Who owns the bandwidth in ireland

LegacyUser

I keep on seeing these comment about the price of bandwidth, maybe if you hosting a website, but not if your eircum, they have deals to use the international conectivity that we the tax payer built(and persume me still own)
they have deals to use the networks in europe,

SO the only real problem i can see with bandwidth is the local stuff, who owns the all the most bandwidth in ireland, eircum.

am i right in thinking this is the situation or is it something else, im trying to figure out why theres talk about haveing to cap because of coast of bandwidth, when i allways persumed eircum set the prices, or most of them,

LegacyUser

You keep talking about 'Deals' they have with European bandwidth.

Surely you dont think these deals dont cost anything? If you do, show some information about it.

If <insert isp here> build an undersea cable to england, they still need to plug it into someones network over there, and this costs money, both in terms of connection and quite possibly bandwidth usage.

LegacyUser

but thats my point exactly, they have service deals to connect to networks in UK
i dont know names a place but this is the way things work,
i know interconnection coast money, be it cant be extreme, because uk isp use the same network and dont have to cap,

this leads me to believe the bandwidth coast are a local thing, with in ireland, Well who exactly owes the irish networks

[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 25-07-2001).]

dahamsta

They also have to pay for the upkeep of their own local network, and believe me, networks aren't cheap. Particularly when you're the incumbent with an *obligation* to supply service.

Look Gladiator, it's as simple as this - if you put someone on the Internet, most of their browsing is going to be internationally. If they browse internationally, the traffic is going to leave Ireland. If the traffic is leaving Ireland, you have to peer with the backbone. If you have to peer with the backbone, you have to pay the owner of the pipe a hefty fee. Simple as that.

Eircom only own their own network, and even that is questionable. If we follow your logic, we'll all be browsing Irish sites every day, and only sending email within Ireland. No .com, .net, .org or any other ccTLD other than .ie in any protocol. No IP addresses outside blocks assigned to Ireland. That'd be pretty rubbish, wouldn't it?

adam

dahamsta

1) Some UK ISP's do cap.
2) The UK is a much bigger market than us. They can have lower profit margins.
3) You have to get to the UK before you can peer with them. Fibre costs a lot of money.

adam

LegacyUser

what im saying is thats the same for all isp everywere, and bandwidth isnt as pricey, this leads me to believe eircum tack on a large tariff as the data pass through its network,
i dont know thats why im asking

LegacyUser

Just so you know, many ISP's over europe cap their adsl service. I have a cpl of friends in belgium capped at 12gb a month.

Its not just ireland, its not just eircom (no need to be over derogotory).
As adam said, these peering connects cost a lot, as does the fiber to get there. Ireland doesnt have the userbase that other countries have, thus less people on the net, thus less revenue for isp's, thus less money to spend on large international pipes.

It really is that simple you know.

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
that we the tax payer built(and persume me still own)
</font>

Nope, sorry. Eircom got that in the privatisation. Plus the resonsibility of maintaining it. Ireland Inc. has a share in the pipe that goes into the CityWest Park from which they get a nice little income. (Surprise! its not free to eircom, esat, et al.)
But a lot of the new pipe that arrived with the internet revolution was provided by international companies and they charge.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
they have deals to use the networks in europe,
</font>

Yes but if Irish throughput goes up, so does the cost of connecting to those networks.
Its not a fixed price.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
SO the only real problem i can see with bandwidth is the local stuff, who owns the all the most bandwidth in ireland, eircum.
</font>

No. Bandwidth out of Ireland also costs. More bandwidth, more cost. That cost inevitably ends up in customer bills, one way or another.

Caps are common in America too. At least one site I visit regularly goes off the air when they exceed their traffic limit.

LegacyUser

well im sure the prices in those countries reflect the fact its capped,

anyway thanks for the info

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dahamsta:
1) Some UK ISP's do cap.
2) The UK is a much bigger market than us. They can have lower profit margins.
3) You have to get to the UK before you can peer with them. Fibre costs a lot of money.

adam</font>

You could argue that Ireland and the UK are, in many ways, part of the same market. As such, if Eircom got their act together, UK ISPs could offer broadband and flat rate services in the Republic. Without charging any more than they do in the UK.

This would mean that packages like the one below (click on link) could be available here in the Republic. I see no reason why this shouldn't be possible.

http://www.freeserve.com/time/anytime/

[This message has been edited by Urban Weigl (edited 30-07-2001).]

LegacyUser

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[This message has been edited by Urban Weigl (edited 30-07-2001).]

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Urban Weigl:
You could argue that Ireland and the UK are, in many ways, part of the same market. </font>

What? In much the same way as you could argue that Japan and Belgium are the same country if you had had enough alcohol . Ireland and the UK are two seperate countries, with very different market profiles and under different regulatory regimes. The European regulatory regime seems to leave lots open to interpretation and application, so in reality we can look at implementation in any EU country to identify where we could/should be heading.

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by hmmm:
What? In much the same way as you could argue that Japan and Belgium are the same country if you had had enough alcohol . Ireland and the UK are two seperate countries, with very different market profiles and under different regulatory regimes. The European regulatory regime seems to leave lots open to interpretation and application, so in reality we can look at implementation in any EU country to identify where we could/should be heading.</font>

Many companies that operate in the UK and NI also operate in the Republic. We trade a lot with the UK. We were once part of the UK. Belgium and Japan are ENTIRELY different. To be frank, your post doesn't seem very coherent (nothing personal).

LegacyUser

Additionally, Ireland and the UK are both members of the European Union. Japan isn't (I haven't missed Japan joining the EU, have I?)

LegacyUser

he has a point, some times i wonder why prices have to dubble or triple down here from the north,
take ntl cable, i know a guy with in in belfast and he pays £20 a month for the exact same cable internet people in dublin pay £50 for,

Eircom provide ADSL in belfast, but not here,
why?

bkehoe

I agreee, we're more alike than different. We even get the same wet weather & the range of products, e.t.c. being sold here is basically the same as the UK (except internet) including tv e.g. Sky...

LegacyUser

Questions:

1. At the international level, is bandwidth into the country expensive relative to other European countries?
2. How is this priced i.e. bandwidth (capacity), throughput or some combination of both?
3. To what extent is the subsidised connectivity used? (Global Crossing, 360Networks etc.)
4. Is Ireland getting a good deal on international bandwidth?
5. How expensive is bandwidth/throuput at the local level (say for a company running a web server) relative to other European contries?
6. How is this local connectivity charged: bandwidth (capacity) or throughput?
7. Who are the suppliers of a) leased-lines, b) bandwidth to the internet?

Kix

Well certainly many interational companies view the UK and Ireland as a unit for marketing purposes. With a common language (for the most part) and very similar cultural influences it's not an unfair assumption. Ireland isn't that much more different from England than, say, Scotland is from England.

K