Classic stuff....

mayhem#

Nicked from a newsgroup:

> I'm trying to understand American foreign policy. It's like
> oil-painting on a trampoline, but makes less sense. I'm not sure
> anybody could do it-not even if you took St. Augustine and Jimmy the
> Greek and Carl Friedrichs Gauss and wired them together in parallel.
>
> It seems that we're going to blow up Iraq. Some folk will call it a
> war, but it'll be more like drowning a litter of puppies. Iraq is a
> primitive country and hasn't got a chance. That's convenient, and lots
> of fun, but it ain't war.
>
> Now, understand: I'm patriotic, and believe in blowing up as many
> people as possible, wherever we can find them. But.why Iraq? It's
> mysterious. Sure, Hussein is a good, serviceable, every-day sort of
> monster and ought to be shot. So are about half the rulers in the
> world. Why this one? Bobby Mugabe needs it more, I reckon. Have we
> thought about Zaire?
>
> Explain it to me. A ratpack of Saudis blew up New York, so we're going
> to wreck Iraq. We're going to do it because Hussein has Weapons of
> Mass Destruction, except that he doesn't, as far as anyone can tell.
> The more he doesn't have them, the more we want to blow him up because
> he does, or doesn't, or would if he did. Maybe.
>
> I don't understand Weapons of Mass Destruction either. Actually, I do.
> They're a PR package, nice ribbon, pretty wrapping paper, but with
> nothing inside, to make it sound like we have a reason for attacking.
> Americans fortunately don't distinguish between a bumper sticker and a
> policy.
>
> Now, if Iraq had nuclear weapons, blowing them up might be reasonable.
> But it doesn't. I don't care whether it has chemical weapons, and if
> it has smallpox, bombing won't help. So why do it? To grab the oil?
> Make the world safe for Israel? Historical codpiece for George? What's
> the scam, really?
>
> It never stops. We're always bombing, invading, meddling, or
> embargoing. Nobody else does. Grenada, the Philippines, Panama,
> Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan twice, Laos, Lebanon twice, Iraq almost
> twice, Yemen, Angola, Kosovo, Cuba, Libya. We're maybe about to get
> into a war with North Korea. In fact we have troops there as a
> tripwire, to be sure we get involved. What could be a better plan?
>
> Why? Why always us? Can't we just, you know, spend an occasional
> Saturday night at home? North Korea is South Korea's problem, not
> ours, and South Korea is an industrial power. If it wants to defend
> itself, fine. If it doesn't, I don't care. Is Japan upset about North
> Korea? Then let Japan do something about it. Why are we always the
> International Mother?
>
> What possible reason did we have for bombing Yugoslavia? Last I heard,
> Yugoslavia was in Europe. Granted, I haven't looked for a while. Maybe
> it moved to Mississippi or the outskirts of Detroit. Continental drift
> is like that. But if it's in Europe, I say it's Europe's problem. Let
> them bomb Yugoslavia till it squeaks. Or not. Why do I care? It's time
> Europe learned to diaper itself.
>
> For that matter, why do we have troops in Europe? I don't get it. NATO
> was supposed to fight the Soviet Union, I thought, which we don't have
> one of.
>
> Could we stop meddling for even a week? We're in Colombia and Mexico
> and Peru and God knows where because these folk work in the drug
> trade, and we have A Drug Problem. We have a drug problem because
> Americans want drugs. It's not Colombia's problem. It's our problem.
> Why don't we leave Colombia the hell alone?
>
> Think about it. Suppose a Colombian crept up to you in a raincoat,
> peering around furtively, and whispered, "Hey, Meester, wanna buy some
> really good polio virus? Great stuff. You'll never walk again. Iron
> lung, guaranteed. Five bucks."
>
> You would probably indicate that you didn't really need any polio just
> now. The Colombian would run off and starve, or jump his visa and get
> a job in construction. You can't sell what people won't buy. It's an
> economic law. (Unless you're the federal government, which consists of
> the compulsory sale of unwanted services. But Colombia isn't.)
>
> Americans love drugs. Middle-schoolers through assisted living, black,
> white, blue collar, guttural lawyers in pricey turtle-neck sweaters,
> funny-looking urbanites, suburbanites with the little bag in the
> closet, country boys cutting ditchweed, growing hydroponic, cooking
> that righteous crank.
>
> It's one of the biggest businesses in America. We'll pay any price,
> risk jail, do anything for our drugs. The cartel is just a service
> industry. Half the country wants them, and the other half doesn't have
> to take them. Why do we expect other countries to let us bomb their
> peasants to solve our problem?
>
> If we have to poke our nose everywhere, could we at least stop being
> the Moral Nanny? Somebody said (me, actually) that the Brits fight for
> empire, the French for la gloire de la France, the Russians to steal
> watches from the wounded, and the Americans for mommyish moral causes.
> Spare me.
>
> It's embarrassing. Europe fought world wars to get the Germans off its
> back. We fought The War to End All War, and then to Make the World
> Safe for Democracy. The Soviet Union was the Evil Empire, and now Iraq
> and Korea are the Axes of Evil. (Whether this refers to malintentioned
> hatchets or indicates that the White House doesn't know that points
> can't be lines is
> unclear.) I don't want to be a Manichean baby-sitter.
>
> Americans may need to get out more. I recently heard that ferret-like
> little man in the White House trying to give a speech about Iraq and
> how we're going to liberate Iraqis and it's for their own good and
> they ought to welcome us like rich relatives bringing free stuff. Any
> day now. Can't we put George back into his storage box in Roswell?
> Last time we were in Iraq, we killed 125,000 of their men, or some
> other wholesome number, wrecked the country, set up an embargo that
> starved 100,000 of their children to death, and established an aerial
> occupation of lots of their country.
>
> But they're going to welcome us because George has good intentions.
> We're from the government, and we're here to help you..
>
> Why are we embargoing Cuba? When the Soviets wanted to put runways and
> missiles there, it made sense. Now we're making life miserable for
> perfectly decent Cubans because we don't like that tiresome gas bag
> with the beard. Yes, I know. We're rally doing it because Castro runs
> an oppressive communist tyranny. Like China, with whom we trade like
> starving encyclopedia salesmen. Consistency and churchy moralism go so
> well together.
>
> I give up. It's beyond me.
>
>
>

---

>

---

> ----
>
> ©Fred Reed 2003

Bunny

This guy obviously isn't a patriot and if you're not with us then you are against us.

This is an example of a true american patriot - http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=propaganda_matrix

mayhem#

Is it just me or do you generally make no sense whatsoever?

E.

dathi1

Brilliant!!

yellum

Good alright

azezil

why him and why should they do it, they put him their, its their responsiblilty to remove the monster.

mayhem#

Originally posted by azezil
why him and why should they do it, they put him their, its their responsiblilty to remove the monster.

And replace him with what?
Another puppet government?

E.

Gordon

Fred Reed for the next US presidency!

Bunny

Originally posted by mayhem#
Is it just me or do you generally make no sense whatsoever?

E.

You're right its just you.

azezil

Originally posted by mayhem#
And replace him with what?
Another puppet government?

E.

better than living under trade sanctions and the whims of a mad man

mayhem#

1 ) leave a war half finished (with thousands of people dead).
2) impose sanctions leaving thousands more dead.
3) start another war killing loads more.

Yes, that makes sense doen'st it?!

E.

azezil

Mistakes were made they now have an opertunity to make things right. Yes thousands will die, but for the greater good.

mayhem#

And what might that "greater good" be then?

E.

azezil

A democratic state freed from an opressive dictator

mayhem#

Gullible doesn't even come close.
I presume you believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny too then?

E

azezil

He just as bad, if not worse than hitler, he needs to go!

mayhem#

But is the US the best party to do so?

E.

Washout

He is just as bad, if not worse than hitler??????

How can you pass that kind of judgement down on a man you know vaguely little about.....Back statements like that up with proof!

I agree he is bad for Iraq but the whole point of Americas "war" is for their own self interests NOT to protect the rest of the world however well they may like to pretend!

azezil

i'm going on what i've heard from interviews with iraqi people.

As for the US well i don't know, its clear they're more interested int he oil than human rights, but lets face it all the UN do is sit around talking.

Pompey Magnus

Originally posted by azezil
He just as bad, if not worse than hitler, he needs to go!

"Hitler conquered all of Europe from the Arctic to the Aegean and from the Atlantic to Stalingrad. And Saddam? He invaded Kuwait, a sandbox half the size of Denmark, and got tossed out after a 100-hour ground war. His country has been overflown 40,000 times by U.S. and British planes and he has not been able to shoot a single plane down. He has no navy, a fourth-rate air force, a shrunken, demoralized army. His economy is not 1 percent of ours."

From none other than Pat Buchanan, yes PAT BUCHANAN,!!!!!

full text here.

azezil

*sigh* i ment from a humanitarian point of view :rolleyes:

Pompey Magnus

Originally posted by azezil
i'm going on what i've heard from interviews with iraqi people.

have you interviwed these iraqis or is it the state fed interviews you are refering to? Like in Gulf War 1, I'm sure you heard of the infamous Nayirah interview, the 15 yr old Kuwaiti girl telling the world of Iraqis throwing 312 premature babies into the street from their incubators. Q

yossarin

why him and why should they do it, they put him their, its their responsiblilty to remove the monster.

replace who now ?

George W. or Saddam ?

HJ Simpson

America only want oil they are trying to use Bin Ladens statement as proof that Sadam is linked to Al Queda even though he hates Muslim fundamentalists and fought them in Kuwait

Pompey Magnus

Sry, Quoted to death by bush it turned out to be nothing but lies from a kuwaiti embassadors daughtor.
I'm not saying Saddam isn't bad, just don't base everyting you thing on what the media feed you!

Carnate

Does it really matter.

the for and against crowd, bottom line is that either way there will be a war, the point is will it be in Iraq or in the States?

Think about it, the Allies attack Iraq, and bin whats his face does America/Britain..


Either way a lot of people are going to die, and i think for me


THATS THE POINT!

Smiler

It's the Oil.......Surprise!
But not the way you though...

I found this and many more like it on the web.......what do ya think. Has anyone else heard of this??? Has anyone posted it before??


Not being an economist, but intrigued by the buried news that Iraq linked its oil trade to the euro at the expense of the dollar in late 2000, I looked around for some truth to this story. Sure enough, in October of 2000 the UN opened an Iraq account in euro, after Iraq had indicated that it would cut its oil supply if this was not done. (The mere threat resulted in soaring oil prices, as Iraq accounts for 5% of the world's supply.) At the time, the euro was weak in relation to the dollar, and the move cost Iraq an estimated $270 million. Hussein, however, had proclaimed the dollar an enemy currency, and switched all trade to the euro through the UN escrow account. Jordan quickly joined Iraq and announced that its non-UN sanctioned trade with Iraq would be in euro, or another European currency. Iran has mumbled about the same move.

On January 15 this year, upon the announcement that 11 empty warheads had been found by the UN inspectors, oil prices rose to a two-year high, with the fear of war looming. At the same time, the dollar hit a three-year low against the euro, weighing in at $1.06 (versus $0.82 back in 2000). If more countries decided to fix their oil price against the euro and accept payments in euro, the dollar's role as the world reserve currency would be seriously threatened, there would be a flight from the dollar, long-term asset portfolios would move toward the euro, the cost of the US trade deficit would loom, and the stock market would seriously deflate along with the dollar -- together they would most likely collapse.

There are many complex angles to report on this, and nowhere did I find an article that covered it in detail, but suffice to say that the US imports 59% of its oil, that a dollar crash in the current climate would effectively be the end of the US as we know it, and that a long-term rise in oil prices would quickly wipe out reserves, with roughly the same effect.

I think the euro link, even if it is somewhat misconstrued from my non-economist point of view, brings home a useful perspective on "Showdown Iraq."

azezil

Originally posted by spandauballet
have you interviwed these iraqis or is it the state fed interviews you are refering to? Like in Gulf War 1, I'm sure you heard of the infamous Nayirah interview, the 15 yr old Kuwaiti girl telling the world of Iraqis throwing 312 premature babies into the street from their incubators. Q

Late Late show actually...

mayhem#

Originally posted by azezil
Late Late show actually...

I rest my case...

E.

Victor

Originally posted by Smiler
I found this and many more like it on the web.......what do ya think. Has anyone else heard of this??? Has anyone posted it before??

Can you post a link? Is it http://thespleen.com/culture/nideaquinidealla/ ?

I don't think this has been any real part in the decline in the value of the dollar - it has much more to do with Enron, the dotcom crash, declining stock markets (more than US$200bn taken out of NYSE) September 11th and a stagnant American economy.