washington that can only be solved through two-way talks leading to a non-aggression treaty.

pickarooney

Well, North Korea officially won WW2 single-handedly if you believe the propaganda, so beating America should be easy-peasy.

whats the frequency of North korean State Radio, it sounds good, I want to pre set it on my car Radio:rolleyes:
mm

daveirl

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Mercury_Tilt

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pickarooney

Was it holidays in the axis of evil? Watched the second episode tonight and Libya seems like paradise in comparison.

therecklessone

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
I can’t remember the TV show on the other night... but it’s unreal. You want to see the library

Was that the library where every book was by the Dear Leader? Quality TV. And in a totally out of place, non-pc statement, was it just me, or are North Korean women hot? At least the few that I saw...

monument

Its not two hard to believe that they believe the North Korean goverments propaganda as half the world believe The White House.

New press release - Nobody in the White House has or ever had any thing to do with the Oil business**


** = there was nobody there today, it was a bank holiday in the US.

daveirl

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davej

see that's just absurd. I don't like the American's line on things and yes they do have propaganda but to compare the level of propaganda from America to the propaganda from North Korea is just stupid.

Or maybe American propaganda is so powerful that you don't even realise it. There is no monopoly on truth. Did you ever stop to consider that the North Korean people might think that you are the one who's being fooled by American propaganda? What makes them wrong and you right?

davej

War warnings and claims that the United States is poised to attack North Korea have been almost daily fare

well considering that the US keeps troops in South Korea, this statement does have some bearing, even if N.Korea has been paranoid in the extreme in the past.

North Korea says victory would be certain for the communist state in any nuclear war with the United States

strange since i think everyone realises that there are no victors in a nuclear war. I'm just hopeful that the US realises this, when they really consider invading N.Korea.

daveirl

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therecklessone

Originally posted by klaz

strange since i think everyone realises that there are no victors in a nuclear war. I'm just hopeful that the US realises this, when they really consider invading N.Korea.

I think that doctrines been revised. All depends on how many nukes are used, and on who...

MAD ain't what it used to be.

Mercury_Tilt

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sceptre

North Korea says victory would be certain for the communist state in any nuclear war with the United States

If by that they mean "in a world without Japanese people but ruling a country as habitable as the moon's surface", I guess they're right. Go Pyongyang (just picture me flapping a flag in the breeze). Dear (Fearless) Leader obviously knows what he's at when he's not watching movies.

think that doctrines been revised. All depends on how many nukes are used, and on who...

Its all theory. Theres never been a nuclear war, so all they're doing is throwing math equations around in the air (or letting a computer do it for them). They don't KNOW the effect of their nuclear weapons when used more than once at a time.

aine

God almighty how can you be so Anti-American as to think that their propaganda is as bad as the Koreans.

the White House could not try to convince us that the Pres was God because we live in a very logical and even more cynical society, they do how ever pump us with propaganda. A specific spin is put on a news story to give such and such an impression etc, fair enough its not as blatant as the North Korean kind but its every bit as 'bad'

There is no "as bad" dave. there is only propaganda.

bonkey

Originally posted by daveirl
God almighty how can you be so Anti-American as to think that their propaganda is as bad as the Koreans.

Please justify or apologise for the use of the term Anti-American here.

I'm fed up with people ignoring repeated requests to stop bandying around such terms to try and score emotive points.

Pointing out that the US is equally engaged in propaganda is not anti-American.

Pointing out that propaganda is propaganda, regardless of the source, is not Anti-American.


Now - either show why this term does reasonably apply to davej, or withdraw it, because I've had enough of this crap where the refular posters seem to feel that the various warnings issued by the mods doesnt seem to apply to them for some reason.

jc

Originally posted by davej
Or maybe American propaganda is so powerful that you don't even realise it. There is no monopoly on truth. Did you ever stop to consider that the North Korean people might think that you are the one who's being fooled by American propaganda? What makes them wrong and you right?

davej

The more common term for propaganda in the west, and more particularily in the UK, USA and Ireland is spin .

I've never heard a debate anywhere where one side puts across their opponents viewpoint aswell .
It is expected that one side of a story is told, and the other side is argued against.

What comes out of North Korea though is mostly rubbish, I wouldn't even give it the term propaganda as that would be too good for it.
mm

Lennoxschips

Theres never been a nuclear war

I've a friend in Nagasaki that might disagree with you...

What comes out of North Korea though is mostly rubbish, I wouldn't even give it the term propaganda as that would be too good for it.

The effectiveness of propaganda is shown ,by how the targets receive it. The Propaganda for N.Korea is targeted at the people, and they seem to believe it. I don't really think they care too much as to whether we believe it, or not.

Theres never been a nuclear war

I've a friend in Nagasaki that might disagree with you...

not true. There have been two nuclear weapons dropped. But weapons of nuclear capabilities have been "improved" in the 6 decades since, and their effectiveness has never been totally tested. Also when Japan was hit, only one type of bomb was in use, nowadays there are many types all of which have different yields, fallouts etc. Nobody truely knows, for real, how effective these weapons are, or the afteraffects. Its been theorised, but actual evidence/experiences none.

Also when Japan was hit, only one side had the nukes. If the US goes after N.Korea, they have to face being hit back.

monument

Originally posted by daveirl
see that's just absurd. I don't like the American's line on things and yes they do have propaganda but to compare the level of propaganda from America to the propaganda from North Korea is just stupid.

I really don’t thing comparing America propaganda to North Korea propaganda is stupid, America has just done a better job at propaganda in the long term.

And to make it clear I'm NOT Anti-American. However, I’m anti bomb people to ****.

I think Mercury Tilt also answers your question...

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
Thre is no "as bad" dave. there is only propaganda.

have you learned nothing?

bonkey

Originally posted by klaz
Also when Japan was hit, only one type of bomb was in use,

Two, technically. The designs of the two bombs were somewhat different.

Having been the pedant, though, I would agree that there has never been a nuclear war, to the extent that there has never been a nuclear exchange, nor could one summarise WW2 as a nuclear war.

jc

Éomer of Rohan

Also being the pedant lol I would like to agree with Bonkey and then say that actually every single nuclear weapon in existence has been tested (other than those in N. Korea since we don't know if the exist yet there are claims they do and this is unsubstantiated due to the lack of Nuclear Tests). As I was saying everything from the SS-20 to the Minuteman III and Polaris have been tested.

I would also like to say this - in a nuclear war there is now winner and no loser - just a lot of dead people. Yes, the US has the capability to annihilate the entire country of North Korea BUT they wont - simply because they know that the fallout would devastate Russia, China, Japan, South Korea, Indo China, India and some estimates even for a medium yield hydrogen bomb (for proof of this check out the UK FCO website) have stated that the fallout would even have an impact on Australia and the Hawaiian Islands. North Korea would strike at the US if their country was invaded but can anyone see them doing so otherwise, realistically? If the US invaded North Korea then no offence to all you pacifists but I think NK should blow the bastards to hell - it is about time that someone showed the Americans when to stop bullying nations that they have put through 50 years of economic sanctions and then, just when things were looking brighter (I refer to the 1994 Agreement, through which the US proposed to normalise relations between NKPR, ROK and the US) the US simply ignored the NOrth Koreans forcing them in 1998 to resume a programme that was ultimately the only hope to defend their country despite having the 5th largest army in the world.
It is not right that people should die as a result of war BUT a nuke fired at San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle etc might be the ONLY thing that the American Gov't listen to. I want to stress this point; I ABHOR VIOLENCE AND CIVILIAN DEATHS before I get hit with a rant about being immoral etc but can anyone say that the Americans have listened to reason in the past? The have acted with impunity every time they used their military the result being the loss of millions of lives since 1945 (I don't even need to cite support for this - you can find it on any site relevent to the wars that America has engaged in). The UN can't stop them. Europe won't stop them - maybe North Korea will - and maybe it is fitting that one of the small countries, bullied over the years, does this. Now please, take your best shot.

Lennoxschips

I would also like to say this - in a nuclear war there is now winner and no loser - just a lot of dead people. Yes, the US has the capability to annihilate the entire country of North Korea BUT they wont - simply because they know that the fallout would devastate Russia, China, Japan, South Korea, Indo China, India and some estimates even for a medium yield hydrogen bomb (for proof of this check out the UK FCO website) have stated that the fallout would even have an impact on Australia and the Hawaiian Islands

Makes you wonder if all those tests in the 1950s en 60s created long-term health problems in society that are yet to surface...

Nagilum

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan
If the US invaded North Korea then no offence to all you pacifists but I think NK should blow the bastards to hell - it is about time that someone showed the Americans when to stop bullying nations that they have put through 50 years of economic sanctions and ...<snip>
a nuke fired at San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle etc might be the ONLY thing that the American Gov't listen to. ... <snip> ... The UN can't stop them. Europe won't stop them - maybe North Korea will - and maybe it is fitting that one of the small countries, bullied over the years, does this.

This prevalent attitude is exactly why the US needed to withdraw from the ABM treaty. There are a lot of people out there, even in the western world, that would love nothing more than to see the US get nuked. :rolleyes:

mike65

Originally posted by Lennoxschips
Makes you wonder if all those tests in the 1950s en 60s created long-term health problems in society that are yet to surface...

They have done, many cases of cancers and other radiation related condidtions effecting those who worked on nulcear bomb tests and those who lived in areas like the Austrailian outback, some Pacific islands....

http://www.counterpunch.org/pipermail/counterpunch-list/2001-June/009879.html

Mike.

daveirl

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America is a nation that lives and breathes Media. Television, radio, and the Internet are all mediums that America uses within its own borders for multiple uses. It is because of this that Propaganda can be thrown at America. Its the one way to totally reach their nation, and the American government uses that to the hilt. Watch most American TV Stations, and you'll wonder how the same story told in Europe can sound so different.

But hey, i could be totally wrong, and it could be just us Europeans that's being hit by propaganda.

Mr.Applepie

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
Thre is no "as bad" dave. there is only propaganda.

have you learned nothing?

Too much anti-american propaganda me thinks.

The million-strong Korean People's Army is the world's fifth-largest

Iraq had the 5th largest army in the world in 1990

Éomer of Rohan

There are too many accusations of 'anti americanisms' flying around here. I am not anti american. I know many people from America and they are decent people appalled at what their country has done - those that know about history outside of internal US history which to back up a point made earlier about propaganda is only a few of them. I have genuine greivances against the US for their behavious since the massacre of wounded knee onwards thus my dislike is for the American government - a government which is undemocratic (demos = people kratien = rule NOT 'select few rule in place of many' or 'with the backing of many' or 'majority rules') and has behaved despicably in foreign affairs - and if someone really wants to try me I will post up a list off every single grievance I have with the US and their foreign policy.
As to the moron (and I apolgise but I am angry here) who said the US has the right to withdraw from an international treaty like the 1972 ABM treaty I say this; it will start an arms race which will make ABM irrelevent and a waste of money which could have been better spent on the social sevices and libraries that Dubya has closed over the last number of years and also it would set a dangerous precedent - it the US unilaterally withdraws, what right have they to expect any other country to abide by international agreements with them? The furore at the minute is North Korea's breach of the 1994 agreement with the US and ROK not to develop nuclear weapons.
And speaking of breaking treaties, how can we excuse the death knell that Bush unilaterally struck to the Kyoto Accords?? In a country of 44,000,000 out of 280,000,000 people are functional illiterates, how can we trust them to exercise their power through their votes (esp when over half the electorate don't turn out) in a manner that befits the most scientifically and economically advanced nation? We can not.

Nagilum

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan

As to the moron (and I apolgise but I am angry here) who said the US has the right to withdraw from an international treaty like the 1972 ABM treaty I say this; it will start an arms race which will make ABM irrelevent and a waste of money which could have been better spent on the social sevices and libraries that Dubya has closed over the last number of years and also it would set a dangerous precedent - it the US unilaterally withdraws, what right have they to expect any other country to abide by international agreements with them? The furore at the minute is North Korea's breach of the 1994 agreement with the US and ROK not to develop nuclear weapons.

Well, given the vehement nature of your views on the US, I'd say ABM looks like a pretty good investment from this side of the atlantic. I certainly wouldn't want any missiles falling into your hands. God forbid we wouldn't give enough money to one of your pet causes or something.

// end facetious (for the thick )

Iraq had the 5th largest army in the world in 1990

So? what was it comprised of? We live in an age where the power of the military is directly related to the "gadgets" they have, or how modern they are. Iraq may have had the 5th largest army, but it was only the special brigades that were equipped to todays standards, the rest had weapons from vietnam,Korea, and yes, WW2.

There are too many accusations of 'anti americanisms' flying around here.

I agree.

davej

Iraq had the 5th largest army in the world in 1990

This means very little in modern warfare. You are better off looking at annual military budget and arms imports and exports for an indicator of military might.

The US, for example, spends more money on their military budget per year than the combined budget of the next 25 countries beneath it. (i.e. all the NATO countries + Russia, China and the "Axis of Evil" countries added together).

how can you be so Anti-American as to think that their propaganda is as bad as the Koreans.

I do not consider myself anti-American. However, if I feel someone is making a statement that over-simplifies or generalises the issue, I will be quick to point it out.

davej